Theseus

Yes, I have done that with several TBs and coins - drop by my cache for a visit and post a note with the trackables passing through. Works like a charm.

Logically I agree that the responsibility absolutely lies with the finder. Legally, of course, may be different. [Aside] A few years back I served on a jury and someone mentioned a liability case where a drunk driver veered off the road, hit a sign, and was injured. The *driver* sued the town - not on the grounds that the sign was in an unsafe location per se, but on the grounds that the sign was in an unsafe location for someone who was driving while drunk. His argument concluded that the town should acknowledge that people drive drunk and place its signs accordingly. The driver won damages. While this is completely absurd, I'm sure there are plenty of worse examples (hmm, may make for an interesting Off Topic thread). I bet 100 out of 100 rational people would have said there was no way the driver would win. But he did. Again, don't confuse logic with the law. [/Aside]

Welcome to geocaching and welcome to the forums. The Discover option was added when geocoins were introduced (I think) and was designed to enable a cacher to reflect that they had seen a particular coin without moving it. Some cachers will now discover a TB for the same purpose. Opinions vary on discovering. I, for one, think it is silly. Either I move a TB/geocoin, in which case I log, or I don't, in which case I don't log. I think I'm in the minority, though. I'm sure others will chime in.

I would say not expected nor required but it IS encouraged. One cacher's opinion. I don't know what game you are playing, but it isn't the same one as me. If an item is a traveller, then it isn't a trade item. If an item is a trade item, it isn't a traveller. Some signature items specify that they can be travellers OR trade items. (but those are generally tracked on other sites, not geocaching.com) For those, I would leave something if I was intended on keeping it for my collection. If I was just planning on moving it, then I wouldn't feel bad at all leaving nothing. Of course, it is always nice if you leave something when you aren't taking anything, but I wouldn't say that it is encouraged. Appreciated might be a better word to use. I may have misunderstood - I meant if you take a TB/coin it is nice to leave a TB/coin - not take a TB and leave a non-trackable trade item. Re-reading the thread that's not what is being discussed. And either way I will agree that "appreciated" is more accurate than "encouraged".

Snoogans, have you snarfed while reading this yet? As in inadvertently snorted liquid? On topic: um, well, hard as I try I can't even begin to insert myself into this exchange. But I can't stop reading... Carry on.

I would say not expected nor required but it IS encouraged. One cacher's opinion.

Easy - Snoogans and flask. This will crack me up for the rest of the day.

I give you credit for being honest, but this is the biggest problem problem with coins anymore; People coming in here without any intent to be a participant, but rather a saleman. Sorry but regardless of cool your coins may be, I won't buy a single one. I prefer to save my money for those who are in this for the fun not the greed. Good luck though. Just to provide another opinion - I don't think there is anything wrong with this at all. I personally welcome all sellers whether they are cachers, coin sellers, or otherwise. I would also suggest that Mr. John is a participant - he finds caches. The fact that he doesn't trade coins is completely meaningless, for me. Lastly, I don't know that selling coins equates with greed. I suppose at times it may but there are also times when someone thinks up a neat design, thinks the caching world may enjoy it, thinks he'll add a couple bucks profit to make it worth his while, and sells the coin. More power to him. I realize we won't agree on this and that is okay. On topic: cool coin.

Easily the most bizarre thread I've read in a long time. On topic, er, I agree with this comment...

Unfortunately, my friend, that ship has sailed. Hopefully you'll start seeing them in nearby caches as for the most part they have been received and placed (mine arrived late June).

Yes, but it is strange that yellow jeep TBs, white jeep TBs, and green jeep TBs show up with their own icons even if there are geocoins in the cache but red jeep TB icons do not. As "discussed" here (I needed quotes because if I'm the only poster to the thread I'm not sure it can be labeled a discussion... )

I always send an acknowledgement email because I'm a better person than those who don't I know I appreciate an email back when I send one to a fellow cacher.

On a semi-related note, I've always wondered what the default ordering is. It's not by name, mileage, location, distance, tracking number or any other descriptor I can think of. It's a real head scratcher (I say this because I think it will prompt someone to say "hey, doofus, it's sorted by xxxxx").

Selective?? Yes, I suppose picky fits the bill.

I am astounded by this statement but, of course, respect the opinions of others. In fact, it compelled me to dig up my old post from the Jumping the Shark thread, which was a very similar discussion to this one. Saves me some typing.

I'm amazed at how many coin designers completely disregard copyright issues. Several coins come to mind that I am certain would never have gotten legal approval. Take any corporate brand and I think it very unlikely that they would authorize its use on a geocoin. I have reached out to two companies asking about making coins using a corporate image and have been staunchly (and understandably) denied. That said, I only see infringements - I don't see the number of times cachers come up with a design but abandon it due to copyright issues. I don't think the mints should be held responsible (though I don't confess to have much of an understanding of the law here). It's the designers that are using the images/names, etc. I also realize that geocoins, for the most part, are small in scope and are able to fly below the radar. That doesn't make it right but does explain why so many are comfortable not addressing the legal implications. If any of the coins which use images/names without permission were to show up in Wal-Mart you can bet there would be swift legal action.

A forum search will turn up dozens of these discussions. The last time around I posted this: to highlight a few of the past topics.

I think this is apples and oranges. The only non-gc.com trackable (NGT) I've found was a Canada geocoin, which I moved. The (my) issue with the copy coin is that it takes away the whole fun (for me) of coins which is seeing and holding them in person (so to speak) and replaces it with disappointment. Whether or not to move a NGT depends on convenience or even realizing that the item is an NGT - I would not be disappointed to see one. I realize that icon hunters (a term I don't use derogatorily since I like icons, too) might feel differently. One cacher's opinion. Maybe. Icon hunting could be one reason people might not move things not trackable at gc.com. But I'm starting to think the issue with 'fakes are stupid and I won't move them' is that coins have a uh "image", rightly or wrongly of being a shiny metal babble. And if people can't see what they expect they get annoyed. Noone seems to care much if a regular travel bug tag gets replaced with a copy, is this because TB are seen as being less defined? since the number might litterally be attached to anything, and not just to the limited defination of 'metal slug'?? Going back to things not trackable at gc.com, if theres not much of a reconized 'standard' are people more willing to accept a non-standard item? Or do we just truly dislike cheesy travelers no matter what? Please note that "fakes are stupid" is a very different statement than what I said, which is that 'copies are disappointing' (single quotes because I'm summarizing). As to the "shiny metal babble", well, I think that's exactly right. One might even describe it as a "coin". I like finding coins. I don't like finding xeroxed paper. As I started earlier, I don't have anything against cachers putting out copies. But just as they have a right to do so I have a right to leave it in the cache. I think NGTs are a separate issue but I will go on record that I delight in cheesy travelers and have put out several of my own.

I think this is apples and oranges. The only non-gc.com trackable (NGT) I've found was a Canada geocoin, which I moved. The (my) issue with the copy coin is that it takes away the whole fun (for me) of coins which is seeing and holding them in person (so to speak) and replaces it with disappointment. Whether or not to move a NGT depends on convenience or even realizing that the item is an NGT - I would not be disappointed to see one. I realize that icon hunters (a term I don't use derogatorily since I like icons, too) might feel differently. One cacher's opinion.

Dude, I've been banging that drum in this thread! Unfortunately the response has been the sound of one hand clapping.

The first rule of Platinum Membership is that we DONT TALK ABOUT PLATINUM MEMBERSHIP! Nope, no Platinum Membership here. However, if there were such a thing we would definitely still be calling cachers who joined in 2003 noobs. Hypothetically.

Interestingly, this is also true for Red Jeep TBs. With YJTBs, WJTBs, and GJTBs, their icons are listed separately on a cache search page even if there is a coin(s) or TB(s) also in the cache. With RJTBs, if there is also a geocoin in the cache the icon is that of multiple coins instead of a coin and a RJTB. A good example (as of right now) can be seen here. Note that the first cache listed, Let Freedom Ring, shows the icon for having multiple coins. If you hover over the icon (or click on the page) you'll see that there is in fact one coin and one RJTB. In contrast, if you scroll down the page and look at Lynn Woods 10 cache, you'll see two separate icons - one for a TB and one for a WJTB. Granted, this is a minor issue ("issue" may even be too strong a word). But I like the old way better - it is more descriptive and given that UFD TBs and Red Jeep TBs are not geocoins I think the old way is more accurate.

I vote that tadpole379 wins.

Um, opening a new topic just to link to your other topic isn't exactly how it's supposed to go. I do like the product, though.

I've been away from caching for a while and just returned to find the ads.....geez, they suck. I've always felt that geocaching is a sport outside of the mainstream, sort of like skateboarding. I used to love going out with my dog, having adventures that were a bit un-conventional. I thought geocaching was supposed to be about FUN, not profit. Instead of paying to become a premium member to get rid of the ads, how about this: I get rid of all my CASHES that I put out for everybody to use?! Let the preeeemium members go play thier stupid little game. Wow, lots of angst for a site that you don't have to pay for. I'm not sure how Google ads prevent you and your dog from geocaching but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. And as to fun, well I don't think having fun geocaching and Groundspeak making a profit are mutually exclusive. One last thought - maybe you should be thankful that this site gives you the option to play for free while enduring a few unobtrusive ads rather than simply requiring that everyone pays to foot the bills of servers, development, et cetera. I know I am.