Quiggle

Be sure to read this post by Keystone, not just the posts from 9Key. You may also want to read the forum guidelines which state: You're more than welcome to participate, but you must do it in a civil manner.

It's been a problem with certain providers in the past, and AOL has had issues as well. Just do a search for 'AOL' in the Website forum. I'll move this over to there so the site developers can take a look at it if needed.

It's been like that for years, it's not a recent change. (emphasis added by me) Since offset have been designated as multi-caches for almost 5 years now (the earliest record I can find of them is Nov 5, 2003), there's no reason to change them as it's been pretty well established. I don't have an answer for the examples you gave, they should be offset/multi, however in some cases there may be a reason to list them as mystery. If it's as simple as going to the object and using the information there to go to the final, the ones you've found are likely miscategorized.

You're welcome. Each cache is different so there may be exceptions for one reason or another, but for the most part what I've provided will suffice.

That's not the case, however. What you're describing is known as an offset cache, which is also listed as a multi-cache. See the listing guidelines at http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#multi Offset caches are a variation on multi-caches. They are listed as a multi-cache when selecting a cache type. They are not found by simply going to some coordinates and finding a cache there. With the offset cache the published coordinates could be of an existing historical monument, plaque, or even a benchmark that you would like to have your cache hunter visit. At this spot, the hunter looks for numbers or information already appearing on the marker or on some part of the marker or site (geocachers NEVER deface public or private property). The geocacher is then able to manipulate these numbers or information using instructions posted on the cache page to continue the hunt.

There's a good discussion going on about this here.

If I understand the OP correctly (and I could be assuming), the posted coordinates will be for part 1. So that answers your issue about "anything other than listing coordinates for the actual cache location(s)". Part 1 is posted on the page, they just choose to use clues/hints in that stage to get to the next stage. This could be "Go 500 feet at a bearing of 260°" or something else. You use the GPS to find the first stage, don't you? It also says "And at the 2nd to last stop - place JUST coordinates to the final hiding spot?" which would satisfy the GPS requirement. You just don't use coords for some of the intermediate stages, which is okay as long as GPS is used (ie required) somewhere along the line. But I'm assuming you won't have a stamp, so no Letterbox. According to the UNWRITTEN reviewer rules (as communicated in various forum threads and tales of rejected Letterbox Hybrid submissions), the listed coordinates for a Letterbox MUST be the actual location of the container, or else it must be listed as a "Mystery". And because the only difference between your cache and a multi-location Letterbox is the lack of a stamp, I assumed you would have to list your cache as "Mystery" cache. Due to the confusion over the language in the guidelines, the February 21, 2007 guidelines update addressed this (and was posted in this thread) which states the letterbox guidelines had changed to NOT require the cache to be at the posted coordinates. The key change was the revision of this (click the link to see the archive of the entire guidelines): to this Note that the word 'traditional' was removed (with the key part of traditional meaning 'at the posted coords') in favor of generic geocache, which could be at the posted coords or not. GPS usage still applies at some point in the hunt, otherwise it really is a letterbox! I know of one instance from this time last year (there may be more that I don't know about or recall from discussions here) where the guideline change didn't click with a reviewer but the cache was published on appeal. I think since that update and the one issue that I know of, it's been pretty smooth since then. Hope that helps.

Moving to GPS & Technology forum.

Moving to GPS & Technology forum. edit: That's weird, the first post is gone.

You can include clues/hints other than coordinates, as coordinates are a form of clue/hint as well. If you go to the starting point, find a container with information that leads to the next/final container, etc., it's a multi-cache. http://www.geocaching.com/about/cache_types.aspx Multi-Cache (offset Cache) A multi-cache ("multiple") involves two or more locations, the final location being a physical container. There are many variations, but most multi-caches have a hint to find the second cache, and the second cache has hints to the third, and so on. An offset cache (where you go to a location and get hints to the actual cache) is considered a multi-cache. If you need to solve a puzzle or otherwise figure out the starting coordinates, ie they're not posted at the top, that's a good candidate for the puzzle/mystery J-Way suggested, even if there are multiple stages. Your reviewer would work with you on what type to choose, but from your suggestions so far here, I'd stick with multi. Disclaimer: Each cache is different, so there may be variances from what I have stated in my post. YMMV.

Closing duplicate.

Moving to geocoins forum.

Unfortunately. mtn-man's KoosKoos advice was good. Use the virtual spot as a point in a multi-cache and you can still bring people there, yet take them to another spot that can hold a cache. Win-win. (Sorry, KoosKoos!)

So the mystery is solved and we can all move on now? It's up to the cache owner if they want to explain it, otherwise the world may never know But it's really not as big of a conspiracy as you guys are making it out to be.

It wasn't. I submitted two posts to keep on track yet you still posted yours. Please stay on topic.

Please leave the forum moderation to the moderators. If you have an issue with a post, please use the [REPORT] button. Thank you.

Can we get back on topic please? Thank you

I was kidding, which is why I carefully said "possible scenarios" rather than "This is what he's doing". TeamGeoBlast: Not quite.

Possible scenarios to keep you busy: 1. In an effort to get everyone to use the wheelchair attribute on 1-star terrain caches, we're selectively retracting caches without them. This is one of the first ones. Terrain: = 2. Michael might be exercising his God complex over a not-so-helpful hint. So go check your cache pages.

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#guide Note I never hold up a cache because of a hint. I "offer suggestions before posting" as the guidelines say. Abuse of power would be holding it up in the review process, while posting a suggestion and moving on is quite the opposite.

I hope you find your PDA, unimoggers.

I'm going to log an armchair closing of this thread /Q edit: Per the OP's request.

Closing the duplicate that Keystone already moved. Thanks.

The pictures are indeed very cool

Just going by his forum posts, I can't either. Being the lucky reviewer for Vinny's home state, I'm still downloading his last set of reviewer notes for a cache he placed over 2 weeks ago! I can't do anything while they load!