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The internal Li+ cell isn't what I'd prefer, but there are quite easy workarounds for any issues with it. The Quest recharges on 5 VDC which is just what the little holders of 4 NiMH AA cells put out on a USB cable. Unfortunately the Quest doesn't use USB for its charger connection, but it's easy to modify the AA cell holders with the appropriate connector and that lets you recharge the Quest at least a couple times using a set of AAs. This is really only needed on multi-day backpacking trips since the internal cell lasts long enough for any single-day outings. And although Garmin says the internal cell isn't user-replaceable it's actually very easy to open the Quest and pop in a replacement cell (I think the same cell is used in some cellphones). Elsinga's FAQ site used to have pictures showing the interior and including the part number on the Li+ cell but the link appears to be dead now.

It's an unauthorized method of getting the auto-routing function to work with the NavTeq-based versions of MetroGuide (i.e. 5 and up for the North American ones). But note that it messes up some of the search functions - AIRC some will then only work within a map segment rather than across all loaded maps.

Partly, but two additional factors should be noted. First is that GPS receivers directly measure velocities relative to the satellites by observing the Doppler shifts of the radio signals. So in addition to the 'pseudo-range' information based on travel time differences and used to calculate the position, the receiver uses 'pseudo-range-rate' data based on the Doppler shifts to determine speed and track bearing. The second consideration is that there's some filtering of the speed data. It is very accurate when you're moving at a constant speed, but you can usually notice a lag of a couple seconds if you make rapid speed changes. Slam on the brakes at a red light and you may notice that the GPS speed takes a few seconds to drop to 0. This filtering trades off quick responsiveness to get better accuracy.

MetroGuide-NA, version 5 is not designed to support the auto-routing feature on your GPS receiver. But version 4 should work ok, albeit with not as good routing support as CitySelect/Navigator. Have you tried doing exactly the same Find Address operation on both your 60CSx and his CS? There definitely can be some quirks depending on how the address is entered since Garmin's software/firmware isn't very flexible about accepting alternate ways of writing an address. But I'd expect it to work the same on the CSx as on the CS.

Yes for both. You can enter coordinates manually by creating a waypoint at your current location and then editing the coordinates to whatever you want. For geocaching you can download a file of geocache locations in .loc or .gpx formats and then upload the file to the GPS. Of course the auto-routing will just get you to the point on a road that's somewhere near the cache but may not be the best place from which to start walking.

For the routing within the US where there are good maps for the GPS the Garmin models have a definite edge. They let you specify vehicle type (car, truck, pedestrian, bicycle, etc.), let you set intermediate points where you want, specify routing by fastest time vs. distance, and additional customization of the route. All of the units you're considering will do the above. Somewhat of an edge to the Garmins here. They'll store up to 10,000 points in the tracklog plus the semi-infinite number on the card. Plus you may find it handy to use the 20 'Saved Tracks' to display local roads or other features for areas where you have no maps. Magellans let you store multiple tracklogs on the SD card but only one at a time is displayed and none can be over 2000 points. The new Garmins support their custom POI loader which does let you put your own POIs on the microSD card. It's not quite the same as having more waypoints since you can't edit them in the field, but they can be used for many of the same purposes. For all the units you can enter POIs and Waypoints by their lat/long values rather than actually being there. If you really need 3-axis then this eliminates all but the eXplorist 600. But I find the GPS compass to work fine since it only requires movement of a few feet to start showing the right direction and that allows me to know my approximate orientation even when I stop. I.e. while I'm walking the GPS tells me which way north is and so I know that, for example, the big building up ahead is toward the east. If I now stop for a while I still know which way is which since I just glance at the building and know that it's east of me. The 2-axis compasses also work fine but do require that you hold the unit level. Yes, but the altitude might be off for awhile if you have poor reception with only 3 satellites visible. Under good reception conditions the GPS altitude is generally within about 30'. Garmin will probably give you the best access to third-party support, but viewing tracks in Google Earth should be ok with anything supported by GPSBabel so I think the Magellan and Lowrance models would be ok as well. Garmin has more 3rd-party map support which may be of interest in your situation. No, people have used 1 GB (and prob. 2 GB) cards with Meridians. Maps have to be divided up into muliple files though so you can't automatically route across a very large region.

There are some videos, but I wouldn't recommend them. Sputnik has an excellent Faq site for the 60c/cs models based largely on forum discussions here at: http://home.houston.rr.com/gpsr/ Although it hasn't been updated for the 'x' models yet most of the information is the same. The other recommendation I'd make is to just use the unit whenever you go anywhere for awhile. That'll get you familiar with the features, capabilities, and any quirks to watch out for quicker than anything else. So when you go to the store, to work, etc. have the unit route you there even though you obviously already know how to get there. If you take the dog for a walk record a tracklog and some waypoints and upload them to MapSource. Using it in familiar areas is a quick way to learn how all the features work. I'd also note that Garmin releases new firmware with both bug fixes and feature enhancements fairly regularly and there's a pretty recent one for the 60CSx. So check the firmware release when you get it and you might want to get an updated version from Garmin's website.

They base the maps on USGS 1:100K maps, which, as noted above, are not the latest when it comes to man-made features. I'm not aware of any move by the USGS or Garmin to update these any time soon. I'm specifically looking to purchase Garmin's MapSource United States TOPO software (click the link to see the description on the Garmin Web site). From their description, it covers all of the United States including Alaska and Hawaii. It may well be as old (2002) as the software Sputnik 57 so kindly provided information about, but I'd like, if possible, to get information about the specific package I've been looking at. If there are reasons (besides age of the data) why I shouldn't bother to buy this package, I'd appreciate knowing that, too. Alternatively, is anyone using it and liking it? The dates and release numbers provided above by Sputnik *are* for the latest version of Garmin's MapSource US Topo. It comes as a set of three CDs: West, East, and Alaska/Hawaii. I find it to be a useful set of maps for looking at the terrain and natural features since those don't change much in a few decades, but I generally recommend that it only be a supplemental purchase after getting one of the street map products like CitySelect/Navigator or MetroGuide. As Sputnik indicated, the US Topo maps are based on USGS 1:100,000 series maps and these are very dated with regard to man-made features. The old high school in my hometown is still shown in the location where it burned down in the late '60s and the two schools that were built to replace it are not shown. Road data is frequently just as dated. Although not nearly as detailed as the USGS1:24000 series, I've found the contour lines and other natural features that are shown to be quite accurate. Note that this 1:100,000 series is based on metric measurements and the contour spacing is in meters. If you have your GPS set to show altitudes in feet then the contour lines appear at somewhat unusual numbers such as 164', 328', 492', etc. An alternative to purchase of these maps is to create 'transparent' contour line maps that can be displayed as an overlay on the CityNavigator maps you already have in your GPS. That way you get much more up-to-date road and other feature information combined with the terrain information, but it does involve quite a few steps to create such maps. Here's a site that describes the process: http://home.cinci.rr.com/creek/garmin.htm

Elsinga's site that Sputnik referenced used to have a link to a picture showing how the Quest could be opened up and that the internal battery is a pretty common one and easily replaced. Unfortunately the picture was no longer available when I last checked, but it convinced me that the battery issue isn't as much of a drawback as I originally thought.

Nope, MapSource TopoUS is still the same and you'd be able to use the Topo you got for the Legend with a new 76Cx. Garmin also has the Topo24K series (West, Central, and East) that gives much more detail, but it only applies to National Parks and selected other recreational areas. BTW, R&R maps would work in the 76Cx as well but they're getting rather dated and don't support auto-routing so you'd probably want to upgrade to CityNavigator.

Since car navigation is a big part of your use, I'd recommend the Garmin Quest. It comes with the CitySelect-NA maps, dash mount, and 12V power cord that are extra on many other handheld units, and it gives voice directions when plugged into the car power. It's also smaller and lighter overall than the Garmin 60 & 76 models while having just as large a screen. They're available for about $300 - 350 which is a relative bargain when compared to most comparable models once you include the map software and other options that come with the Quest.

If there's a relatively poor contact then the voltage can easily fluctuate in the way you describe. The recovery won't be due to the clear sky, but rather random changes due to tiny motions of the cells against the contacts and changes in any corrosion or other contamination layer. But it's very easy for such random changes to appear to have a pattern if you only have a few trials.

Since you don't currently have MapSource, I'd suggest you instead upload the MapCenter files to your GPS using either SendMap directly or using the Img2GPS program. I found the latter to be the easiest. The alternate ways are described at: http://vip.hex.net/~dougs/GPSSM/index.html (I'd recommend the 3rd method shown there for those who don't have MapSource.)

I tend to agree with 'gogosch' at that site. Noting that both in this forum and the German one there are very inconsistent results makes me suspect poor battery contacts as the culprit. That can be the result of vibrations if the cells aren't held tightly (if particularly bad you lose contact entirely, but if just a slight contact is maintained the unit can stay on but show low voltage), or due to corrosion/oxidation/contamination of the battery compartment contacts or cell terminals. The latter is more likely to occur with NiMH cells since these last so long that there can easily be some oxidation or contamination of the contacts. When current flows through the contaminated layer there's a voltage drop across it and therefore a lower voltage is seen by the GPS circuitry. If this happens shortly after an upgrade of the firmware it's easy to blame it on that event, but I've seen similar behavior of other electronic devices where there was no firmware problem.

Just stopped by Gilsson (aka 'GPSGeek') earlier today and picked up their USB/RS232 adapter cable for $18 since I'll be using a different laptop on my next trip and it lacks the RS232 style of serial port. The Gilsson adapter works fine for both sending and receiving data. By default mine used COM 4, but it can be set to other choices if there would otherwise be a conflict. Note that whatever adapter you get there should be some software with it to provide the needed driver.

It's the same data as the Active Log, but note that that does not include speed information. It has the lat., long., altitude, date, and time (UTM). Some software programs then calculate additional parameters like speed and bearing from this data but they're not recorded directly.

My understanding is that Metroguide and Topo are not routeable on the 60C series. You need City Select or City Navigator. That would be correct if we were talking about the TopoUS or the current MetroGuide-NA programs. But both Topo-Canada and MetroGuide-Canada, v4 (i.e. the latest version) support auto-routing on the 60C and other Garmins that support auto-routing. CitySelect & Navigator-NA would do so as well but have much less comprehensive coverage of Canada, particularly in rural areas.

Maybe not. MetroGuide-Canada, version 4 (which is the current version) definitely *does* support auto-routing on both the PC and appropriate GPS unit. In the previous thread you had first indicated that you had version 4 which made it puzzling why it wasn't working. But later you corrected it to version 2 which does not support routing so that clarified the situation. The GPSCentral dealer site (www.gpscentral.ca) has a good comparison table of the various current Canadian map products for Garmins. Key word is "Appropriate GPS Unit". The 60 Series was designed for City Select, not Metroguide. Wrong. My phrase "appropriate GPS unit" means a Garmin that supports auto-routing since obviously MG-Canada won't provide auto-routing on my eMap nor on a Meridian. Once again, MetroGuide-Canada, version 4 does support auto-routing on a 60C and other Garmin models that support auto-routing.

Maybe not. MetroGuide-Canada, version 4 (which is the current version) definitely *does* support auto-routing on both the PC and appropriate GPS unit. In the previous thread you had first indicated that you had version 4 which made it puzzling why it wasn't working. But later you corrected it to version 2 which does not support routing so that clarified the situation. The GPSCentral dealer site (www.gpscentral.ca) has a good comparison table of the various current Canadian map products for Garmins.

It seems highly unlikely that the availability of free maps would drive the makers of GPS receivers out of business. Afterall, free maps would greatly increase the demand for GPS receivers so people could make use of them. The pricing structure might change a bit, but surely the manufacturers would respond to that surge of demand. And it's not clear how much profit those companies clear from map sales since they have to pay license fees to NavTeq for the maps they sell. The main reason why good maps aren't free is that they're expensive and time-consuming to produce. A routable map database needs to include lots of data on turn restrictions, one-ways, island barriers, average speeds, time-of-day restrictions, vehicle restrictions, etc. Many of these can change rapidly due to decisions by local city councils and city/county/state transportation departments so there needs to be constant maintenance to keep the database reasonably current as well as adding to it as new roads & streets are built. The companies (NavTeq and TeleAtlas are two prominent ones) that specialize in producing these maps have substantial expenses so it's understandable that they want to collect a decent return from the GPS companies that resell their data.

Agreed. One rough indication of the different levels of detail is indicated by comparing the memory requirements of the different maps. When just considering the Canadian coverage, CitySelect/Navigator-NA, v7 have maps with 109 MB of memory space, the MG-Canada, v4 maps need 326 MB of memory, and the Topo-Canada maps need 3787 MB of memory (much of Canada has plenty of topology and natural features but relatively few roads).

Actually both products mentioned, Topo Canada and MetroGuide-Canada, *do* support auto-routing, at least for the current releases. [That's different from the US Topo and MG products.] Charliezulu, Which version of MG-Can do you have? Is it the current version 4 with map data from DMTI (earlier versions of MG-Can don't auto-route at all)? In that case it should support auto-routing albeit maybe not quite as well as CitySelect/Navigator. OTOH these programs have much better Canadian road detail. When you downloaded the maps to your 60C did you note the little checkbox to include the routing data in the download? If this isn't checked then the detailed maps can't be used for routing and the 60C will revert to just using the basemap. Based on your description, that's exactly what's happening.

Don't know about the 60CSx specifically, but on most Garmins it switches the radio receiver circuits off for a few seconds between fixes as long as your position is changing in a predictable way. So after initially finding your position and heading it turns off the receiver circuits to save power for a few seconds and then switches back on to reacquire the signals after 5 seconds. If the position is about where it was expected based on the previous data then it again switches off briefly. Whenever the position is far from the expected location the unit will leave the receiver circuits on continuously until things become more predictable again. Therefore the 'Battery Saver' mode is most effective under good reception conditions where the receiver can rapidly reacquire signals and if you're either standing still or moving in a reasonably straight line. The drawbacks are that the receiver may sometimes have trouble reacquiring signals if you move into an area with poor reception and the recorded tracklog might be a little less accurate since you're not getting position updates as frequently.

You'd need to download some detailed maps that contain street address data. MetroGuide, CitySelect, and CityNavigator all have such data (Topo, Roads&Rec. and some others do not).

Agreed. The symptoms sound almost identical to what I was seeing with a bad Garmin data card in my eMap. It also started out as an intermittent failure with the maps seeming to disappear but then became permanent with no ability to write data to the card. Mine was several years old when the problem started so Garmin wasn't willing to replace it.