justintim1999
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Posts posted by justintim1999
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Both the Travel bug owner or the cache owner should mark them as missing if they believe that it is.
I'm not talking about the case where the cache owner believes the TB is missing. I'm talking about the case where they know it's missing because they went through the cache contents, and the TB isn't there.
I think where we disagree is in the lengh of time given after the travel bug is confirmed as not in the cache. We can all agree that travel bugs should be logged as soon as possible but we know thats not always the case. Again the log will determine weather or not as a cache owner I mark the travel bug missing right away or give it a little time (a week or so) before doing so. If I think that one of the last few people to visit the cache picked up the travel bug I'll send out a few quick e-mails asking if they have it or remember seeing it. If I get no response in a couple of days I'll simply mark it as missing. A majority of the time a cacher did pick up the travel bug and just forgot to log it. Some times I find that a new cacher picked it up and is not quite sure what to do with it. This is a great teaching opportunity, a great way to help a new cacher learn about one of the great aspects of caaching.
I'm fine if you want to do that. Since most COs never mark TBs missing, I'm fine if you delay but then do it, since that's a big improvement. I'm just saying that a CO doesn't have to do any of that, and if they don't, there's no reason for them to delay marking it. Personally, as a CO, I would mark it missing right away even though I'd probably look into it as you describe, but that's just because I think that makes more sense, not because I think it's morally superior or anything.
One last thing. The online log is never "real time" accurate. you have to allow some time for people to log both finds and travel bugs.
The way I look at it is that the CO has one of those chances to make the log completely "real time" accurate: he knows for a fact that the bug is not where it's listed at the time he logs his missing report. The person holding the bug can later fill in the missing pieces, and that's great, but in the meantime, no one will go to that cache believe information the CO know is wrong and can correct.
Seems like for the most part we agree. The only point we disagree on is "knowing" the travel bug is missing. As a cache owner I know the travel bug is not in my cache but I don't know that it's actually missing as in lost. I guess the sticking point is the word missing. Even though the travel bug is not in my cache I don't consider it missing if it simply hasn't been logged yet. I just prefer to give it a little time to work itself out. If I see in the logs that a previous finder has noted that a particular travel bug was not in the cache it's a simple process. If there is any chance a recent finder possibly picked up the travel bug and hasn't got around to logging it I'd rather take the time to straighten it out before i mark it as missing. Either way I agree that keeping the cache inventory current is important.
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The situation for cache owners marking travel bugs as missing requires you to be a little more savvy. Keeping the cache inventory up to date is important but before you go marking travel bugs missing from your caches you should be prudent. Lets say you go out today to do a little cache maintenance. You notice that the cache lists a travel bug that's not there. Do a little investigation. See when the travel bug was dropped. Check the logs to see if any one visiting the cache reported it missing. Check to see when the cache was last visited (the last visitor may have picked up the travel bug just days before you checked up on it and has not gotten around to logging it) If I can determine that the travel bug has been missing for more than a month as a cache owner I mark it as missing. Here's where the debate starts. How much time should a cache owner spend (If any) determining that a travel bug is indeed missing. I think Keeping the cache inventory current is part of a cache owners responsibilities so I will take some time investigating before I mark one as missing. Of course this burden could be eliminated if the travel bug owner did this themselves.
This paragraph is based on two concepts I disagree with. The first is that there's any negative at all to marking a missing TB missing. In your worst case scenario, which will be very uncommon, the CO will mark a TB that's simply not in his cache missing. Now it's not listed in the cache's inventory. The person that picked it up simply grabs it instead of retrieving it. It doesn't matter whether it's a day, a week, a month, or a year later.
The second concept I disagree with is that a TB not being in a cache is open to interpretation. It's not. The TB's either there or it isn't. The CO doesn't need to think for even half a moment about that. Sure, if he wants to investigate and be proactive about figuring out where it is, that's fine -- I do that all the time when a TB is missing, whether I own the cache or not -- but that needs to be balanced with the fact that as long as he's investigating, the on-line record is wrong, plain and simple.
No negative in marking a travel bug missing. Both the Travel bug owner or the cache owner should mark them as missing if they believe that it is. I think where we disagree is in the lengh of time given after the travel bug is confirmed as not in the cache. We can all agree that travel bugs should be logged as soon as possible but we know thats not always the case. Again the log will determine weather or not as a cache owner I mark the travel bug missing right away or give it a little time (a week or so) before doing so. If I think that one of the last few people to visit the cache picked up the travel bug I'll send out a few quick e-mails asking if they have it or remember seeing it. If I get no response in a couple of days I'll simply mark it as missing. A majority of the time a cacher did pick up the travel bug and just forgot to log it. Some times I find that a new cacher picked it up and is not quite sure what to do with it. This is a great teaching opportunity, a great way to help a new cacher learn about one of the great aspects of caaching. One last thing. The online log is never "real time" accurate. you have to allow some time for people to log both finds and travel bugs.
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Ahhhh. Travel Bugs and Owner Maintenance.... My two favorite subjects. In fact these are probably the two biggest problems in the goecaching community. 1st Travel bugs. They go missing and there's not much a travel bug owner can do except a little research and send out a few e-mails. I think what people don't understand is marking a travel bug missing doesn't wipe it off the face of the earth. It simply means that it's not in the cache it's suppose to be and the owner doesn't know exactly where it is. It can always be "grabbed" if found and continue on.
The situation for cache owners marking travel bugs as missing requires you to be a little more savvy. Keeping the cache inventory up to date is important but before you go marking travel bugs missing from your caches you should be prudent. Lets say you go out today to do a little cache maintenance. You notice that the cache lists a travel bug that's not there. Do a little investigation. See when the travel bug was dropped. Check the logs to see if any one visiting the cache reported it missing. Check to see when the cache was last visited (the last visitor may have picked up the travel bug just days before you checked up on it and has not gotten around to logging it) If I can determine that the travel bug has been missing for more than a month as a cache owner I mark it as missing. Here's where the debate starts. How much time should a cache owner spend (If any) determining that a travel bug is indeed missing. I think Keeping the cache inventory current is part of a cache owners responsibilities so I will take some time investigating before I mark one as missing. Of course this burden could be eliminated if the travel bug owner did this themselves.
I'm a trackable lover myself so keeping my cache inventory up to date is important to me. I know what it's like to find a cache thinking there's a travel bug or geocoin inside only to be disappointed.
Like anything be prepared to follow through with what you started.
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You have to rely on the cache owners honesty or that the reviewer checks up on the validity of the permission. With all the caches reviewers have to process it's not realistic they would have time to check each and every one.
I always include the name of the person who granted permission as well as a means of contact in the reviewers notes. I think this is something that should be required when publishing any cache. I know there are a lot of "rebels" out there who are going to think I'm crazy and that's fine. By placing a cache on a piece of property without getting permission from the land owner or land manager is not only wrong but could wind up giving caching a bad name.
Placing a cache on a piece of conservation land could be potentially harmful. Conservation lands are designed to protect and promote ecosystems and natural habitats. By placing a geocache in these areas you could be inadvertently harming these habitats. But, by taking the time to work with the owners or managers of the property you can be guided to areas where caches can be placed safely.
It takes time to track down permission, that's probably why many don't do it. But in the end it's the right thing to do.
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I move every travel bug I come across of for no other reason than it lets the owner know it's still alive. As far as getting your travel bug moving again you could try Travel Bug Rescue. http://www.tb-rescue.com.
I've had some success getting travel bugs and geocoins moving again using this site. good luck.
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You could try Travel Bug Rescue. http://www.tb-rescue.com. I've had some success using this site. No guarantee but it could help.
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It all sounds good until someone gets hurt. Not worth the risk. No cache is.
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It's important to respect peoples space. Searching for a cache underneath a park bench with people sitting on it is probably not a good idea. I would have moved on to the next cache and came back later. Being discrete is important but taking the opportunity to introduce geocaching to non-cachers is a good thing to. Remember being discrete is more about keeping the cache safe and hidden so that it doesn't get removed or destroyed by muggles.
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Personally I don't get to worked up about logs either way. The purpose of the cache is to get people out and enjoy nature. If a cacher logs it I know they have made the trip and I'm happy. Some people like to write long logs some don't. The only thing I would like to see less of is the three or four sentence log that's cut and pasted for every find. If your going to do that just write "TFTC".
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If you're hesitant about asking the park managers (open space/parks & recreation), you could email one of the cachers in these areas and ask what the placement rules are (if there is any).
Just because there are already caches in place, doesn't mean there isn't a policy they (and you) have to abide by.
Good advice cerberus1. This is the right way to go. Make sure you have permission from the land owner or manager.
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If you are not the travelbug owner or the owner of the cache in which the travel bug should be there's not much you can do. E-mailing the owner of the travelbug and the owner of the cache may get the bug marked as missing as long as one of them is still active and or cares.
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Caches should have at least one of three things.
1. Location
2. Creative Container
3. Unique Hide
If a cache has all three it's usually a good one.
1 is important for me too. 2 and 3 rather detoriate my personal experience, I noticed that something is missing in your list that probably is most important for me - it is the way
to the cache, both from the point of view what I experience there and the point of view of physical activity.- If I go by car or bus very close to a cache, then even the most unique location will
make me fully happy. From time to time I encounter a puzzle cache where I enjoy the homework part, but in order to result in a real nice cache experience I need an outdoor part that involves a certain minimum level of physical activity. Typically this means a bicycle trip of a walk of at least 30 minutes, but preferably considerably longer.
Cezanne
I understand your point. I would include the walk to the cache as part of location. A simple cache can
be a great if it dose nothing but bring you to a beautiful area or something unique your wouldn't have discovered otherwise.
Creative container would include camo as well as something out of the norm. A container other than a lock and lock or bison tube.
Creative Hide would pertain to the way the cache is presented, something hidden in a different way. There is nothing wrong with finding a simple lock and lock, but when the cache owner shows me something a little different, something I haven't seen before. That's what brings a smile to my face.
Many times it's simply just a great day of caching.
Don't be afraid to try something different. Put a little time and creativity into your hides. Cachers will appreciate it.
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Caches should have at least one of three things.
1. Location
2. Creative Container
3. Unique Hide
If a cache has all three it's usually a good one.
There is also the random things that can happen when caching that can make a cache memorable. Seeing an animal, weather (good or bad). A chance meeting with another cacher ect.
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More commonly I find that the cache owner is not active anymore and the log would have never been replaced if I hadn't replaced it.
More or less every full, soaking wet log cache had an Owner who lost interest in that cache (or moved on, whatever, just isn't available). In that case, if it's not a great container in a great spot, consider if it's time to allow that cache to go away. Someone who changes cache logs and fixes the container might be good as the Cache Owner of a new cache there.
My sentiments too. I will help out a cache whose owner is active and cares about their caches. Putting some paper in the cache to tide it over for a month helps. Wiping down a container in good shape that didn't have the lid put back on properly saves the CO an unnecessary trip. Putting a logsheet in a cache that is already falling apart and hasn't been maintained by the CO despite logs that mention the condition, gets an Needs Maintenance log from me. Then I put a watch on the cache and in about a month I'll post an Needs Archive. This either gets the COs attention or the cache ends up archived by the reviewer and the area opens up for an active cache owner who will hopefully do the right thing and maintain their property.
Fixing an abandoned cache makes the fixer not much better then the defunct owner - they too abandon the cache, never to come back when the next report comes in that the cache needs attention.
I don't quite agree with the last sentence here. Often times a cacher in the field doesn't have the ability to check to see if a cache owner is active or not. I would replace the log if for no other reason than the next cacher won't have to deal with a full or wet log. Leaving a broken, wet cache just doesn't make any sense to me.
I do agree that many of these abandoned caches need to be archived so that these areas can be opened up for new caches. That being said you should always leave a "Needs Maintenance" log if you determine the cache is no longer being maintained.
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See Guideline 6.6.4. I think some Reviewers might steer one away from the idea that people are coming to an event to find more caches.
I think that, for the most part, people use the temporary caches at events as a game, not as a way to log more finds than just an "Attended" smilie. It's those cachers who want to boost a find count (yes, yes, or to harmlessly and simply keep track of what they've found in this lovely game of geocaching) that log multiple "Attended" logs to track the temporary caches they found as well.
The use of "scavenger hunts" or the like with temporary caches has certainly proven to be a popular game at extended-length outdoor events. One will have seen this done enough times that one might think it is a necessary inclusion at an Event. The attendees likely have grown accustomed to seeing this game played at events. Most have likely found joy in creating and participating. But, things get muddled when one expects that it would be a part of an event, and would/would not attend based soley on that game being part of the event.
Let people find the caches in the area if they like. Many will have already been planning to do so before, during, or after. Feel free to place or not place temporary caches for the event. But you shouldn't feel like you have to do it, or that you have to provide more "fun" than just a gathering of geocachers in one place.
The idea that people expect there to be Lab Caches at Megas, Temporary caches at events, or a way to log more than just the one "Attended" log for any event is troublesome to me. And, therein is why I think the guideline exists. As far as guidelines go, this one has been bent quite a bit...and with enough continued bending may break off. Some will utter a polite, "Meh...", but I don't like to think that any event I would have to create in the future would have to also place temporary or permanent caches to lure in attendees. The events should be able to stand on their own, and create a way for geocachers to get together and have fun whether there are Lab, standard, or temporary caches or not.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm not concerned with cachers padding there stats. I'm more interested in giving the ones who have already attended previous events (and found the caches that are preeminently placed) something new and fresh to do. We are working on a letterboxing program for the property. We could incorporate the letterbox hides into a scavenger hunt and use coords instead of written clues to find the hides. Keep the ideas flowing. Thanks.
Right on. I just wanted to share the related guideline, and my thoughts on the ethics of it.
A letterbox set would be new and different--not all cachers know what a letterbox is, and you'll provide a good way to teach them about it. (Nice thought, that!)
You may not be worried about "padding stats", but some cachers are. That's the part where I don't want to see a future where events must have lab or "new" caches to be found for people to want to come.
There are many other fun event iteas that make for a good time:
-A "Micro Toss", where people stand outside a designated area and try to toss a film can to a bullseye. Closest wins.
-An "Accuracy Challenge", where you give surveyor flags to people, and have them place their flags where their GPS tells them "ground zero" is. You record a spot before this all happens, and the closest person to your spot wins.
-Cache container contest, where awards are given for categories of cache containers. Best Camo, Best Creative Design, and a kid's category, of course!
-Use of temporary caches to complete a worksheet/scavenger hunt. First done, or other criteria apply
-Coordinate Hangman: Have a blank sheet with N/W coordinate blanks for your area. (N_ _ _ degrees _ _._ _ W _ _ degrees _ _._ _ _) Start entering numbers at a set time. Add a number one at a time at set intervals (Every half hour, or whatever makes sense) throughtout the event. First person to find the cache at those coordinates wins.
Enjoy. These are just a few of the games I found to be successful, and a lot of fun.
SWEET!!! Thanks for taking the time to share these ideas.
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See Guideline 6.6.4. I think some Reviewers might steer one away from the idea that people are coming to an event to find more caches.
I think that, for the most part, people use the temporary caches at events as a game, not as a way to log more finds than just an "Attended" smilie. It's those cachers who want to boost a find count (yes, yes, or to harmlessly and simply keep track of what they've found in this lovely game of geocaching) that log multiple "Attended" logs to track the temporary caches they found as well.
The use of "scavenger hunts" or the like with temporary caches has certainly proven to be a popular game at extended-length outdoor events. One will have seen this done enough times that one might think it is a necessary inclusion at an Event. The attendees likely have grown accustomed to seeing this game played at events. Most have likely found joy in creating and participating. But, things get muddled when one expects that it would be a part of an event, and would/would not attend based soley on that game being part of the event.
Let people find the caches in the area if they like. Many will have already been planning to do so before, during, or after. Feel free to place or not place temporary caches for the event. But you shouldn't feel like you have to do it, or that you have to provide more "fun" than just a gathering of geocachers in one place.
The idea that people expect there to be Lab Caches at Megas, Temporary caches at events, or a way to log more than just the one "Attended" log for any event is troublesome to me. And, therein is why I think the guideline exists. As far as guidelines go, this one has been bent quite a bit...and with enough continued bending may break off. Some will utter a polite, "Meh...", but I don't like to think that any event I would have to create in the future would have to also place temporary or permanent caches to lure in attendees. The events should be able to stand on their own, and create a way for geocachers to get together and have fun whether there are Lab, standard, or temporary caches or not.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm not concerned with cachers padding there stats. I'm more interested in giving the ones who have already attended previous events (and found the caches that are preeminently placed) something new and fresh to do. We are working on a letterboxing program for the property. We could incorporate the letterbox hides into a scavenger hunt and use coords instead of written clues to find the hides. Keep the ideas flowing. Thanks.
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Yes they do count as a find but remember they ARE NOT in your statistics.
Do you mean LAB caches or Temporary caches. I thought only a mega event had the ability to place LAB caches?
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I don't know if you want to go there, and I'll bet it's the reason Great Scott's post was "edited by moderator", but you can place all the temporary caches you want for the day of the event. And Groundspeak doesn't even care if people log that they attended the event 125 times if they found 125 temporary caches. HOWEVER, this practice has died out to the point where it's pretty much unheard of outside of parts of Ohio, Pa., and West Virginia. The key word there being PARTS of those States, I might add.
I have been an event a couple times that's going to be up to it's 11th or 12th annual gathering this summer (but not big enough for Mega status), and they always have temporary caches "just for the fun of it". And ultimately, world wide, most events that have temporary caches are "just for the fun of it.
A Poker run is a good use of temporary caches, where people can have fun, and earn prizes.
I was hoping that LAB caches would have been the answer. It would be nice to have the ability to place temporary caches (just for the event) and be able to change them up each year. It would also allow attendees to log them as finds on geocaching.com. I do like the idea of the poker run. Thanks
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Archive some of the older caches so new caches can be placed.
I'd go with that idea.
Does anyone know if new caches are a must at events. Do they really attract cachers? Without new caches are the number of attenders generally quite low?
Would advertised workshops and displays attract geocachers?
Example: Workshops: How to carve a stamp for a letterbox; Puzzle caches - how to solve them (without giving away specific caches); GSAK - how to create a macro; Caches along a route - how to; How to build a birdhouse cache; How to handle a trackable; When, why, how to ask for permission. Displays: cache sizes (with emphasis that a button nano falls under the micro category); water tight container examples; geocoins & trackables; signature items (maybe get folks to pin their signature item on a board); etc.
Thanks
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Archive some of the older caches so new caches can be placed.
These caches are only a year old. don't really want to archive them yet.
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We run a small geocaching event every year at a local conservation area. The area is about 62 acres and is already populated with as many caches as will fit. Each year we look for ways to attract geocachers who have already attended the event or have found the caches already placed there.
Know of any plans to allow smaller events to place temporary caches?
Any ideas on attracting repeat geocachers back to an event every year?
Thanks
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Nice to see a new cacher who cares about the health and well being of the game.
I to carry some extra supplies around with me to help out other cachers. Adding a new log is always a nice thing to do and is almost always appreciated by the cache owner. I have come across situations where I can't replace the old log without removing it. In that case I do take the old log with me.
When I get home I make sure to contact the cache owner and tell them what I did and offer to return the original log to them. Most times I can simply drop it in the mail. More commonly I find that the cache owner is not active anymore and the log would have never been replaced if I hadn't replaced it.
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Got to believe that most of the missing trackables are due to human error. sure there are some people who will steal them but I think that they are the exception not the norm.
That being said I usually put my trackables in a bag along with a copy of Geocacher University's "Travel Bug Travel Guide". I have noticed that these travelers last much longer than the ones I've released without the guide.
Making trackables a little less expensive would help soften the blow of loosing them from time to time.
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Was out doing a 4 part multi. Parked next to a gate where the third waypoint was located. As I was walking in a police car rolled in and hit the wailer to grab my attention. He asked me where I was heading and I spent 10 minutes explaining geocaching to him. After he left I proceeded to DNF the third stage and headed home.
The next day I returned and parked in the same spot, found the third waypoint and proceeded down the trail to the final. When I returned to my car I noticed a piece of paper under my wiper. It was left by the local police and asked that I not park at this location in the future but use the parking lot that was located about 300 feet further up the road.
At the bottom of the note the office wrote. "Hope you found it"
TB Note
in Trackables
Posted
Check out this link to Geocaching University http://geocacher-u.com/?page_id=71. This can't be laminated but can be put in a bag along with your travel bug.
Here's a good video on how to fold a zine.