justintim1999

Can't say I'm in favor of archiving perfectly good, well maintained caches due to lack of finds or favorite points. I will say I've considered doing just that with some of my own caches. Look to create something new and in the process give previous visitors a reason to come back and enjoy the area again. Something to think about.

By not immediately deleting the find I think you're already show good judgment. Reaching out and offering guidance to a new cacher is always a good thing. In the end it's up to you to decide if the find stays or geos. You are after all the cache owner. In 10 years of Geocaching I can only remember deleting 1 find. I've had countless "Didn't have a pen to sign the log" finds but I don't have the time to wallow in the "everybody's trying to get away with something" crowd.

My reviewer has been very understanding regarding issues with my caches. I'm sure the fact that I've continued to post my maintenance intentions has a lot to do with it as dose my past ownership history. As long as you show your active and working on the issues I think most reviewers will give you a lot of slack. Of course at some point you have to follow through with your promises. I do believe your cache ownership history (or lack of) plays a role in all of this.

Anyone out there know who the reviewer is for central Massachusetts? Or maybe someone knows the answer to this question? I have a cache that had to be archived (the tree came down during a recent storm) I'd like to place another cache in the same general area and I wanted to know if new cache submissions are being processed. I set up a new cache page and left a reviewers note with this question about 2 weeks ago. The new cache will take some time to make and I'd rather not waste my time right now if it's not going to be published. Thanks

I've seen an actual uptick in my cache finds over the last month. I hope the trend continues after we're through all this. This weekend was cache maintenance weekend and I found myself enjoying every minute of it.

I'd assume that most reviewers take into consideration caches that are hidden in snowy areas. Many of my caches could rack up multiple DNF's due to snow cover. In fact I had one DNF last week where the cacher mentioned snow cover as a possible reason in their log. Dose the CHS take into consideration caches without the "available in winter" attribute?

Dress warm, bring plenty of fluids and try to ignore the previous cachers tracks. Although if it's a particularly difficult cache, those tracks can look like something out of a Family Circus comic strip.

Annoying? maybe. Self-centered, and tacky would depend on the experience of the finder. I anticipate things like that (and many others) from new cachers. I'd hope an experienced cacher or cache owner would bet a little more understanding. Of course if I knew then what I know now, I'd have made my caching name "ARF" and saved myself many signing problems

How to properly log a Travel Bug. First cache I found had one in it. I took it with me not having a slightest clue what to do with it. It's no surprise I logged it about as backward as one can (picture of the tracking # included.) Thankfully the owner of the Travel Bug was watching it. He fixed it up for me and sent me detailed directions on how to do it along with an open invitation to contact him if I had any questions. He was the first cacher I had any contact with and his patience and understanding went a long way.

It shows me you were likely to stick around and that's all I'm looking for. I found more than 600 before I took the plunge.

You and I are in agreement here. To me this isn't a matter of what's quality and what isn't. It's about understanding that to become a cache owner you're agreeing to do all the things a cache owner needs to do. It's about being willing to make good on that promise before you hide the cache and following through when you're all done. Where is the distinction between the person who hides a cache and walks away 3 month later and the person who's maintained a cache for years? Both share the title "Cache Owner" One in mind and one in spirit. I consider cache ownership an honor which is why I don't think anyone should be able to hide one right out of the box.

This example is based on real life experience. The point is he's not ready to be a full time operator. He need a little more seasoning. No different in Geocaching. I could have simply thrown him into the job. Sink or swim. That wouldn't have been fair to him, me, the company or the customer. Sometimes people are willing and eager but not quite able. Don't you think most people who really wanted to become cache owners would agree to wait 3 months? Doesn't the simple fact you have to wait indicate that this is something special and they just don't give these opportunities away to just anyone?

Amen.

Why else would you be in favor of allowing a brand new cacher the ability to hide a cache? There are way more downsides to allowing this than there are positives. The one positive is the potential for "more caches to find!". If better cache maintenance is what everyone wants than isn't this just one piece of that puzzle? at least make sure the person is going to stick around before you let them hide caches all over the place. Personally Finding a broken, moldy caches doesn't faze me a bit. I feel bad for the next cacher who was expecting better. Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping to find the cache in good shape but I'm experienced enough not to expect it. I've always felt that cache ownership should be a honor and not a right. A right is something you're entitled to. A honor is something you've earned. Man that last part is pretty heavy handed, even for me. I promised myself I wouldn't do this. When I decided to get back on the forums I said "self, just make your point and move on. Don't get involved with the inevitable back and forth. When they ignore simple facts or present wild scenario's just laugh and turn the page." It's hard. It's so hard.

Everything about the caching experience is subjective except the condition of the cache itself.

I'll give you a real world analogy. I hired a new employee about 6 months ago. His primary job is to stitch boxes and he's quite good at it. I promised him I'd teach him how to operate the forklift. Over the past few months I've been doing just that. Today was/is an extremely busy day loading and un-loading trucks. He asked if he could hop on the forklift and help. Although he can operate the forklift he's not yet experienced enough or fast enough. Because of his inexperience he'd be (1) very slow. (2) wind up breaking units that would need to be fixed and (3) asking a lot of questions which I really don't have time to answer. He's a good kid and I hate to burst his bubble but I understand the value of experience. I understand we're talking about Geocaching here but the principles are basically the same. Until he becomes more proficient and understands the job better, I'll have to bring him along slowly and give him work I know he can handle. The last thing I want to do is put him in a situation where he's over his head and becomes discouraged. What if it was an employee that wasn't washing the cars correctly and as a result the owner went out of business. I'm sure it would be a big deal to that guy.

Yes and If it's a particularly nice film can I'll give it a favorite point. To me quality is subjective. Good cache maintenance is more tangible.

So we're weighing the probability of a new cacher hiding a great cache with the probability of the same person leaving the game and their caches after 3 months. The only way this makes any sense is if it's all about the find count. "I need more new caches to find in my area and something like this would hamper that, soooooo." IMO this has nothing to do with "quality" caches. There's a reason why finding a Geocache is free and anyone can do it. There's no commitment involved. People can come and go as they please. Being a cache owner is very much different. Any good cache owner out there can attest to that. I'm pretty sure it would take much less time implementing and enforcing a 3 month rule than it dose dealing with the abandoned caches set out by newbies.

We always seem to have the same basic views on things. It's when it gets down to the basic common sense of something we seem to but heads. Someone who has Geocached, even for a short time, would have a better grasp of the idea of geocaching as opposed to someone basically new to the game. That's a simple fact that applies to most things, yet for some reason you don't think it applies here. I'm not saying that someone with 100 finds would be a better cache owner than someone with 10. What I am saying is the experience would increase the likelihood.

If you had to choose would you rather have someone with experience fix the breaks on your car or someone who has no idea where the breaks are? I'd rather have someone with some Geocaching experience hiding caches for the same reasons. Why, because I've got a better chance of stopping once I leave the garage.

I'm not trying to pick a small segment of the Geocaching community and apply these ideas to them. This is more of a big picture thing. If we're going to cite individual situations as a reason not to discuss the possibility of an idea then we're wasting our time here. I can take every idea formulated on the forums and find a scenario that would shoot it down. doesn't mean the idea isn't worth talking about.

If I personally like a hide I give it a favorite point. Other than that I judge a good hide versus a bad hide based on the condition of the cache, which is what we're ultimately discussing here. If they're happy zip tying a micro to a tree and they maintain it, I'm happy. How someone maintains their hide is much more important than what they hide. I'm thinking more along the lines of a typical new cacher. The idea probably wouldn't work with the specific example you give but I don't think that's how new cachers are normally introduced to Geocaching. On the flip side how about the cacher who has just started playing and hides 20 caches only to realize a couple of months later that they either don't have the time to maintain all of them or geocaching just isn't their thing. Propensity to me means they enjoy Geocaching and seem to want to stick around. There are no guarantees either way. I think having some sort of moratorium on new cachers being able to hide caches would help in many ways. Besides what's the rush? I think most people who are serious about Geocaching and possibly hiding a cache wouldn't bat an eye.

If an individual is finding mostly micros I'd assume they would wind up hiding micros either because that's all they've seen or the area they live in dictates it. Micros can be hidden well or poorly so finding a 100 of them would give the potential cache owner some useful information. I have limited computer knowledge but I would think it would be a simple thing to look at a 25 mile range around the new cachers location and come up with a formula that would work. For some being able to find each type of cache in varying difficulties and terrains could be challenge. To me It's not important what caches they find or hide but that they demonstrate a propensity for Geocaching. I don't think this is about perceived "quality" as it is about dedication and commitment.

To be honest I'm not 100% convinced myself that something like that would work. On some level it dose make sense and is worth looking at.

Sorry Coachstahly. I was writing my response to NiraD when you posted this. I think my response to Him/Her may answer your initial question.