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Everything posted by justintim1999

  1. This example is based on real life experience. The point is he's not ready to be a full time operator. He need a little more seasoning. No different in Geocaching. I could have simply thrown him into the job. Sink or swim. That wouldn't have been fair to him, me, the company or the customer. Sometimes people are willing and eager but not quite able. Don't you think most people who really wanted to become cache owners would agree to wait 3 months? Doesn't the simple fact you have to wait indicate that this is something special and they just don't give these opportunities away to just anyone?
  2. Why else would you be in favor of allowing a brand new cacher the ability to hide a cache? There are way more downsides to allowing this than there are positives. The one positive is the potential for "more caches to find!". If better cache maintenance is what everyone wants than isn't this just one piece of that puzzle? at least make sure the person is going to stick around before you let them hide caches all over the place. Personally Finding a broken, moldy caches doesn't faze me a bit. I feel bad for the next cacher who was expecting better. Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping to find the cache in good shape but I'm experienced enough not to expect it. I've always felt that cache ownership should be a honor and not a right. A right is something you're entitled to. A honor is something you've earned. Man that last part is pretty heavy handed, even for me. I promised myself I wouldn't do this. When I decided to get back on the forums I said "self, just make your point and move on. Don't get involved with the inevitable back and forth. When they ignore simple facts or present wild scenario's just laugh and turn the page." It's hard. It's so hard.
  3. Everything about the caching experience is subjective except the condition of the cache itself.
  4. I'll give you a real world analogy. I hired a new employee about 6 months ago. His primary job is to stitch boxes and he's quite good at it. I promised him I'd teach him how to operate the forklift. Over the past few months I've been doing just that. Today was/is an extremely busy day loading and un-loading trucks. He asked if he could hop on the forklift and help. Although he can operate the forklift he's not yet experienced enough or fast enough. Because of his inexperience he'd be (1) very slow. (2) wind up breaking units that would need to be fixed and (3) asking a lot of questions which I really don't have time to answer. He's a good kid and I hate to burst his bubble but I understand the value of experience. I understand we're talking about Geocaching here but the principles are basically the same. Until he becomes more proficient and understands the job better, I'll have to bring him along slowly and give him work I know he can handle. The last thing I want to do is put him in a situation where he's over his head and becomes discouraged. What if it was an employee that wasn't washing the cars correctly and as a result the owner went out of business. I'm sure it would be a big deal to that guy.
  5. Yes and If it's a particularly nice film can I'll give it a favorite point. To me quality is subjective. Good cache maintenance is more tangible.
  6. So we're weighing the probability of a new cacher hiding a great cache with the probability of the same person leaving the game and their caches after 3 months. The only way this makes any sense is if it's all about the find count. "I need more new caches to find in my area and something like this would hamper that, soooooo." IMO this has nothing to do with "quality" caches. There's a reason why finding a Geocache is free and anyone can do it. There's no commitment involved. People can come and go as they please. Being a cache owner is very much different. Any good cache owner out there can attest to that. I'm pretty sure it would take much less time implementing and enforcing a 3 month rule than it dose dealing with the abandoned caches set out by newbies.
  7. We always seem to have the same basic views on things. It's when it gets down to the basic common sense of something we seem to but heads. Someone who has Geocached, even for a short time, would have a better grasp of the idea of geocaching as opposed to someone basically new to the game. That's a simple fact that applies to most things, yet for some reason you don't think it applies here. I'm not saying that someone with 100 finds would be a better cache owner than someone with 10. What I am saying is the experience would increase the likelihood.
  8. If you had to choose would you rather have someone with experience fix the breaks on your car or someone who has no idea where the breaks are? I'd rather have someone with some Geocaching experience hiding caches for the same reasons. Why, because I've got a better chance of stopping once I leave the garage.
  9. I'm not trying to pick a small segment of the Geocaching community and apply these ideas to them. This is more of a big picture thing. If we're going to cite individual situations as a reason not to discuss the possibility of an idea then we're wasting our time here. I can take every idea formulated on the forums and find a scenario that would shoot it down. doesn't mean the idea isn't worth talking about.
  10. If I personally like a hide I give it a favorite point. Other than that I judge a good hide versus a bad hide based on the condition of the cache, which is what we're ultimately discussing here. If they're happy zip tying a micro to a tree and they maintain it, I'm happy. How someone maintains their hide is much more important than what they hide. I'm thinking more along the lines of a typical new cacher. The idea probably wouldn't work with the specific example you give but I don't think that's how new cachers are normally introduced to Geocaching. On the flip side how about the cacher who has just started playing and hides 20 caches only to realize a couple of months later that they either don't have the time to maintain all of them or geocaching just isn't their thing. Propensity to me means they enjoy Geocaching and seem to want to stick around. There are no guarantees either way. I think having some sort of moratorium on new cachers being able to hide caches would help in many ways. Besides what's the rush? I think most people who are serious about Geocaching and possibly hiding a cache wouldn't bat an eye.
  11. If an individual is finding mostly micros I'd assume they would wind up hiding micros either because that's all they've seen or the area they live in dictates it. Micros can be hidden well or poorly so finding a 100 of them would give the potential cache owner some useful information. I have limited computer knowledge but I would think it would be a simple thing to look at a 25 mile range around the new cachers location and come up with a formula that would work. For some being able to find each type of cache in varying difficulties and terrains could be challenge. To me It's not important what caches they find or hide but that they demonstrate a propensity for Geocaching. I don't think this is about perceived "quality" as it is about dedication and commitment.
  12. To be honest I'm not 100% convinced myself that something like that would work. On some level it dose make sense and is worth looking at.
  13. Sorry Coachstahly. I was writing my response to NiraD when you posted this. I think my response to Him/Her may answer your initial question.
  14. Would an initial minimum number of caches a new cache owner could hide be something to look at? I think the main issue is how (or can) GS limit the number of new hides by new cachers. We already have mechanisms in place to deal with existing owners and caches which would work if everyone used them and used them correctly. I realize that nothing is perfect and any attempt to read into an individuals motives or intentions is almost impossible especially when there's no history to go by. Having said that wouldn't a certain find count provide some sense of how good or bad someone would be as a cache owner? For example. If an individual was required to find 100 caches before being able to hide one of their own wouldn't that indicate they have some level of staying power in the game and would be more likely to take cache ownership seriously? Wouldn't the experience of finding 100 caches give someone the sense of how caches are hidden (good and bad) I think the logs on those 100 caches would tell you something as well. Do they enjoy the game. Did they post a DNF or a NM? None of this is a precise indicator of how someone would be as a cache owner but wouldn't it provide some insight on what we could expect. I do realize that some locations are not cache rich and finding 100 caches would be a monumental task but maybe, in those locations, the number could be adjusted. Just something to think about.
  15. In your opinion what would be a good measure of the likelihood a new cacher would be a good owner?
  16. I must confess I have a separate bag full of all sorts of items I take when making a cache maintenance run. In fact I have two bags as one of my series requires a whole different set of items and tools that would be needed to fix issues. It took several trips back and forth from my caches to realize this would save me a lot of time. It would save me even more time if I could remember to re-stock the bags. For some strange reason pencils and pens I originally place in caches seem to last. Maybe I should start putting three or for of them in each cache so people who've forgotten or lost theirs can take one.
  17. I agree. There are situations where deleting a log or find is necessary. I'm only suggesting it be done after careful consideration and not as a matter of course. A note to those reading this that cache in the Massachusetts area. If you don't have something to write with when you've found the log book just look around. There's a good chance you'll find one of the pen or pencils I've lost in the general area.
  18. Yup. Sometimes you have to get creative in the way you hide it. This may seem strange but I think I would take the vandalism as a personal challenge. I'd keep the general location and devise a hide that would fool them. As a cache owner I'd find this fun.
  19. The forest is Littered with pens and pencils I've lost over the years. I have a habit of slipping them under the edge of my hat which I can't seem to break. The following is not a response to the OP's situation but only my thoughts on the subject of not having a pen. I understand the importance of the guidelines and I agree we should all do our best and try and follow them. I get a little worried when I hear of logs being summarily deleted if for no other reason then the guidelines say you should. In some cases logs should be deleted. Before I'd even consider taking that step I'd personally want to be sure it was justified and I wasn't deleting the log of a good cacher who really did just loose their pen. Since I believe that people are inherently good, it isn't hard to pull the wool over my eyes so I'm sure over the years a few cachers have gotten away with an undeserved smiley. I'm equally sure some really did loose their pen and in those cases I'm glad I choose to bend guidelines a little.
  20. Although the process can be a long one, if your committed to hiding caches in the area this is the best way to proceed.
  21. Most of my caches require a moderate walk or hike to get to thus I see very little in the way of vandalism. If possible try finding a spot that will take a little effort to get to. You can also get creative with the hide and the camo so only people who are actively looking for the cache will find it.
  22. Somewhere between these two quotes lies the answer
  23. I see what you're saying. I enjoy caches that involve a good hike myself but I'll stop short of intimating that my brand of caching is the best and only way to do it. That's why I laugh when I hear people complain about the way others cache. If they're caching within the rules and they're having fun than what's the problem? For me the only down side to the park-n-grab mentality is fewer more traditional hides being hidden for me to find.
  24. I'm with you on this one. The only real trouble I've ever had caching involved parking. To me there's nothing more frustrating than driving around in circles looking for a safe, legal place to park. Especially when the cache owner has already identified one but for some reason is unwilling to share it.
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