justintim1999

IMO a dnfs should be included in calculating the overall health of a cache. How much should they be counted is up for debate. I think what gets lost here is that multiple dnf have always been a red flag. Their original intent was to help determine if a cache was indeed missing. If used properly it's useful information that shouldn't be dismissed.

If that's true than obviously something needs to be fixed. Has anyone contacted their reviewer or GS for clarification?

How many were not false positives? The e-mail is obviously automatically triggered when a cache has reached some set of criteria right? So there has to be something about the cache that should be looked at. That's basically all the e-mail is asking the cache owner to do. We can debate tweaking those criteria but the idea of the reminder e-mail isn't what some are making it out to be. In other words it's not that big of a deal.

What else is it about. Big brother? Power to the people? If that's the argument than spare me. This is a game and they make the rules. If I don't like it I can pack up my things and go home. I'm willing to live within their guidelines and I'm happy. We all have a choice, unfortunately some choose to complain.

The only difference is that the majority of cache owners can take a leisurely stroll and check up on their cache. High D/T caches not so much. In turn anything that may increase the chance of having to potentially visit the cache site (like the CHS) is a bad thing. I get it but we can't simply ignore potential cache issues just because it's inconvenient to check up on them. That doesn't send the right message either. So what else can be done?

Just because you haven't' noticed it doesn't mean it isn't happening. Have you ever been a reviewer? We've had a few reviewers chime in on the subject and from what I gather it helps them do their job. But I guess their testimony doesn't count because you personally haven't seen a benefit. In fact you've been a victim of the negative aspect of the activity so it must be all bad right?

If I had to guess I'd say there were many of these e-mails sent out and I'm sure some of them were false positives. I'm just surprised that Coachstahly has only received two and that seems to be enough to send him/her off the deep end on the subject. You keep talking as if just one dnf causes all this to happen. Believe it or not I've had two dnf's on one of my caches at some point and never received anything from GS.

Although I'm not going to laugh at that suggestion because I think there are things like this that could be done, I have to say all cache owners should be considered equal . Therefor the rules and guidelines should apply to all. Also by doing something like this you're basically admitting that It's just too much of a pain to maintain caches with a high D/T, and by owning one you're somehow exempt from the rules that govern the rest of us. Unfortunately in some cases it may just be the case and that dose make me sad. So what do we do about it?

I think It's kind of like the ignore button. If there is one most will opt to use it instead of actually looking into the possible issues.

So we're all up in arms about two e-mails? The answer to why is because I believe the vast majority of caches that would benefit from this e-mail are owned by people who may not be as dedicated to the activity as you and I. I think that the CHS was implemented to help the woefully understaffed review department as a way to try to increase cache quality and deal with the millions of caches now out there. For the most part I'm on your side. Owners with high D/T caches are having to absorb a disproportionate amount of the issues caused by the CHS but that doesn't mean it's not making a positive impact. The question is do we trash it because it may negatively effect some caches or do we try to look at the bigger picture?

It may stop some new caches from trying to find caches that are beyond they're abilities. Some caches that are available on the free app probably shouldn't be.

Preclude any possible issue? If you've been around a while you know there's no such thing. Have you ever received on of these e-mails?

Nice work. OM logs are a cache owners (and finders) best friend.

I've read the e-mail and unless it has changed I still don't see what the outrage is all about. There is nothing in that message that makes me feel like I'm being harassed. If problem is constantly receiving the e-mail then we can discuss.

Maybe part of the problem is a disconnect with your local reviewer. If it did have a high D/T cache and was receiving this reminder e-mail I'd look at the logs and determine whether or not a visit was required. If I thought the cache was fine I'd simply ignore it. If my reviewer disagreed we'd have a discussion about it. If they still thought a check was in order I'd go out and do that. Point is regardless of what I may think, my reviewer has the final say and if they're convinced I should check up on it I will. I don't spend hours upon hours of my time designing caches with the primary goal of self aggrandizement. In other words I don't need constant praise to continue doing what I'm doing. To me find counts are much more important than favorite points. If your D/T accurately reflects the cache than by all means don't change it. I know of a few that are rated much too low and probably receive more dnfs than they should. Adjusting the D/T on these caches would help reduce dnfs. I get this type of response mainly from long timers who either can't or won't change their perception of what they think Geocaching is today. Instead of changing with the times they choose to cling to the past. Geocaching will never be like it was 15 years ago. It's not possible. Technology and the sheer number of players has seen to that. This automated e-mail is a direct result of those changes and IMO necessary in dealing with the vast majority of caches that are out there today, the majority of them being low D/T. The Geocaching app is a perfect example. I think it was a good idea because it opened up Geocaching to many more people. I think it was a bad idea for the same reason. The difference is I'm willing to deal with the issues the app has created and change how I operate within the system. I'm willing to endure a couple of e-mails because overall I think they have a positive effect on a much bigger segment of the cache owner community. I wonder how many people have actually received this e-mail? I'd also like to know of those who have, how many were justified? So to bring this full circle I'd first like to apologize to the OP for derailing yet another post. I'd also like to congratulate them on placing the cache and actually caring about people finding it. Continue keeping an eye on your cache and if you think there's a problem check it out and make a few changes. Also, don't be afraid to contact your reviewer if the need arises. Regardless of how they are portrayed here in the forums they are Geocaching fans as well and are there to help.

I know it's a tough pill to swallow but here it is. If you're going to place high d/t caches than be prepared to maintain them like any other cache. You do understand that the rules and guidelines need to apply to all right? Dose that little, probably automated, e-mail reminder really outweigh all the positive logs I'm sure your caches receive? Most of what we're seeing from GS was not intended to target your type of caches although I agree it could put a greater burden on those owners. Most of you are big boys and girls. You know how this game works and should be able to understand the bigger picture here. What are these numerous incidents you speak of? Multiple dnfs? Adjust your D/T. Multiple NMs? Upgrade the container, hide it better or put in a bigger log. If any of these things irritate you than you should archive your caches because this is all part of being a cache owner. What else would cause you to archive your caches other than you don't want to be bothered with them anymore?

Now now. You know that's not true. I'd like to see as many caches out there as can be properly maintained. I'm surprised you used the example of a wet log. That's a perfectly good reason for a NM as well as an owner visit. Maybe your reading into that e-mail based on your own personal experience. You're definitely not taking it at face value.

I'm not saying it couldn't have been a contributing factor, It very well may have been. My view is this. If that particular e-mail (which is really nothing more than a friendly reminder) would cause you archive your caches you're probably not cut out to be a cache owner. What's going to happen when the real maintenance work needs to be done? I applaud the OP for checking up on the cache at the first hint of an issue. I just hope they posted an owners maintenance log each time they did. If I received one of these friendly e-mail reminders my first thought would be "I should take a look at what's going on with my cache" not "This is too much, I need to archive it". To me the former is the mindset of someone who wants to be a cache owner. The latter is someone who likes the idea of being one.

This was in response to fizzymagic intimating that the reason the cache was archived was because of the "nasty e-mail". I think that's BS.

Free range Geocaches

That's how I see it. If at the first sign of trouble you pack up your things and walk away, maybe you're not cut out to be a cache owner. You need a little more chutzpah than that.

You can't stop those who choose to cheat the game so the question becomes, are the future cachers who will play the game right worth it?

I'd love to go caching with ya but I live in Massachusetts. By the time I get to Utah you'll be a seasoned veteran. Have fun and be safe.

I've only found one cache that contained decoys and I didn't mind them at all. In fact, for me, it added to the overall enjoyment of the cache.

This is the route I'd go. If you do receive permission and are dead set on placing a physical cache there, please take the time to understand and accept the limitations involved. The idea of keeping the cache simple and within close proximity of a trail will go a long way toward protecting the natural habitat. It will also win you points with the powers to be and possibly make hiding additional caches in that location possible. Good luck.