justintim1999

Man that sounds like a whole lot of work. I was thinking of something GS could do to make that process easier. I like your willingness to play ball though.

Then doesn't it make sense to log a note and explain "I found your cache but I couldn't retrieve it to sign the log" and let the owner figure out what to do? Even if the cacher explains the situation in a dnf log it still a conflict. The log itself says "I didn't find it" but the note inside the log says I did. That in itself is a reason for choosing a note. Is it so hard to understand that as the activity grew, so did the need for oversight and management? The only real issue I see with the whole thing is poor owner maintenance. Everything that's been implemented points to managing that one particular aspect of the game.

I've said exactly what I wanted to say and why. I do understand that different people choose to post online logs differently. I just don't agree with some of them.

You want to just say it " I understand why a note is a better choice than a dnf in this situation but I'm not going to change the way I do things" You're almost there, but not quite. I agree with the negative perception some cachers have of posting dnf's and I don't agree with it at all. It's a log that should be used freely, in the proper context. All you can do is encourage people to use it and hope the perception changes. Problem is I do care and would like to see the game become better and stronger. I was taught when you see something that you believe is not right you don't just walk on by and expect it to fix itself.

I think your last sentence is part of the opposition here. Some people use dnfs as a record keeping tool so they can keep track of caches they've attempted. There should be another, easy way of doing this without having to use a dnf.

We're so close to actually agreeing on something. Kind of exciting. The only sticking point is in the planning to complete the cache. IMO regardless of intent if you haven't reached the point of actually searching for the final I don't think you should post a dnf unless one of the stages or the final couldn't be found. What if the multi was 10 stages and you intended to do it in one day only to find you had return three times to complete it. dose that mean since you intended to complete the cache each of the previous two days you should post 2 dnfs?

I hope that's true. I would think that all the people in this discussion would understand why a dnf would be wrong in this case. There are many other arguments regarding the pros and cons of the CHS and DNFs here on both sides that have merit. IMO this isn't one of them.

Thank you. I thought I was the only one who could see that. It could be your suffering from the same bout of common sense I am.

The effect they have on the CHS makes the case for avoiding those other uses for me. This is why I've been advocating for a little truth in logging. If dnfs are going to be counted against a caches health score doesn't it make sense we define when to use them a little better?

We know it effect the CHS but it can also effect the cache owner as well. My caches are not overly difficult so a dnf means something to me. I read my logs, so if the cacher explained the situation in the log I'd know that the dnf had nothing to do with the condition of the cache. It's doesn't matter if you agree with the CHS or not. It's here and it's being used so why post a log that you know doesn't accurately reflect the situation and could have a negative effect on the cache to boot?

So my question to you is, if you know that a dnf can be seen as a negative in some instances, why post one when a note will convey the intended information without effecting anything? It's a simple change in philosophy that could make a difference. I'll give you what I think the answer is. Because this is the way some have played the game for ever and no matter what, they're not going to change. If that's the case that's fine. Just come out and say it and stop trying to avoid the obvious. People are reading what's being written here some will take it to heart. Are we going to continue to push practices we know at not sound just because we're to stubborn to change?

The criteria that's clearly written in the Geocaching help center under "Log types/didn't find it. The one thing your forgetting to mention is logging it online. To log a find online you have to sign the log. Lets assume that by doing that they have found the container, retrieved it, signed the log and replaced the container. In this case the criteria to log a find has clearly not been met. The question becomes "what do I log". The answer is clear. Since your found the cache and you know it's not missing the only other option is write a note. I've given you examples of why I don't think a dnf is appropriate in this situation. Give me your reasons why you think it is.

It's human nature not to want to look week or inferior in front of your peers. No shame WHAT-SO-EVER in posting a dnf. Hey guess what? Some movies make me cry. Some things are so beautiful I can't help but ball my eyes out. I may be weak or soft..... But I'm happy They need to add a crying emoji. We could sure use one in here.

That's true but how dose anyone look at the OP's situation and come to any other conclusion than a note is the correct log? Especially when the regulars on this forum know the various reasons why a dnf shouldn't be used. I hate quoting the help center but...... Use a “Didn’t Find It” (DNF) log when you look for a cache but do not find it. DNF logs are an important log type — they inform cache owners and other finders that a cache may be extra difficult to find or possibly missing..... How in any way can you endorse the use of a dnf in this situation when neither criteria in the above guideline fits. The only answer I can come up with is stubbornness.

What can you say when people are unwilling to change even if that little change could make a difference. Maybe the CHS isn't the real problem here.

Most of the time it takes eleventy billion threads to get people to admit to the obvious. Even then, sometimes, it's hopeless. We both agree a dnf shouldn't be used in this case and I believe we're right in thinking so. A note is harmless and can convey the appropriate information without any impact on the condition of the cache.

Considering what we've been discussing regarding the CHS don't you think that posting a dnf in this case could wind up having a negative effect on the cache? If that's true than why are we not looking to define the use of the dnf log?

In this situation I don't see anything valid about it, do you? If that's so than the only thing I don't understand is why you don't stick to what you believe.

If you feel that a dnf isn't appropriate why list it as a valid option? I think we both agree it shouldn't be.

Thanks

I don't think you can deny that overall the app introduced more people to geocaching than otherwise wouldn't have tried it. All caches should archived by the owner. That's part of the deal and a sign of a good owner. Can anyone tell me when the App was released?

Why would you allow me to log it as a find? It was my choice not to climb the tree and retrieve the cache so I'm not entitled to l the find. Lets say you had this cache's D/T rated too low and I had no way of knowing I'd have to climb a tree to retrieve it. In that case you as the cache owner have every right to offer me the find if you feel it's the right thing to do. The question is should I log a dnf. If you Did Not Find a cache it's because you went looking in the right spot or it's missing. In this case neither is true. This is why I think a note is the best course of action in this situation.

Plastic peanut butter jars work great if you do a little waterproofing to them. Take the cover off the peanut butter jar. find an old bicycle tire inner tube and cut it open. Lay it flat and, using the cover, trace a circle with a sharpie. Cut it to fit the inside of the cover. Take some gorilla glue or JB weld and glue the rubber circle inside the cover. Should make a nice solid seal when you put it back on the jar. For about $2.00 I drilled a hole in the center of the cover and inserted an eye bolt so I could hang it. If you decide to do that make sure you put a metal washer on the bolt first. Then a rubber washer. thread it through the top. On the back side put on the rubber washer followed by the metal washer and tighten it all up with a nut. You can put a little glue around both sides of the hole before doing this to sure everything up. I've had one hanging from a tree for over 5 years now and have never had a water issue with it.

I agree but I think having an experience/longevity requirement on placing caches would help solve this problem. I'd hope most experienced cachers would understand what they were getting into placing a power trail series. We had a series of 62 caches that you were required to find to gather the info for a puzzle cache. Those 62 were split up and hidden by 6 different people. These were placed by experienced cachers who understood that maintaining a series like this couldn't reasonably be done by one person. Sometimes it's necessary to place restrictions on things to keep good intentioned people from inadvertently going wild.

I'm sure the app has also added a bunch of great finders and hiders to the game too. I like the idea of the app because I think it should be easy for everyone to give finding a cache a try.