GhostWolf

I don't think the DNR (Department of Natural Resources) has much to do with the ruling other than enforcement. I think they are binded by contract to adhere to the mission statement of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service because through the Pitman-Robertson funds the DNR is receiving money for their property from the USFWS. Other states have nothing to worry about because Michigan's DNR and USFWS have a unique relationship unlike any other states. That's why I think the people that we really want to deal with is the USFWS. Forget the DNR they are just following orders because they are forced to because of the funding they get from the USFWS. I think the best thing we could do is somehow try to get some of the money used to buy GPS units to go towards the Pitman-Robertson funds, much like the same way ammo is taxed and is then appropraiated towards Pitmann-Robertson funds. If geocaching can somehow contribute to P-R funds in any sort of way then the USFWS will be forced to change their ruling due to the fact that Geocaching will then be considered an activity that will "enhance wildlife".

The Sierra club sued the Forestry Service here in Michigan, I think in 96 for the alleged "Wrongfull distribution of P-R funds" I think that the basis of their argument was the fact that the Forest Service would use P-R funds to go in and clearcut an area of forest in an attempt to regenerate aspen. The newly regenerated aspen was thought to enhance habitat for deer. Sierra club said that under NEPA contract rules all that land should have been tested/studied to make sure that it was actually enhancing wildlife but the Forest Service was not testing it. It was ruled that the P-R funds were inherently good for wildlife and therefore did not need to be studied to make sure it was enhanicing wildlife. Forest Service won and Sierra club lost. Because of that lawsuit P-R funded lands are not subject to NEPA contract rules even though they are federally funded properties. So it does have a very large impact on what we're talking about. Bottom line is that the USFWS is too puckered up in the south end. It makes it look like the USFWS has something against geocaching. Why? All they said was that geocaching is not compatible to whatever their wildlife goals are. All I'm asking is give me a few reasons why it's not. They can't do that? Why sould they? According to the results of the Sierra Club lawsuit they don't have to because the land is funded by P-R and therefore automatically considered "inherently good for wildlife". How is snowmobiling and illegaly dumped trash good for wildlife? USFWS/DNR didn't seem too quick to pick up that trash because the stuff we picked up had been there for a while. The way I see it we did more good for wildlife in one afternoon than the hunters in the area have for generations. I'm also taking this ruling by the USFWS as a direct slap in the face.

If the USFWS is funding these state lands then what is the DNR using the money for. I think that all of us have the right to know and I think this is a valid question. Is this equation right? Morally? More USFWS Land = More land for hunters = More hunters = More Funding for P-R funds = More and more land controlled by USFWS = Gigantic P-R funds = Less state land not under grants of the P-R funds = Less and less places to geocache.

I am getting more and more confused with this issue the more I read about it. As I remember the Sierra Club had a lawsuit against the Forest Service for unlawful distribution of P-R funds. If the Forest Service is allowed to have access to P-R funds it would seem that some of our State Forests would be off limits too. Why does the USFWS consider that geocaching is in violation of their land granted by the P-R funds. They aren't an enforcing or a regulating agency so why do they feel they need to waste time regulating our geocaching community and our caches. By the looks of the state game area that we just cleaned up just over a week ago they certainly aren't spending too much time regulating much of anything. Certainly not trash being dumped illegaly. Also the formula for the P-R funds is completely lopsided. For example I'm a hunter and I pay for a liscence just like everyone else in MI. I don't hunt on public lands but I still contribute to P-R funds? This doesn't make sense. So basically we have a case where I am paying money for someone to tell me I can't use public property that I am wrongfully being taxed for.

I don't consider e-mails inquiring about your bug as harrassment. I think that being upset if it doesn't move within 7 days is ridiculous. Some people only can cache on weekends. Well probably more than half. I don't want to see half the people in a sport not be involved in an aspect of the game because of some unrealistic rule like "you have 7 days to move a bug or you can't play". -Peace GhostWolf

What is the deal?!?!? I don't see how people get so frustrated with not being able to see their TB bounce across the world from the confines of their comfortable chairs, with eyes glued to a computer monitor. Have people forgotten what geocaching is about or what? I certainly do not want to try to help contribute to moving a TB along if I have to be hounded by some person harrassing me from their computer desk to go out and take my time to drop their bug off. When I release a bug I am doing so to enjoy watching what it does without my involvement other than placing the tag and dropping it off. It seems to me like some people place their bugs into the "wild" and then try to conrol their bug by commanding (like some sort of war general) to get out and place their bug within a week. I don't visit caches more than once and I have done all the caches in a 30 mile radius. I go to college. I bowl on a league. I have a girlfriend. It snows here. It rains here. But I like to contribute to moving bugs on the rare occasion that I find one in a cache that I find. So all you TB pushers why don't you look at your bug as property that is owned by all geocachers since the ones that are helping to move it are actually putting in some time and dedication to your bug. Not to start any arguments but just trying to throw some more light on the subject and get some other points out there. -GhostWolf

I can see how you can get frustrated over something like this but try looking at it from a different point of view. This game is new for a lot of people. It is constantly evolving and this is what is fun and exciting about it. You have a huge amount of creative minds out there that are trying to come up with everything from mini-games to themed geocaches. I personally wouldn't have a problem with someone doing this to my bug but then again I'm not ten years old and then again my excitement from geocaching doesn't come from sitting behind a computer watching a travel bug bounce across North America. I enjoy the new ideas and concepts that evolve as more people play. In this game their is no room for closed minds. You must keep an open mind when you play. If it were me however I would have immediatly respected the bug owners wishes and tried to get it on its way as quickly as possible. I may then be less apt to never want to even mess with the thing again. I am getting the impression that a lot of people are disappointed with the bug. My suggestion is to not even bother with it. I liked the bug idea at first, but if you live where it snows than it could become a hassle to deal with the owner hounding you to freeze your butt off out in the snow and creates for an unenjoyable geocaching experience. Let's not make this game labor intensive before it even has a chance to evolve

I don't understand the problem. Geocaching is a form of recreation. Has the National Park system forgotten who funds their forest operations. WE own the public lands THEY are the stewards that help maintain the parks. If we have found a new way to recreate than we should at least be given the option to do so on public lands as long as we are not destroying habitat for endangered animals and making it difficult for park "rangers" to follow rules and regulations set forth by our government. Since I have been geocaching I have visited more parks in more states than I ever have in my life just in the last month. I have also spent more money on camping sites and park passes than I ever have previously. The NPS needs to recognize this as a legitimate hobby and not bite the hand that feeds. I don't understand how they can allow liabilities such as hunting in some parks but yet a few tupperware containers "laying on the ground" are a problem.

I wanted to place my own cache a while ago but I am moving when I graduate therefore I can't upkeep my cache here unless I keep my girlfriend around. There are a lot in this area that I am at right now and not a lot where I am going. I figured that if I spent as much time as I have focused on hunting than I can spend more time hiding when I move. Maybe to promote the sport in that area and encourage more people to hide so I can find them. I am moving to the UP. (Marquette) and last time I looked there was only one hidden in the area. I am disappointed and not sure what I am going to do. Does anyone have any good experiences searching for a cache that they hid?

I was just wondering how I was doing compared to everyone else. I have had a GPS unit for a little over a month and have logged a total of 35 finds, in 5 different states and 1 country. I was wondering who has logged the most finds. In how many different states/countries. Multiple visits to the same cache or state/country don't count.