Sadie

Some of us enjoy the LPC as part of the outing. Running with the pack has a feeling all it's own and although we may enjoy others more, the LPCs are good also. One undertone I have seen through this entire thread is "LPC's suck because I like something else better". While others are saying "other things are great and LPC's are OK". So, just becasue some folks have a different point of view doesn't mean the others are wrong. Although the specific words are not there, it is still heard. In other words, we see "good, better, best" instead of "bad, OK, and good". Many folks seem to miss this. I find this post belittleing to folks that don't feel the same way that you do. Take off the blinders, you can see more that way. </rant>

I have fun running with the pack and lifting skirts all day. Other days the pack likes to run the mountain trails. Why take away half our fun? And please don't try to convince me it's not fun. Because it is. Live with it.

I wouldn't complain if it was in Vegas, but I wouldn't want to be there during the summer... --Marky Yeah, Vegas would be great in Oct/Nov or March/April. Maybe ou8alizzard will volunteer for next year Or maybe you could do it? 99% of the work is done by phone.

If there were 50 caches in the park, would it be 10 cents per find?

Forced? Why do you say forced? Please do not assume that all folks have your standards. Some folks look forward to the adventure. Even if some are not as fun and as pleasant as others, we still enjoy the outing as a whole.

I dunno. Maybe yes, maybe no. As this thread is revealing, "yes" or "no" is situational. The UK is OK with bridge caches, Idaho is not. City bridges are assume OK though? Foot bridges? A large container under the Golden Gate is a bad idea, but a keyholder under a city footbridge is OK. What about a decon container 30 feet away. Linky

Interesting, I didn't know that. <snip> This is a valid point. It show that just because a person has been caching for years doesn't mean they will not place an illegal cache. In this case, no real harm, if you moved to the UK, you wouldn't be placing caches under bridges in the UK. However, if a UK resident of 4 years caching experience were to move to the US, then they could place a cache under a bridge not knowing better.

Virtuals were naturally selected out because they were in fact NOT geocaches. Thank goodness geoGod is on my side on this one. GeoGod just has a little too much patience and instead needs to pick up his iron sceptre and end this once and for all. The problem will continue to grow and spread like a cancer until something is done from the top to stop it. I'm not sure I agree completely here. Virtuals were pulled out so they could be included in Waymarking, as were locationless caches. I would state the arguement that geocaching is more a nutural geoEvolution and Waymarking is more geoCreationism.

I see both sides effecting the progression. The first geocachers were techno-geeks if you will. The people that had GPSr's paid a lot of money for something that was only accurate to a football field. These were the folks that had a GPS the day that SA was turned off. Dave Ulmer placed a 5 gallon bucket on the side of the road. No hike required, irt was about the technology, not the scenery or the hike. The next people were the hikers and backpackers. The cost of the GPS's dropped and the hikers used them to track thier hikes and adventures. And they started geocaching. Then the suburbanites started getting GPS's for $100. It was a cool toy and they could find 35mm canisters under lamp posts. Now we have people that are trying to control this growth. Some plant more micros. Others complain about them. Some hide ammo cans on top of hills, others complain about the long walk.

When you are hungry, what fills you up faster? One big fish that takes all day? Or several small fish that take a half day? Or snacking on one small fish to pacify the apetite until you have a chance to go for the big fish. Keep in mind that in many parts of the Northern Hemisphere, the part of the lake where the big fish are is frozen over.

Remember the 'pain in the butt' rule? I think the PITA concept kicks in about the time that folks forget that this is just a game. When people take it too seriously and/or too personally, then they can become irrational. If they don't figure out how to control it then they get in trouble.

Which is why virtuals aren't really geocaches. I have yet to encounter one virtual cache where the owner had hidden something for me to find.... Since my philosophy is that geocaching takes me to places of interest, then from my perspective, virtuals are geocaches. The challenge is to find the information from that plaque or whatever it is I am looking for. This is why I am an advocate of the total count of places visited. I like numbers. I like them a lot.

Oh, give me a break. Not just you, but all of the Eternal Defenders of Waymarking. This is well past the "I don't understand" phase and into the realm of intentional misunderstanding. I mean, it's not like the difference between Waymarking and virtuals hasn't been expressed what seems like a few hundred times by many different people. Some of them have been quite clear and eloquent. Look, I will try to explain it one last time. Not likely to make any difference, but maybe another concise statement of it will finally get through. A geocache is an implicit challenge: "I have hidden X; can you find it?" The best virtuals were challenges. The challenge is what draws me to geocaching. Waymarking, on the other hand, is about sharing. "I've found a cool spot. Come look at it." A completely different gestalt. While sharing spots is nice, it doesn't excite the same kind of passsion in me that the challenge does. Now, I understand that many caches are not, in fact, real challenges. That's not the point. The point is that caching is set up as a challenge, and Waymarking is not. People have tried to express this in many different ways, including the loss of "mystery," etc. I appreciate that you have tried to build a Waymarking category that captures a little of what is missing, but, in my opinion, it will not work, because Waymarking is simply not about challenge. And it can't be made that way. The Eternal Defenders of Waymarking flock to every thread of this kind, explaining in detail how Waymarking is just like virtuals, until somebody points out that they are not the same, at which point the EDW group explains that Waymarking is not the same as virtuals, but better, and then somebody else points out that you can't do a PQ of waymarks, at which point the EDW group explains that Waymarking is still incredibly new and that its deficiencies are somehow all our fault. The whole process is astonishingly predictable, and incredibly tedious. Oh, and for the record, please listen to this very, very carefully: IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NUMBERS! I agree and support everything said here except ... I know that Numbers are important to many many many cachers!

When we go night caching in the desert, I get a glow stick tied to my collar so my best friend knows where I am.

When I talk to local cachers, the predominant feeling is that virtuals are cool. To there is nothing wrong with answering a question on a highway historical marker or plaque someplace, especialy if it's in a National Park. Inject the idea of making these waymarks and there are two basic responses. First, it's too complicated. You can't just type in coordinats and go. You can't just come across a location and submit it. Catagories must be approved, submissions need to go through a committee, blah blah blah. The second and most predominant is... it doesn't increase my count. It IS about the numbers. I realize this is is a sensitive statement and not politicaly correct to state this in these forums, but numbers do count. As one guy said... "I am caching. I am not going to take pictures and get the coordinates for a McDonalds or a flagpole if it doesn't increase my count. If it does, then I will waymark every pizza parlor and roadside marker in the state." So, my thought is to put your waymarks found / owned on the profile page somehow. Like benchmarks, they don't increase your geocaches count, but they are there. Another idea is to put in a "locations visited" total which includes all geocaches, benchmarks, waymarks, etc and incorporate that into your stats. Personaly, I like Waymarking. Although I also have trouble "just browsing" the site, the concepts are good. Perhaps when I have a little guidebook to carry with me that has a list of catagories, I will participate more.

will second the leash concept for the dog's sake.. and okay, not to mention people who don't like dogs or are afraid of them as that isn't being very thoughtful.. but me I think of the dog first, sorry.. national parks - it's illegal at the Big Bend at least for them to be on the trails, let alone off lead state parks here.. lead is required. dogs can find rabbits and you think it's funny maybe but what about snakes, skunks, or if they chase a deer (illegal, again) then what? so I'm asking, seriously.. is there Anywhere not your own property that you can let a dog run loose and be legally correct? I know people DO it, but is it the thing to do? Around here I can't think of any open land where it would be legal. I can think of places where it would get a dog shot. Or the owner fined. So when I read about people running into loose dogs I think Where? Places with irresponsible owners is all I can think of! Like some country folk who leave them loose and they run off or maybe city people who have a dog get loose. But people taking a dog for a walk and letting it run loose? I don't see that sort of thing. Myra with two dogs - always on lead except on a friends property where yes we've met a skunk or two. and yeah sometimes Su wishes we could find a place she could run free a while! Sounds like you are in a totaly different situation than I am. After a long talk with my vet, we decided it wasn't a bad idea to get a Rattlesnake Vaccination. I have seen 5 rattlers in the past year and a half, so the risk was high enough to warrant it. One was in hibernation and I walk past it 6 or 7 times without noticing. Off leash is legal in most areas, and where it isn't, it is as much enforced as driving 66 in a 65 zone. Geocaching is fun, but I hate a lot dirt roads.

I seem to missing something. Folks asked for a mega geocoin event in Las Vegas. Other than the opportunity to go geocaching, what part of this idea is not geocoin related? Is it the "mega" that was put in the OP? Because if it is only geocoin, and not geocaching, then it's not a geocaching event. Or is it? I think you folks are gietting what you asked for. If it isn't, please enlighten me on what is missing? Thanks

I would put a big smiley face on every cache I find. Some exist so that others look that much better. Some are in stinky places, but that's OK. I haven't been there before. Walmart carries my favorite trade item, tennis balls. Please put a cache in the parking lot for me. I cache to get out and have fun. If I wanted to sit around and whine, I would hang out in the forums all the time.

Is this only about coins? or is there mroe than to it than that?

The heck with the caches, I go for the Jerky in my master's geo-bag!

fixed.

My reviewer can beat up your reviewer.

It all boils down to "who cares". I really don't care if I meet CR's criteria, or Kacky's or anyone else. I am out to enjoy my day, if I log as a team, if I log as an individual, if my tam mate isn't there, or if my buddy saw it first... I/we went to the location. I/we saw what the cache hider wanted me to see. I/we logged the cache. Or maybe I didn't log the cache. Maybe I/we never went to the cache and logged it anyways. What's "right" is what makes us feel good. Around here, folks stopped giving special recognition to folks with the most finds. We do give recognition to folks that help keep the sport fun, no matter how many finds or hides they have.

It's not about "finding", it's about the location. Some would argue that tricky hides should be against the guidelines since they often result in the destruction of landscaping. The trails through the garden, and the broken tree branches. 100 finds on a cache probably means 125-150 people (once you cont couples and kids) all poking and prodding at an area. To some of us, the cache log is just a formalty when we go to a great location that someone was kind enough to share with us. And sometimes.. it's not finding the cache, but retrieving it that's the issue.

I suppose you would also tell the artist of this picture that it doesn't deserve to be shown in public? I am shocked. Absolutley shocked.