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Everything posted by Docapi

  1. If somebody wants to make this a competitive sport, that is their issue, not mine. Just because they wish to have a competition doesn't mean that everybody else has to participate to their standards. I choose not to compete with anybody, if they want to compete with me, that is their problem. It is impossible to compete by the numbers anyway. A 1/1 parking lot micro counts 1 find, just like a 5/5 3 day hike. I could see a competitive person having an issue with that, but we are not about to tell people that they cant log caches under a certain difficulty level to make Mr. competitive happy. The event wasn't listed on Terracaching or Navicaching, it was listed on here. The argument could be made that since the Event was listed here, then the caches were here. LOL, I think that many people are bothered by people policing their stats for them, too. Many People are bothered by a lot of things, micros in parking lots, caches that are too easy, caches that are too hard, too long of a hike to the cache, no hike (parking lot caches), Virtuals, multis, etc, etc, etc,- just about every cache is going to have somebody that has a problem with it of some kind. Some of the things that people are bothered by in just this section of the forum in the last 2 days: Golf Balls Cleaning junk out of caches Cemetary Caches Poison Ivy Lack of Diversity in the pictures on the main GC.com Page Hard Caches/Easy Caches Micro Madness writing "SL" in logs Virtuals, and logging them Locationless Caches If we banned everything that some people didn't like, we wouldn't have many caches left.
  2. The Garmin V comes with the Mapsend software, and 2 unlock codes. One for the V, and one to spare.
  3. I think some of the recent posters may have misunderstood what this thread is about. We are not talking about fake logs, or fake caches. They were real caches. I don't think that it is really in dispute whether or not actual caches were found and logged. The issue is whether those caches should or should not be logged, since they were not listed seperately on the GC.Com website. Many people feel that it was improper to have logged each cache at the event, since they were not listed individually. Their stance is that it should not count as individual caches, since they were all lumped under one listing. One cache page one log. Others feel that it is one cache, one log, regardless of how many cache pages are used to list them. I don't feel that it is really a question of cheating, or lack of integrity. It is a difference of opinion on what exactly justifies a log, and what doesn't. I can tell you that when I made those logs, I thought that that was the way it was done. I did not feel like I was cheating, or displaying a lack of integrity. I thought I was logging caches that I had found.
  4. I sat at work today, bored as usual, so I spent a good portion of my shift writing what was to be my next post on this thread. I have to say, it was brilliant! An absoloute masterpiece of logic, philosophy, common sense, and persuasiveness with some Karma sprinkled on top for a little extra "Zing". It was so good, that I was certain that all of the "hardliners", to borrow the term, would instantly be swayed to my way of thinking. As I finished it and started proofreading (in case you didn't notice I tend to make a lot of typographical errors LOL) when I suddenly realized- "What difference will it make?" No matter how much discussion, the "log 'em all" contingent is never going to change it's mind. They feel they are right, with very good reasons for feeling the way they do, and that is just the way it is. The "Hardliners" feel just as strongly that they are right, they also have very valid reasons for their opinions, and are not going to be swayed any more than the "log "em all" crowd. Thats just the way it is, too. The one seemingly possible avenue for compromise between the 2 sides was quickly and completely shot down by TPTB, and I am sure there were valid reasons for that as well, even if they weren't expressed. When that is taken into consideration, it seems that there will never be an amicable resolution to the issue, so it won't make any difference at all, other than to further raise the angst level on the forums, and make myself look like more of an a** than I really am. In the end, you only have to answer to yourself. If you feel right and just in logging them, go ahead. If you don't feel that it is right, then don't. It is just a game, one where the numbers are meaningless to anybody but yourself. Will log them next time? I honestly couldn't tell you. I don't know if a few smileys (deserved or not) is worth the level of angst displayed here- on both sides. But I will never condemn anybody on either side of the issue, or label them "cheaters". I guess that is what got me riled up in the first place, and it went from there. Whether or not you log them has no effect on me, so I have no reason to get upset about your stats either way. That being said, I do hope that if I ever cross paths with any of you on step 9 of a 12 step multi, that we can shake hands as friends and go get the rest of them together. Then I can run home and double log 'em all- need to get those stats up!!!
  5. With my V, moving my arm just a foot or 2 is enough for it to sense the movement and point me in a new direction. I just went out and tried it. Even with an EPE of 32 feet, moving my arm about 10" to either side was enough to sense a direction change, and the pointer swung around. Moving 10" back the pointer swung 180"
  6. I don't think anybody is advocating the option to list temporary caches. I know what I was suggesting was adding an option when logging on an event page in the drop down list like "Event Cache Found" or something similar. When it shows in our stats it could have a different icon for caches found at events. 1. All the caches found at an event could be counted. (for the people that feel a cache is a cache) 2. They would be seperated from the regular caches in our stats. (for the people that feel event caches are not the same as a regular cache) 3. The approvers wouldn't get swamped with cache approvals for the events 4. The server wouldn't get bogged down with tons of extra pages when an event occurs. 5. Events held at places that would not allow a permanent cache would still be able to have caches at them that would count for something. 6. There would only need to be one "attended" log for each event. It seems to me that it would be a "win, win" situation for everybody. As I said before, though, I dunno how the programming would work or if it is feasible. I think that is the point that I am trying to make. I had 56 finds at the event, and by logging them, they show up in my history.They are a part of my geocaching history. Since we are not in a competition, and we are not awarded points for finds, It would seem to me that whether or not they count the same as a regular cache would be irrelevant.
  7. LOL, I'll give it a shot. Ok, say you are walking directly nort and directly toward your waypoint. You are holding your GPS up right in front of you. The Gps can tell that you are headed directly north. The Compass pointer will be pointing straight ahead, since that is the direction of the cache. The Receiver always assumes that you are holding it upright in front of you. Now you stop. When you move the reveiver a few degrees, you moved your arm sideways to do it, right? Lets say that you moved your arm to your right. Because the V does not have a compass, it assumes that you have turned 90 degrees and are now moving east, since that is the direction that the receiver just moved. Since you are theoretically moving east, the pointer will swing towards its left side, thinking that is north. If you now move back to the center position, it will think that you have turned around and the pointer will swing 180 degrees to reflect it. How was that? Clear as mud, eh?
  8. His (Mopar's) point is that it might be impossible or extremely difficult to do the programming that would be required to make it possible for the Temp caches to show up as a different Icon in the stats. He has a very valid point. I have no Idea what it would take. OT: Mopar, I just clicked the Human Rights link in your sig. I am liking you better all the time!
  9. Yup, so the stats would be completely accurate. My stats would show 1 event attended, and 56 Temp Event Caches. No more confusion, no more accusations of "inflating" or "cheating" in my logs. No it wouldnt, thats the point you and chuck have missed. Since you are logging it on the event page, it would still count as events attended in your stats. Adding the ability to record and track multiple cache type finds on the same page would probably entail a MAJOR reworking of the current database and a large portion of the website. I would doubt that a feature like that would have been programmed in for future expansion. And all that time that could be spent adding to and improving the useful features (like the new locationless and virtual section) would instead be diverted to a cache type that is not officially supported and a practice that is only common in a few regions of the world. You never made that point, so I couldn't have missed it. You went on about the local approver having to approve all of the temp caches, nothing about programming issues related to having different icons on one page. I actually did say that in my earlier post: I am no programmer, so I have no idea if it would be feasible to do. However, if it were feasible I think it would help to alleviate the controversy.
  10. That would be up to the Event organizer to decide if they wanted the page cluttered up like that. Yup, so the stats would be completely accurate. My stats would show 1 event attended, and 56 Temp Event Caches. No more confusion, no more accusations of "inflating" or "cheating" in my logs. Good point, here. But at least you would know they were Temp cache logs from an event. You would have to read the logs themselves to get the name of the cache. Is knowing the name of each cache that somebody has found really important, though? Especially since the cache would no longer exist? Again, that would be part of the decision that the event organizer would have to take into consideration when they decide to allow logging the Temps at the Event.
  11. I am guessing that what you are thinking is to have a "temp cache found" option when logging on an event page- all of the caches would be logged on the one page- and then have an Icon that would reflect those logs. I do think that would be a great idea, it is one of the suggestions I made in an earlier post. It would make it so the approver would not have to go throught the approval process with each of the temp caches at the event, and then have to archive them all again. I dunno if is would be possible, though. The Icons might be based on the Cache or Event page icon, without the ability to differentiate between different types of logs on that page. I do think it would solve the controversy, though. Of course, the problem with that would be that the forums might get pretty boring.
  12. If you haven't done any caches yet, Id get the Gecko for the $50. Play with that one for a while, and if you want to upgrade then go for the V. You could get your money back on the Gecko on E-bay or the forums here pretty easily. The 60 or 60cs is a really great unit, but even though you could get one of them for around the $325 mark, you would still need to get the software for another $100. The V comes with the software, so you need to figure that into your budget. $275 for the V is pretty steep. They can be found for $230 or even less with a little looking. I see no need for 2 GPSr's The V will do everything the Gecko 300 can, and then some.
  13. Hi guys! Everytime I turn around, there you are! There is one in Cadott. 5 miles east of Wissota on 29. It is part of the memorial tribute at the truck stop there.
  14. Because there is no other way to log them. Actually, since some people seem to feel that they shouldn't qualify as regular caches, logging them as "attended" at least seperates them from the regular caches in your stats. It would be better if you could log "event finds" or "temp event cache finds" instead, but we don't have that option. I don't understand that. How are my stats meaningless? List of items found (All Cache Finds) Name Count Traditional Caches* 37 Event Caches* 56 Travel Bug Dog Tags 3 *Total Caches Found 93 Notice- it says "Event Caches", not "Events Attended". It is pretty obvious what I have done. I have found 37 regular caches, and 56 at an event- one more click will tell you how many events I was at. My total caches found is at 93, that is accurate for how many caches I have found- 37 regular caches, and 56 at events. To me, that is more accurate and meaningful than if I only had the 37 + 1 for the event. I am afraid you lost me there. By the strictest defenition, they do play pro- they do get paid for it (pretty well I would imagine). I am sure you mean why aren't they in the NBA, though. I think the response you are looking for is because they don't play according to the rules. That is true, their style of play would not be allowed in a regular NBA game. But, does the style of play used by the Globetrotters taske away from the fun of a regular NBA game? I think not. To relate it back to Geocaching, we are not professionals. We don't get world Championship rings, we don't get paid to geocache. It is a game, just for fun, and whether or not a person has 2 find or 2000 effects nobody but that individual, especcially since in this case they are not really bogus logs, just ones that the logging system is controversial.
  15. What false facts? the above example shows fact, not false facts. You need to look a little harder. there are only 2 events listed on the page you link to- neither one of them the event in question- but there are 6 pages of events. See at the top of the page? Yeah right there where it says: As I said, get your facts right before slinging mud. MountainMudBug, The Campout was in a WI State park. WI has an "is not allowed" policy at this time in state parks. We got permission to place the temp caches, but all of them had to be removed immediately after the event. No permanent caches allowed. I don't know if a permamanent cache would help this issue, though. I guess I would think that logging a permanent cache repeatedly would be much more misleading than loggng an attended repeatedly. The way it is now, it at least does distinguish between regular caches and event temp caches. Anybody that wants to figure out what exactly I have logged can tell pretty easily the difference by looking at my stats page. If they were logged on a regular cache page, it would look really bad, like I logged the same cache over and over. I actually kinda like the Idea of One cache being entered as a multi. We could have a bonus cache for anybody that finds all the other caches. Then the other caches could be considered "legs" of the multi, and each cache could be logged as "legs" of the final cache. But that would just open another can of worms.
  16. Ah... if only life was that simple. Exactly. I found 56 caches that day- so I logged 56 finds. Not a real complicated concept, eh? And for those that arter saying "It wasn't listed on GC.com- yes, it was Right Here Before you start slinging the mud, at least take one quick second to check your facts. A quick look at their stats, or even Heaven forbid reading the whole thread before posting would have told you that there were only 33 caches at this one event, and the others were spread out amongst 4 other events. I am all for a good debate, but mudslinging, especially based on false facts that would have only taken a moment to verify are simple small-mindedness.
  17. Ford had some kind of promotion- buy a new $40,000 truck, get a free $250 GPS type thing. They got the Garmin v's in for the promotion. Now the promotion is over, and some of the dealers have some of the GPS'es still on the shelves. My Brother in law is a parts manager for Ford, I got it for the best price that he could come up with at $199. You might want to give your local ddealer a shot- even try dickering with them a bit. One they get them off the shelves there will be no more.
  18. That is what the previous person should have done, rather than take it upon themselves to move somebody elses cache, especiallt 400'. That is almost far enough away to qualify as a new cache! I think you were right to put it back where it belongs. I (at least until my palm decided to commit suicide by jumping off the roof of my car) usually cache by looking at my GPS to see what is near, and then looking at the cache description on cachemate. I Will look to see if the last log is a found, but I don't and cant look further back than the last 5 logs. I would not know if somebody decided to put the cache in a "better" location.
  19. I can see both sides of this issue, but in my opinion, a cache is a cache, whether it is a micro at Walmart, or an event cache. True, the caches are not listed individually on the website, but that is for a couple of reasons. First, the State Park that we had the Campout in would not allow permanent caches. We had to remove the caches on the last day. Second, it would have created one heck of a burden for the local approvers to have to approve each one of the over 70 caches that were placed for the event. It just makes more sense to put them all under the event page, and log the caches there. Another point is that the event caches do not show up on our stats as "Caches Found" they show as Event caches, which is exactly what they are. If you are that terribly concerned with policing my stats, my stats page pretty clearly shows what I have done, and when I did it. My suggestion to clear up the controversy would be to add a new log category for events called "temp finds" or something similar. We could log the Attended, and then log "temp Finds" for the caches at the event. There could be a Temp cache icon in our stats. Then our stats page would show things more accurately. Traditionals would show as traditionals, Events attanded would be the number of events we attended, and temp caches would show how many caches we found at the events. That way, the event organizers would only have to make 1 page for the event, the approvers wouldn't have to be deluged with requests for temp cache approvals, the naysayers would have nothing to gripe about since the temps would be logged properly, and the people that worked their butts off to find the temp caches would get their deserved credit for them.
  20. In the interest of accuracy, the team in question only logged 33 caches at the campout, not 100. The 100 number is from 5 different events. Also, all of their logs were for actual caches, they just did a little wordplay with the names of the caches. For example, the log about "walking down steps for a find" referred to the cache called "12 Steps", that was near the bottom of a flight of steps going to the lake. I attended that event. There were over 70 caches at that event. Real caches- almost all far off road- no parking lot micro's here. There were several multi's that only counted as one cache. There was even one multi that ended with an underwater cache. I walked over 18 miles that day, and found 56 myself. Yes, I did log them. I loaded coordinates in my GPS, walked anywhere from .15 to .25 miles through the woods to the coordinates, found a cache, and logged it. Just like all of the other caches that I have found, with the exeption of the urban micro's, where I didn't have the walking or the woods part. Do I feel that I "cheated" or "padded my numbers" by logging them? No. To me, my stats would be far more innacurate if I hadn't logged them. The only innacuracy would be that they show as "attended" instead of "found", but there is no way to log a "found" at an event. Like I said, I worked just as hard, if not harder, for those caches than I have on most of my other finds. I guess I feel that a cache is a cache, whether it is a Micro in a Wal-mart parking lot, a 10 miles each way 5/5, or a cache at an event. As far as mailing the Cache owners, that would be the WI Geocachers Association. Logging the caches was discussed amongst the membership, and it was decided that it was appropriate to log each cache.
  21. I met Commander Bob and Major Brat at the WI Goe Campout. I found them both to be very nice, pleasant people. They both seemed to be the type to not beat around the bush, but I am sure that they did not mean to offend you, rather to offer constructive criticism- which you did ask for in the cache description. As far as the "100 event logs" thing, there was about 65-70 caches placed for the campout that weekend. I found 56, and had to walk 18 miles to do those. They were real caches, a heck of a lot tougher and harder to get to and find than most of the other caches that I have seen, and the WI Geocachers Association- who sponsored the event- supported logging the caches. The 100 event logs that they have are from 5 different events, not just the one.
  22. After some heavy duty research, I just upgraded from a Magellan 315 and bought a Garmin V. I got it from a ford dealer for $199 + tax. Why? It came with the CitySelect software, auto mount, and 12v power cable. I would have had to buy all of those seperately with any other unit. I figure that the accessories would have been over $150 to buy seperately, so I look at it as I got the receiver itself for $50
  23. Ive been playing with my new Cityselect software that I got with my Garmin V. I have figured out how to do autorouting, but it seems that when I try to plan a route with more than 1 waypoint it automatically takes you to the waypoints in the order you click on them, or you can manually re-order them and recalculate the route. What I am wondering is if there is a way to enter in the waypoints, then have the software figure out the best route that will hit all the waypoints, regardless of order. Say I want to do a cache run, with 10 caches. I could care less which one is first or second, etc. I would like to be able to enter in all 10 caches, and a starting and end point, then the software could figure out the best overall route that will get me to all 10 caches and back home again. Is there any way to do this, or do I just have to keep changing the order around manually until I come up with the best route?
  24. I think the best "bang for the buck" deal right now would have to be the Garmin V for about $230. (Check your local Ford dealer- they were running a promotion for a while on them- I just got one for $199) It comes with the cityselect street meps software, PC cable, auto cord and mount. It isn't USB, but I am never in that much of a hurry. It all depends on what you are looking for in features. If all you want to do is be able to locate caches, the Etrex Yellow will work fine, although for only 30-40 more you can get the Legend, that will do maps and comes with the data cable- you would have to but map software though. I aggree with the others- stay away from one that will not download from a PC. It takes forever to input a bunch of caches by hand, and one digit error can make for a really bad trip.
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