BrownMule & Jackrabbit

I agree with the majority, it's definately a not found. This also brings up a good point. Should there be a code that is issued when the cache is approved that only the hider is given that can be placed in the cache. This code can be required to log the cache as a find. The code can also be made up by the hider at the time they submit the cache for approval. Just food for thought. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

Grasping at straws here but it worked for me. I found that in about 50% of my hunts that I am more accurate with WAAS disabled. I also find that It is more accurate Half the time with WAAS inabled so it all depends on your current location and current satelite position I assume. So next time you hunt try it both ways as see the difference. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat: quote:Geocaching.com policy says to contact the public lands agency to acquire about their rules on Geocaching. So their answer can be. 1. No Geocaches, then do you still hide? 2.Caches are ok with permission, then do you get permission? 3. Caches are ok and no need for permission, then you go hide There is a 4th...they have no policy. As far as your last question, there is a big difference between asking for permission and inquiring about existing policies. If you ask for permission, you are in effect asking them to officially approve of the sport. If you are asking them if there is a policy, they may say yes and explain it to you (anything from a total ban, to pre-approved sites), or they can say there is no policy. If it's the latter, I do not see why a cache can't be placed. No policy doesn't mean approval, or a ban. It means that they don't want to (or can't) put their necks on the chopping block by giving official sanction, but have no problem with it. _"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues"_ -Abraham Lincoln I agree with most of what you are saying. But some agencies like the NPS actually use another rule to enforce the no Geocaching policy. I beleive it is their abandoned property rule. So it's always good to explain what you want to do so that it does not conflict with another rule already in place like littering or abandoned property. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

quote:Originally posted by TAT:What a timely discussion. I have been in a quandary for about 3 weeks now. One of the local geocachers put on an event cache. He asked if anyone nearby would like to put in a couple of one day caches. I found a nice spot and everyone who liked it suggested that I make it permanent. Out of respect for a cacher who had already placed two in the same park, I asked him if he thought third cache would be too much. He was very much in favor of another but he had not asked permission for either of his caches. I was reluctant to add it without permission and reluctant to ask permission for fear that he could lose two caches. But, after reading some of the responses here, I re-read the geocaching.com rules. The rules state: "If you place it on private land, please ask permission before putting it there! If you place the cache on public lands you need to contact the managing agency to find out about their rules." So if you believe that "if there is a rule you should obey it", you must at least find out what their rules are. It also doesn't say that you must ask permission on public property. In fact, the rule specifically states "If you place it on private land, please ask permission before putting it there!" If the rule planners had intended to require permission on public land, they would not have needed to differentiate between public and private lands. Geocaching.com policy says to contact the public lands agency to acquire about their rules on Geocaching. So their answer can be. 1. No Geocaches, then do you still hide? 2.Caches are ok with permission, then do you get permission? 3. Caches are ok and no need for permission, then you go hide. So anyway you look at it you have permission if you follow the rules unless you hide when they say no caches allowed. The other point is that it really does not matter what Geocaching.com rules are, the public land agencies set there own and you are bound by them. I don't really see the difference anyway in asking for permission and asking what their policy is. means the same thing to me. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

quote:Originally posted by Criminal: quote: First my sarcastic remark to criminal about "my park" was only because he was clouding the issue and his remark meant nothing to the conversation. He was interpreting something out of context just to get back at me. _Brownmule, I didn’t say anything to “get back at [you]” I made the comment because many who work in the parks act as if it were their property. I also do not say “my Air Force Base” when referring to McChord. Further, the comment does not cloud the issue, it _is_ the issue, I made it the issue by mentioning it. _ quote: Some parks allow pets, some don't, some parks allow alcohol, some don't, some parks allow Geocaching some don't. _Correct, and if I see a sign displayed at the park entrance that specifically forbids geocaching or mentions a permit is required, then I’ll get one. If I do not see a sign, I give myself permission. _ http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/ First of all I am not "Many who work in the parks and second if you only obey the posted laws you break alot of laws. But appearantly that does not concern you. Posting a law is not required to enforce it. I don't care how you refer to where you work, just don't put words in my mouth. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

MycoCache,I agree with you totally. I do want to make myself a little clearer on a couple of issues. First my sarcastic remark to criminal about "my park" was only because he was clouding the issue and his remark meant nothing to the conversation. He was interpreting something out of context just to get back at me. To clear up my view, I am only talking about getting permission when it is clear and known that the land owner or manager requires permission. The reason that I require Geocachers to obtain permission is because my superiors say that I must require it and approve the hiding place. Now that being said, I do not think that in all cases permission is necessary. I do not however agree with the statement that if you don't ask for permission to play Frisbee then you should not have to ask to Geocache. Laws are made for whatever reason, most of the time we don't know the reason but they must be obeyed. Some parks allow pets, some don't, some parks allow alcohol, some don't, some parks allow Geocaching some don't. My take is to find out what is allowed and then do the right thing which is to obey the law or rule or policy. I do understand that some people don't obey all laws but I don't have to agree with it. When you deal with park lands how do you know if you are treading on fragile areas if you don't ask. Would most of us know one endangered plant from another? Our biologist reveals new protected species to us on a regular bases and we must add these areas to our protected sites. Last week alone we discovered a rare species of Pitcher Plant in the park and had to route foot traffic around it while still allowing folks to see it and enjoy it's beauty. A few months ago a Bald Eagle built a nest near a service road and we had to establish a 700' buffer from the nest to all traffic. This is required by federal law. This restricted the movements of the park staff only and in no way impeded vistors.(See we must also obey our own laws) I also know that there would be no need for police officers if everyone obeyed every law. So now those are the reasons you need ask for permission. Not so that some puffed up park manager can flex his ego, but so that we can assure that the Bald Eagle will return and that the endangered pitcher plants will survive for all to appreciate for many generations to come. Also I think it is great that we are Americans and can express our opinions and isn't it wonderful that we don't always have to agree. Just My opinion. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers. [This message was edited by BrownMule on May 08, 2003 at 10:42 AM.] [This message was edited by BrownMule on May 08, 2003 at 10:44 AM.]

quote:Originally posted by TEAM 360:Don't ask if you don't have to. Why cut your own throat and run the risk of a "no" if you don't need to? Then you've just lost a nice area to cache in, and you didn't even have to ask in the first place.... And if they are found by the owner/managers you just put another black eye on the rest of us and the sport so yea, go ahead and screw it up for everyone. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

quote:Originally posted by Criminal:

quote:Originally posted by Criminal:Most places do not require permission to place a cache. I don’t ask permission to play Frisbee in the park, I won’t ask for geocaching (hiding or finding) either. If the rulemongers get their way and push nonsense like that through, I’ll lie. You have to understand human nature. If I ask you for permission to do something you’ve never heard of, and you aren’t aware of any prohibition or acceptance of the thing, you will say _no_. That’s a lot easier than finding out the real truth, and keeps you out of trouble. The only real authority to place a cache in a city park comes from the mayor and or town counsel, unless they’ve delegated the authority to someone else. For state or federal land, the authority is higher and more remote. My permission comes from common sense; I don’t have to ask anyone to apply that any more than I have to ask permission to wipe my @ss. http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/ Criminal you are so far out in left field that home plate is not even visible. I am a Park Manager and I have several Geocaches in my parks that I have approved. My agency gave me the authority to approve them. If they are placed with my permission so that I can assure they are not in a sensitive place, I will approve them on the spot. If they are placed without my knowlege they will be picked up and thrown in the trash. The only reasons to not get approval is if you think they will not be approved or if you are lazy. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

With all respect. These type virtuals are easy to find on the internet. I found at least one of the answers easily Here. on simple Google Search. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

I'm not interested in ranking, just having fun. Why complicate things by making this a competition. I like to think this hobby is just a way for families and friends to have a little fun. With competition comes more rules, hard feelings and less fun. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

A cache log is the history of the cache and includes accounts of the owner and those who have sought to find. All logs should be left as they are as they individually tell the whole story of a particular cache. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

I think that Geocaching requires several things that are standard equipment including: GPS'r, computer and software and I include Compass. So my vote is compass is not specialized equipment. I would however mention the need for it on your cache page. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

quote:Originally posted by welch: Does anyone bother to do a search before posting?? Does anyone ever bother to be polite? Yes it was asked before and it will be asked again. If it bothers you to see it asked again then ignor it rather than bashing a new Geocacher. It would be more appropriate to politely Markwell them to a previous thread. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

I think the thought is admirable Team360. It would take a little doing to work out the details to make it fair but I like the thought. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

O'Leno is one of the jewls of the Florida State Park System. Here is a link to their web page. O'Leno State Park Note: Because of the abundant and diverse wildlife found at O'leno no pets are allowed in the Campground. You can see deer wondering right up to your site. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

quote:Originally posted by RangerRick:For geocaching, I don't think there is any better unit on the market right now. Let the autorouting lead you to the cache area, switch to "off road" and the V will bring you to the coordintates you entered into it. Could not agree more. This is one fine unit. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

Congrats on the premium membership. You will enjoy the queries. This is really addictive isn't it? _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

Funny that nobody wants to discuss the real issue. You know that "P" word. Permission before you hide will make or break this game in the future. The sooner this is realized and made an absolute requirement the sooner we will be on the road to making this game an accepted hobby and rid the game of the outlaw image that some folks have of the game. There is no need for this to turn into another permission thread because it would be like the others, some agree some don't. We will just have to see who is right, time will tell. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

Had a person who logged one of my caches as a find today but says in the log that he did not stop to actually find the cache because it was raining. Would like your opinion on this please. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

The Poison Oak rash is cause by a chemical called urushiol. This is present in poison oak leaves, branches and roots. If you are exposed, take a shower immediately, no matter how long it has been. First make sure all the clothes you wore, including shoes, are in a separate bag, and wash them before touching them again. Do not use hot water. Calamine and similar lotions do not really help much. It may help a bit for minor affliction, but is basically worthless. Hydrocortisone is pretty useless as well. Some people can find relief from these products. If you can, good luck. But if it is bad, what you want is Prednisone. If it is very bad, go to the doctor. Prednisone, a type of steroid, is very effective but may increase the likelihood of infection with prolonged use, so they will only prescribe it for about a week's worth of medication in descending dosage. (Of course, if you have Poison Oak, I doubt you'll care very much about an itty bitty infection!) Atarax, or hydroxyzine if you buy generic, will make it itch less. It will make you very drowsy though. If your doctor does not know about these two medications get another doctor. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

quote:Originally posted by Scratchy and the Itchies:Thanks for all of the replys. To answer the main question, "what make it a virtual cache?" The location is on USFS managed land. I was going to make it a regular cache, but then I read that public land managed by USFS could not have a real cache. Scratchy was here!---- I have never heard of a policy by the USFS that prohibited caches. I may be wrong. When you make contact with them to ask permission to place the cache as required, you will certainly find out. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

quote:Originally posted by Breaktrack:I do not understand the resistance to virtual caches. I'm at a loss to explain why some individuals are so adamant about virtuals being relegated to some other site, or even done away with altogether. I know to some there should be some kind of inner sanctum of caching or something. No type of corruption or pollution as represented by those types of caches where no "box" is involved. I however look at things a whole lot differently. To me each and every type of cache has it's place. I would analogize it like this. What if you joined a bird watching organization because you just loved to bird watch and take field trips to find and view birds. One day a member of the club suggests that they would like to include hunts to view wild pigs and another suggests the group should branch out and have outings for viewing bear and then finally someone suggests that the group should have trips to view all wildlife. So now you have the bird watchers, the pig watchers, the bear watchers and those who watch everything and at the meetings no one can agree on what the field trip for next week will go to watch and the fighting starts. So the Bird watchers decide to break off and start there own club,etc..etc...I guess what I am suggesting is that maybe if you don't like to bird watch you should start a pig watchers group. Just my .02 _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.

quote:Originally posted by Gloom:I don't know all the circumstances to this cache, and neither do the approvers, but I don't see why this shouldn't be a virtual. My point is that everyone's thoughts of a good cache are different. I agree that caches should be of a unique/interesting nature and that each approver has their own opinion of what that is, but it should be pretty clear from the (limited) cache description that A) the cache poster thinks this is an interesting place and the city/state what ever must also if this place has plaques or monuments or something else to find the answers to the questions. There must be some sort of historical significance to it for that to happen. Therefore, it satisfies the requirements listed in the guidelines. No, maybe not enough to make a coffee table book out of it, but then that is only a suggestion. go ahead and flame... Not going to Flame you because everybody is entitled to their opinion and that should be respected. However I don't agree with you. I may agree that some virtuals are kind of neat but I was trying to give opinions on how to get a cache approved. Not what would be a neat cache or if it was my opinion if the virtual was worthy. The guidelines are the guidelines and I was just trying to help someone with how to get things approved under the current guidelines. The bottom line is hide something or show why you can't. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers.