ReadyOrNot

I don't know what Mr. Repak needed. As a cop, your job is to respond to the call and determine if a crime was committed, no? Yup, me too! Sounds like your beef is with the DA, not me. Going by your logic thus far, when a DA chooses not to prosecute a case, for whatever reason, they are condoning the crime that was committed? Right again! What are we arguing about? Oh yeah, somehow I condone theft because I think it's a waste of time to prosecute the case if they are only going to charge him with 1 count... And the DA is condoning theft if they choose not to waste time and money prosecuting 1 count of petty theft. Am I getting your logic correct here?

I'm trying to figure out how saying, "It's a waste of time and money to prosecute this guy" somehow equates to me saying that theft is OK and cool for the kids to do. Until they charge this guy with more than 1 count of theft, your argument is moot and doesn't hold a drip of water. Until then, how about debating on fact and not conjecture?

Oooh... Strawmen! I like it! So, you are equating me being forgetful/careless with my money, with someone intentionally stealing. OK... Boy, you missed this one by a mile. The person that stole your $10 is the person I am equating to stealing. You are purposely ignoring the entire point of my argument, because I suspect you can see the light. To what ends would you go to prosecute someone who stole $10 from you? At what point would you say, "Oh, never mind, they obviously needed it more than I did"... And when you reach that point, would you be condoning theft?

The question that keeps coming up in my mind is why this guy needs to make all his cache names dirty? Almost seems like an agenda to me.... An agenda to get attention....

Have you ever done anything wrong CR? Being justified is not the same thing. We use justification to do something wrong that we know is wrong. I've done many things that I knew were wrong, but used some justification so I would feel better about it. At no time did I ever think it was right If someone gave me an extra $1 in change at the grocery store, I feel it would be wrong for me to keep it and I would return it. Let me ask you this CR - Let's say you left a $10 bill on a table at a store and came back to find someone had taken it. You'd be bummed, no? Let's say you approached the manager of the store and told him that someone took your $10 bill and you wanted him to go through surveillance tape to find out who took it. The manager tells you that he will go through the tapes, but he'll have to charge you for the labor for the employee to get the evidence. How much would you pay to find the person who stole your $10 so you could prosecute them? Would it be worth it to go through all the time and hassle when you knew that when they caught the guy, he'd probably only get a slap on the wrist? Would you choosing not to spend the money to collect the evidence be advocating for stealing? Yeah... Sounds kind of silly doesn't it!

According to dictionary.com, the word can be used to mean "A slowing down or hindering of progress". It's also a music term referring to the slowing down of tempo. I apologize if my comment offended anyone. The comment was clearly describing an argument, not a person. We have many choices in life. Being angry is a choice. Being offended is a choice. Something to think about.

I think that you just answered your own question in your opening remark. What part of "Never" did you not really mean? This reminds me of something I was taught about raising children. Choose your battles. Sometimes my 14 year old does something "wrong" and I decide to do nothing. My not punishing him does not change the fact that what he did was wrong. According to your logic, my choosing not to punish him means that I condone what he did. Forgive me Sarah Palin, but that's a retarded position. According to my logic you are making the kid think you condone it or confusing the kid with mixed signals about what you believe regardless of your beliefs. So if the court just drops the case against Repak what is he going to think? If they drop the case, he'll thank his lucky stars.. Why would he possibly think that it means what he did was ok? Morality is not based on the law... The law is based on morality. I think you may have it a little backwards.

I think that you just answered your own question in your opening remark. What part of "Never" did you not really mean? This reminds me of something I was taught about raising children. Choose your battles. Sometimes my 14 year old does something "wrong" and I decide to do nothing. My not punishing him does not change the fact that what he did was wrong. According to your logic, my choosing not to punish him means that I condone what he did. Forgive me Sarah Palin, but that's a retarded position.

Yet you seem to be unwilling to take any steps to prohibit theft. Right? No calls to authority. No reporting of the crime. No law enforcement response. No investigation. No arrest. No prosecution. Sounds a lot like consent to me. Perhaps you think theft should be decriminalized? Perhaps at a certain dollar amount? You artfully dodged the ammo can question, while citing that you were OK with the theft of a $4 hide-a-key. Is that the point where theft becomes OK to you? $4? Theft is never ok, regardless of the dollar amount. The issue in my mind is that the ends do not justify the means in this case. If all they are going to charge him with is the theft of a $4 magnet, then what's the point? If I stole a bag of candy from Walmart, I honestly don't think the time and effort would be worth it to prosecute the case. That doesn't mean stealing candy is right, just that the ends don't justify the means. Walmart seems to have set that threshhold at $20. That doesn't mean Walmart thinks stealing is ok as long as it's under $20, just that they will not prosecute anything under $20. Do you see the difference?

I don't think theft is ok, as much as you enjoyed saying over and over till blue in the face. I just think it's a big waste of time. If they aren't going to charge him with 50 counts of theft, then drop the case and quit wasting everyone's time. If you can prove the guy stole more than the 1 cache, then show the evidence. If you don't have the evidence, then quit making baseless accusations... I keep hearing about how there's photographic evidence of Mr. Repak, but I haven't seen it, have you? And apparently it wasn't compelling enough to warrant additional charges... But, we're not interested in facts here, are we?

Why is it when people complain about travel bugs and coins getting stolen, they are told, "You must have an expectation that when you release a coin or TB into the wild, that it will probably not come back"... Well, when you place an item in a hidden location out in the world, I would say you probably aren't going to get it back. In fact, just making up numbers, I would say the vast majority of caches that are placed are never retrieved by the owner. They are either muggled eventually or forgotten about... That's about as close to abandoned property as you can get. When you place a cache, when exactly do you plan on returning to get it? You don't plan on returning to get it, do you? (and if you do, you are probably in the minority) Because trackables are exposed to fair more potential for peril as they are picked up and moved and pass through the hands of many (hopefully) people and are placed in many (with luck) caches. Caches are supposed to stay in one location, be found, opened, closed then left behind. The dangers of being stolen in somebody's car, lost in transit, mis-logged, lost at an event simply don't exist for a cache. Of the caches I have placed that are archived, I have retrieved every single one that was still there when I went to check on it. So, just for the record, you're confirming that your caches are abandoned property, yes? Yes, my caches are abandoned. When I put them out there, I don't have any plans of retrieving them any time soon. When they go missing, I don't call the police. If you want to go take them, I won't be happy about it, but i'm also not going to waste the time of the police on something so petty and stupid, when they could be out there dealing with real issues that affect more than just a game. I pay $8 for an ammo can. Lets forget about the cost of swag because, frankly, it probably won't have much in it after a month. OK... $8 isn't much. If someone stole ten ammo boxes a year,. would that be enough for you to consider it worth doing something about? Remember, these folks say that they have had caches stolen over a 10 year period. Again... 1 count of theft ... And I believe it was a hide-a-key container that Kayleo had mentioned, which was attached to a guardrail. Those are the facts. You can get a hide-a-key container for around $4. You can't really fit all that much inside the container, so I wouldn't think the internal contents of the container would raise the total value. A $4 hide-a-key container... If there were more charges, that might change the situation, but until then, enjoy your speculation.

Ok.. What if you find the bike 50 feet off trail in the woods, lying under a bush ? If it is not yours, do not take it. Simple. Alert the police, let them deal with it. If they can find the owner, great, if not you can get it from their abandoned property after a period of time. I'm just pointing out the difference. I think the difference is significant in whether the item is perceived as abandoned or not Since you have previously advocated stealing crappy caches you did not like (such as micros) as have gone as far as starting threads about it, perhaps the difference is whether you have abandoned your previous statements, or are trying to justify the similarities about your percieved behaviour. I've never advocated stealing anything. I believe the statement you are referring to is when I suggested throwing garbage in the trash where it belongs. I think that's another possible defense, that he was cleaning up abandoned trash. (there's enough of it around)

How many counts of theft is Mr. Reepak being charged with? How many would it take to meet your personal criteria for "not a waste of money"? That's the real question. Look, I get that we're at an impasse here. Let's just sit back and see how this pans out? That was not a retorical question. How many counts is he charged with? All this talk about the caches you think he stole has nothing to do with the facts of the case. If he is charged with only 1 count of theft (or maybe 2), your argument is bunk.

Yes, my caches are abandoned. When I put them out there, I don't have any plans of retrieving them any time soon. When they go missing, I don't call the police. If you want to go take them, I won't be happy about it, but i'm also not going to waste the time of the police on something so petty and stupid, when they could be out there dealing with real issues that affect more than just a game. Okay. Now we're getting somewhere. I'm with you so far. Same thing has happened to me and I've reacted the same way. It stinks, but we get over it. Now imagine a situation in which every cache you put out gets picked up every time you replace it. And it happens to all the other cachers in your area. Over and over again. And then they find they guy who looks to be responsible for it. Is this still a waste of the tax-payer's money to give him due process? How many counts of theft is Mr. Reepak being charged with?

Why is it when people complain about travel bugs and coins getting stolen, they are told, "You must have an expectation that when you release a coin or TB into the wild, that it will probably not come back"... Well, when you place an item in a hidden location out in the world, I would say you probably aren't going to get it back. In fact, just making up numbers, I would say the vast majority of caches that are placed are never retrieved by the owner. They are either muggled eventually or forgotten about... That's about as close to abandoned property as you can get. When you place a cache, when exactly do you plan on returning to get it? You don't plan on returning to get it, do you? (and if you do, you are probably in the minority) Because trackables are exposed to fair more potential for peril as they are picked up and moved and pass through the hands of many (hopefully) people and are placed in many (with luck) caches. Caches are supposed to stay in one location, be found, opened, closed then left behind. The dangers of being stolen in somebody's car, lost in transit, mis-logged, lost at an event simply don't exist for a cache. Of the caches I have placed that are archived, I have retrieved every single one that was still there when I went to check on it. So, just for the record, you're confirming that your caches are abandoned property, yes? Yes, my caches are abandoned. When I put them out there, I don't have any plans of retrieving them any time soon. When they go missing, I don't call the police. If you want to go take them, I won't be happy about it, but i'm also not going to waste the time of the police on something so petty and stupid, when they could be out there dealing with real issues that affect more than just a game.

What of yours may we steal, then? Can I come over tonight and take your lawn sprinkler? Apparently you wouldn't attempt to do anything about it.Or, maybe I'll take your kid's bike. Its used... can't be worth all that much any more. Surely you wouldn't report that to the police... it would just be a waste of time and money. Clearly, you can take his caches because they are just abandoned property in his eyes. Why is it when people complain about travel bugs and coins getting stolen, they are told, "You must have an expectation that when you release a coin or TB into the wild, that it will probably not come back"... Well, when you place an item in a hidden location out in the world, I would say you probably aren't going to get it back. In fact, just making up numbers, I would say the vast majority of caches that are placed are never retrieved by the owner. They are either muggled eventually or forgotten about... That's about as close to abandoned property as you can get. When you place a cache, when exactly do you plan on returning to get it? You don't plan on returning to get it, do you? (and if you do, you are probably in the minority)

Ok.. What if you find the bike 50 feet off trail in the woods, lying under a bush ? If it is not yours, do not take it. Simple. Alert the police, let them deal with it. If they can find the owner, great, if not you can get it from their abandoned property after a period of time. I'm just pointing out the difference. I think the difference is significant in whether the item is perceived as abandoned or not

Ok.. What if you find the bike 50 feet off trail in the woods, lying under a bush ?

Here we go again... Are we going to discuss what Mr. Reepak was *actually* in possession of? Or should we just assume he's responsible for every stolen cache in the country? I had a travel bug stolen that was very near and dear to my heart here in Portland, OR. Maybe I should blame him for that as well?

What of yours may we steal, then? Can I come over tonight and take your lawn sprinkler? Apparently you wouldn't attempt to do anything about it.Or, maybe I'll take your kid's bike. Its used... can't be worth all that much any more. Surely you wouldn't report that to the police... it would just be a waste of time and money. Apples and oranges. You speak of items actively used and possessed, while this case centers on what's basically abandoned property. So basically anything that's not in your hands at the moment is abandoned? I don't know about you, but half the caches I find would look like trash if I didn't know what I was looking at.

What of yours may we steal, then? Can I come over tonight and take your lawn sprinkler? Apparently you wouldn't attempt to do anything about it.Or, maybe I'll take your kid's bike. Its used... can't be worth all that much any more. Surely you wouldn't report that to the police... it would just be a waste of time and money. If someone stole an altoids can I left outside, I probably wouldn't call the police. If someone broke into my garage and stole an altoids can, I would probably call the police. We're talking about an item of extremely low value left outside. The value the owner places on it doesn't matter (legally speaking)

Rejected?!?! Because you reject something, that somehow translates to Groundspeak rejecting it?! The fact that you have rejected it and they've said specifically that they are going to do it speaks volumes about where your opinion falls on the spectrum. BTW - I vote "NO", because I disagree with the implementation as outlined by the OP. It would be a disaster if implemented as a 0-5 system. If you vote no based on the OP, are you against a rating system altogether, or just that one? I'm not married to that particular idea, I just figured I should suggest something to get the ball rolling. I like the idea of a system where users can give awards to caches they like. The awards would show up on cache searches as well as show up as a search option. Show me caches that have been awarded the "Most Beatiful Hike" award Show me caches that have been awarded the "Most difficult puzzles" award Show me caches that have been awarded the "Most well hidden" award Show me caches that have been awarded the "Ingenious Container" award I think you get the drift.. The only difficulty would be determining when the award would be given to the cache. After 1 person, 2 people? 10%, 20% of visitors?

I hope ya get my drift here. I do and I don't agree with ya. For what it's worth, if you made the data available, either from scraping the site or an API, I'd probably try starting my own site with the data... I think the current policy is a good survival policy and shouldn't change, but you probably already know that

Rejected?!?! Because you reject something, that somehow translates to Groundspeak rejecting it?! The fact that you have rejected it and they've said specifically that they are going to do it speaks volumes about where your opinion falls on the spectrum. BTW - I vote "NO", because I disagree with the implementation as outlined by the OP. It would be a disaster if implemented as a 0-5 system.

Talk about a waste of taxpayer money... I wonder how that attitude would fly where I work? "Sorry Mr Smith, I'm not going to arrest this poor unfortunate thief because your bicycle was too crappy to waste taxpayer money on a prosecution." Problem is, your not comparing apples to apples.. It would be more like this: "Sorry Mr Smith, I'm not going to arrest this poor unfortunate thief because your altoids can you left in the bushes was too crappy to waste taxpayer money on a prosecution." Almost makes sense when you substitute an appropriate item