lachupa

Only in a round-about kinda way. The process is actually a lot more convoluted than that. Let's apply this cache to a hypothetical scenario: Step 1 ) Citizen does something. (In this case, chipping several bricks whilst replacing them) Step 2 ) Property owner sees this and calls the cops. Step 3 ) Cop arrives, investigates and determines the cacher's actions were not "willful and/or malicious" Step 4 ) Cop advises property owner that the elements for criminal mischief are not there, so no arrest can be made. Step 5 ) Property owner insists a report needs to be made anyhow. Step 6 ) Cop writes a report describing the situation, submitting it to the State Attorney's Office. Step 7 ) SAO reviews case law, coming to the same conclusion as the cop. No willful and malicious behavior = no criminal mischief. If we change Step 4 and/or Step 7, so this does go to trial, it will be decided by a Judge, during suppression hearings, if the specific actions of the citizen meet the legal definition of criminal mischief. Assuming we change enough facts so the Judge rules in favor of continuing the process, the jury will only determine if the citizen did the actions he is accused of, not if those actions were illegal. The Judge will issue instructions to the jury, advising them that if they decide the citizen did this thing, they must vote in favor of a conviction. The property owner would have a much easier time going after the hider and/or the seekers, in civil court, as the standard there does not require a persons actions to be willful and malicious. Technically the property owner would have a much easier time turning on the irrigation system. yoo kidz get offen my lawn

I'm impressed that you drove in NY. I do the subway, cab, bus, and a lot of walking thing. It's an interesting place but I can only take it for a few days.

Somehow I'm managed to miss out on the whole lamp skirt hide. I really should seek one out just so I can get past it. I hate to admit that if I had not spent any time on the discussion boards I probably would have thought it was quite clever the first time I saw one.

I can't help but wonder if they, (the collective), would like them even more if the owners hadn't intentionally selected the poster child of crappy caches, placing it intentionally in an uninspired location. Can you imagine? Solving a way kewl puzzle, then finding yourself in a really neat spot, opening an ammo can? No? Maybe the average multi owner isn't as cheap and/or lazy as the average puzzle owner? The more I think about it the more I have to wonder why someone would (puzzle or not) intentionally create an uninspiring cache. Where do you live that is so awful that you can't find enough decent locations?

I would have to see one of these to make the call, but my caching time is too short to bother with soaking wet logs in film canisters stuck in wally world parking lots. I might do one of these to see what it was like and if that's the end result I'd put the entire series on ignore. bit harsh perhaps - if the puzzles were good I'd probably solve them and then if I happened to be in the area for some other reason swing by to get the smiley to each his own - one man's awesome is another man's lame The whole forum is opinion. Some people love power trails. I'd rather drive past a dozen McCaches without stopping on my way to a 5 mile hike to get a single smiley.

are there going to be pictures of the different souvenirs on there?

the drama was fun though - admit it but then again I'm not the one who drove an hour out there to hunt around for the thing are we voting on this? I'm in the "this was not here until yesterday" camp

here's one: http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=177754 I found it and took pictures of it with my geocats.

and really the truth of it is I don't mind a micro at the end of a puzzle - not really as long as its a quality micro by quality micro I don't mean a moldy wet log stuck in a film canister The little screw on bison tubes seem ok as long as the log is in a bag. So essentially I suppose what I'm saying is that size doesn't necessarily matter - let it go, this is a family forum. Personally though, I'm leaning more towards a regular size cache at the end of the puzzle I'm doing. I'm new though and only have 2 hides so I haven't hit the point of getting frustrated with cache degredation and muggle issues.

Most of the puzzles I've seen have unknown as the size. I get the idea of not wanting to waste a good spot on a puzzle, not that I agree with it but I can follow the argument. BUT what I don’t follow is the claim that someone solving a puzzle is somehow less deserving of a quality hide than someone who wants to pull over on the side of the road, turn on their hazard lights, and snag a cache just to pad their numbers. So far I don’t think the cache rats have hit my area, but reading a few posts about them I tend to think that if that sort of thing starts happening here I’m going to go with strictly puzzle caches. Hey you want to steal my cache to prove some sort of point, I’m at least going to make you work for it.

Answering questions is going to spoil the fun - cut it out. I know you're not taking suggestions for souvenirs but if you were how about: drama souvenir and the always need tin foil hat souvenir

On the one I'm working up I was going to err on the side of making the actual find fairly easy. It's a chose your own adventure sort of thing so I figured that after force marching someone through a series of clues it would be just too evil to say hook a black bison tube covered with fake leaves on a gutter grate in the street.

I log a DNF if I feel like I made a real effort and didn't find it. I was in a park this past weekend and got a proximity beep at the edge of a playground full of young kids and their parents. I just kept moving because it didn't seem like a good time to go hunting through the surrounding bushes and lamp posts. I didn't post a DNF on that one because I don't feel like I really looked for it. Another one though, I logged a DNF since I put in a little work but didn’t find it: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?ID=809240 I have had a couple of DNF’s that I looked for and didn’t find that I didn’t log. That was because I was on vacation and only giving it a short period of time before having to move on. I guess my rule of thumb is that if I mean to come back and try again I’ll log a DNF.

I like puzzles. I made it through the first 8 of the infamous ePeterso2's puzzle series. I'm stuck on the lateral thinking one because I'm so not hard wired for lateral thinking. Anyway the point is that I've been hunting down puzzles that I can do from my desk with mixed success. I'm a numbers person, hence the math degree and job working with numbers. Not only do I not do lateral thinking well but I also struggle with anagrams. There is a certain satisfaction at finding the solution to a puzzle but an even greater satisfaction at finding the solution to a puzzle that leads to a cache that I can actually physically locate and get a smiley for. To that end I started hunting down some puzzles in my personal caching zone. and finding to my disappointment that for the most part they lead to soggy wet logs in bison tubes or film canisters that have major muggle issues I don't mean to complain - well yes maybe I do a little. I've been working on putting together my own puzzle cache and I mean for it to lead to a regular sized cache with room for trade items, bugs, path tags, whatever and mean to make sure the thing is water proof. I guess what I'm saying here is that I don't get why someone would go to the trouble of putting together a puzzle cache and then tossing a film canister in a bush at the end of it.

I have not run into this personally but I've read about it on other forum posts. I really don't think you're going to get any help from the police though. Around here you can barely get the police to investigate a car theft so reporting the theft of a little plastic box full of random junk isn't going to get you very far. I'm curious about the comment that making a cache premium member only would provide an audit trail. How so? I don't necessarily think the problem is the actual hide since these cache rats are not randomly stumbling across a cache and taking them. They appear to be specifically hunting them down. Maybe the premium member only cache idea will slow it down, but considering that they're going to the trouble to actually create little stickers and all $30 might not be enough of a deterrent. So I guess the bottom line is...nuthin' I gots nuthin' All you can really do is annoy them by constantly replacing the caches they've stolen in the hopes that they'll lose interest and find someone else to annoy.

Maybe you need not buy a space pen, but they're cool.

I think the responsible thing to do here is just miss your connecting flight and spend the extra time you're stranded somewhere geocaching.

One of those rocks slides out - has to be. Somewhere on here is a really entertaining cache that is in a tree above a river. Gosh I wish I could find it, I should have put it on my watch list because there is a lot of back and forth about deleting logs from people who did not actually get up the tree.

That is a funny observation. It could be true to an extent. When I look in my town for caches to go find there are a few in areas of town I'd rather not go to but not that many. I certainly wouldn't hide one where it might lure innocent people from out of town to. As a side note, I'm training for a marathon. I'm up to runs of between 17 & 20 miles. Its not that easy to map out 20 miles without ending up somewhere sketchy. I had one all drawn up and my boss saw it on my desk and vetoed it. The really odd thing is that when we were trying to figure out alternate routes the street he had me run down was about two blocks away from the one he said I should stay off of and where I ended up was a road with some of the nicest, most expensive houses in the city. go figure

If nothing else, reading the logs was entertaining. I don't get the obsession though. Maybe it's that there are so many hides around me that I’m not even close to running out of caches so that I feel the need to drive an hour to one just to hunt around a bunch of broken glass and crack pipes. Let’s not start the whole 100 finds before a hide thing. Come on, some people don’t live where they can do 100 finds and does doing a power trail and logging 100 lamp post hides really qualify someone as an expert? I just now cracked the 50 find barrier. I have two hides out there that both seem pretty well received. As for the OP, yea I think you kids are getting punked. Is there by chance some kind of webcam nearby? Just wondering if the CO is watching and laughing at this little spectacle he’s created.

Well I think it's a cool idea. Can we get a drama souvenir for people who get their knickers in a twist over every little thing?

No events, but it was an absolutely perfect Sunday morning here. We headed over to a park that we routinely run through but other than that haven't spent any time at before. We got in two puzzle caches and two regular caches and made it home in time to watch the Panthers succeed in disappointing yet again. sigh

Is this a new thing? I never heard of souvenirs before I dutifully logged my 10-10-10 find and it popped up. Probably something I'm supposed to have seen but in my defense, I was told there would be no quiz on this material.

on the other side of logging I did a really incredible puzzle cache recently and just didn't quite know what to say when the end result was a bison tube with a moldy log that I just didn't want to touch

Considering how slow the site was today I'd be shocked if everyone who found a cache today actually get it logged today.