Difficult Run

I believe you're looking for the NGS Benchmark Viewer. Not a NOAA website, but an ingenious one maintained by one of our members. ~ Mitch ~

Sounds like you're feeling a sore in the gums. The overwhelming opinion here is that your container would be a violation. Even though your idea was creative, it just isn't going to fly on GC. I'd suggest closing this thread and save yourself additional angst. ~ Mitch ~

CZ-5, What you've described is known as the Tragedy of the Commons. ~ Mitch ~

Ok... but there's a problem with the basic idea. Geocaching Guidelines Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not exhaustive): * Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate. ~ Mitch ~ EDIT: I see that others have made the same point as me. (just a little slow on hitting 'send')

No, not really - you can still get to it on the NGS website by doing a PID search. I believe. No the problem is not getting the datasheet - you can always get destroyed mark datasheets - the problem is, the NGS deleted all the entries after 1932, which contained a wealth of interesting history. In fact the first entry after the destroyed one (also from 1932) explained why it wasn't really destroyed. And they didn't do it long ago, they did it sometime after 2006, when I recovered the mark shown in the picture. The NGS datasheet was still full in 2006. Compare the copy of the datasheet saved on GC.com with what's left on the NGS site. I've been confused about this "disappearing data" for some time now and PapaBear's example is a real eye-opener! What's the reasoning behind this? - Can anybody from the NGS please explain? ~ Mitch ~

Did it look like this one? - HV8111 If so, its' a traverse or triangulation station which would have been set on higher ground such as a mountain. (Although this particular surveyor likes to set his very near to the side of the road). Doubt it was set in the bank of the river, more than likely vandalism. Here's another station set by the same "AFK". It's not in the NGS database. This one's is in Bentonville, Va. Topozone Map Post a photo of the one you found... Let's see how many AFK's we can dig up! ~ Mitch ~ EDIT: AFK appears to be Alfred F. Kupiszewski. He set at least 25+ marks in North Carolina, according to this North Carolina Survey Report.

I wonder if the description is off. - It looks more like a Monel-Metal Rivet. Nicely done, ~ Mitch ~

Interesting monument! Sorry to say that it is not in the NGS database, (as far as I can tell). Here's the skinny behind this little historical jewel: St. Louis Park Monument ... and if you're interested in looking around for other marks, try this site: Benchmark Viewer This would make an excellent candidate for Waymarking. ~ Mitch ~

Here's an neat article y'all might find interesting: Vermont towns finally settle colonial map boundaries ~ Mitch ~

I really enjoyed the story, as we've all been in the same situation before. When I read about the nails, I thought, "no biggie". They're probably the remnants from the old wooden tower falling in on the station as it decayed. But wait... they were on top of old flagging material??????? Hmmm.... Yep, I believe they were intentionally placed. Similar situation here. - There's a triangulation station on NPS property that I've been looking for several years now... Since metal detectors aren't permitted, I've resorted to using a small magnet tied to a string so I can establish the pattern of the decayed tower. Nails are left as found, but no luck so far... ... and when I do find it, I'll be sure to leave a few nails and a small cairn! ~ Mitch ~

You can also use NGS Benchmark Viewer by MonkeyKat/ScaredyCat. It's the best interactive benchmark website I've seen so far. ~ Mitch ~

Thanks for the offer. It would have been a fun time getting together with the both of you. ... and yes, I've had some very good success with finding a number of marks in the heavily wooded sections along both shores of the Potomac. I have to thank Artman, Seventhings and BDT for leaving the really difficult or obscure monuments unfound in the immediate area. It has forced me to carefully examine and research any info I can gather before I even attempt a recovery. - Thanks guys! Back on topic: I'm certain that MARYLAND HEIGHTS S and PIVOT are lead filled drill holes as was customary at the time. So the use of a metal detector, (with the cooperation and blessings of the NPS), could produce a recovery of both marks. I know some of you might find the idea of the NPS allowing metal detectors in finding a mark unlikely or even impossible given their blanket ban on the use of same, but I have obtained permission to do so and the rangers even offered to bring the detectors! (As of yet, I haven't taken them up on the kind offer.) By the way, did you use the coordinates given by the NGS or projected coords using the callouts from the boxscore? ~ Mitch ~

Given that this is National Park property as well as a Civil War site, I have serious concerns about 'scraping rocks' and 'overturning stones' to find a geodetic mark. I'd hate to see the NPS perceive benchmark hunters as disturbing cultural or natural resources. That being said, here's an 1863 map of Harper's Ferry showing the location of the Stone Fort and nearby gun emplacements: Taken from "The Official Military Atlas of the Civil War". Plate 42-1. Apologies for the low resolution scan. I'd be happy to email a better resolution image to anyone that asks. ~ Mitch ~

This maybe true, but do you live on planet earth? You're missing the point... Since I don't live in your jurisdiction, my opinion doesn't matter to TPTB there. Oh, and I don't appreciate the snide remark - Thanks!

Seeing that 98.6% of the folks in this forum aren't residents of your jurisdiction, its' pointless for us to sign a petition that doesn't involve us. I suggest you post your petition elsewhere. Will a moderator please weigh in on this?

WILLAMET was established in 1881, but the disk you see is from 1938. When it come to OLD, PapaBear is KING.... (it's good to be the King, right?)

Looks like 919.605, which would be the elevation that was computed at the time.

Awesome! - A USGS disk set in 1899 with two chiseled squares and a rivet on the same stone? WoW. - Seeing that the USGS was established in 1879, this is truly an early find. Looking closer, it appears that "Pennsylvania" is not stamped, but cast into the disk makes this an even more unusual find. I've seen this style of mark, but only cast in aluminum, not brass. Add this one to the disk logo list! Makes you wonder what the story is behind this... ~ Mitch ~

This is one of thousands and thousands of benchmarks set by the U.S.G.S. which was not bluebooked by the NGS. Read here: http://www.geocaching.com/mark/#whynotin However, I can tell you a few things about the mark. 1) It was set in 1949, (duh). 2) The elevation is 2362 feet above sea level, (duh again). 3) This is a Transit Traverse Station #91, and the surveyor's initials are KW. ~ Mitch ~

Popular Science had a short article in 1956 visioning the use of satellites for navigation: http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/01/09/proto-gps/ I'll bet the idea of GPS was floating around at least 20 years before that! ~ Mitch ~

*suspicious squint* I think not! It's missing a certain... something... What COULD it be? Lipstick. Ok... there I said it.

Sweet! But one question remains, how will he log his recovery reports with the NGS? Answer... doesn't matter when you've found the perfect job!

I have to agree with 2OF. Here's a closeup of the map showing an elevation of 3148 feet, which differs from the given elevation by 1.6 feet. Historical image from http://www.TopoQuest.com Coords are N36° 51.799 W111° 34.621 (DDMM.MMM) Topozone has a better image than the one I posted, you just have to zoom in. There's some interesting reading about Lee's Ferry on this website. It's interesting to note that there were two ferries there, an upper and lower crossing, both occur where the river narrows. This was because ferries used the increased current flow to propel them across the river using an angled rudder much like a sailboat uses the wind. ~ Mitch ~ (Edited to replace lost image)

Is it possible you found BM 11 instead of BM 12? Just a wild guess, but I suspect BM 11 and BM 12 were secondary marks to M 7 and set at the same time. Take a look at the 1921 USGS Annual Report: Nice scenery by the way. Looks a lot warmer than the 26 inches of snow that slammed us over the weekend. ~ Mitch ~

Indeed... Here's two more to add.HW0098 Found by Artman and BDT. HW0612 Found by Cooke17513 and Garman I've seen some more logged around Skyline Drive, which I'll add later. And some very nice detective work there Holograph! ~ Mitch ~