infiniteMPG

We were many miles into a preserve on a hot day and spent about 45 minutes looking for a full sized ammo can that had been DNF'ed a bunch of times and hadn't been found in almost a year (well, we actually quit looking a dozen times but walking away went "WAIT! I need to look in ONE more place!" and stubornly went back not wanting to give up). We finally found it but the issue was that debris from trees and stuff had buried it badly. Wasn't that it was a hard find, just it was a victim of the cycle of Florida weather and flora. If not for the debris it would of been a 30 second find. Not everything big is easy to find, look how long it took Europeans to find America....

ACK!.... a survey?.... bleck. That's like saying the majority of people like blue cars so we should limit the number of red ones. Every cache should be judged on it's own merits not on some cold calculated standard as there is an art to hiding. Some are better at it then others but kudos to everyone who hides caches as they're adding to the fun for the GC community! Debating micros against regulars from the aspect of if kids enjoy it with no swag to trade is no different then trying to regulate how far a swag filled regular should be allowed to be out in a preserve because someone determined how far a child can hike before it's not fun anymore. GC is made up of as many different types of caches as there are people searching for them and thankfully everyone has the right to just look for what they want. I dread the day we only have one or two movies to choose from at the theatre because those are the types that the "majority" of people like to see.... let's leave socialism for the socialists We need a finder ranked rating system that also includes a kid friendly rating that would help tremendously with what people want to find, would help identify "lame" or "great" caches and solves most of these type issues and debates.... ::sigh:: Did I say that outloud? .... again? hehehe

"Hello, 911, what is the nature of your emergency?" "Hi, I was hiking thru the woods and there were a group of people walking around this one spot holding what looked like cell phones and peeking and poking around these couple of trees. All of sudden one of them said they found "it" and they all ran over and started taking notes or something. I watched from behind the trees and after they left I walked over to see what they were looking at." "Yes, and what did you find?" "I looked up in the crotch of a tree branch and there was a 35mm FILM CANISTER sitting there!!!" "Oh my gawd!!!! Did any of them see you looking at it?" "I don't think so but it must be some sort of terrorist thingy. Please send the bomb squad straight over!!!" "They're already on their way along with the SWAT team. Please remain calm and walk at least 100-feet from the film canister and don't make any sudden movements!" Yeah, I don't think any bomb scares or public safety issues have happened due to a micro.... and yeah, it's more of a challenge to find a 35mmfilm canister then a massive ammo can and some people like the walk and not the hunt... so use filters... PUH-lease

I'm familiar with that art : A Time To Reflect GC18BBH A full sized Lock-n-Lock in a massively urban hi-rise downtown location with a bazillion cars passing by every ten minutes yet found without much muggle problem (but in plain sight of thousands). I like the challenges in hiding as much as finding and like that people have fun with it .....but caches DO need a rating system. shhhhhhh

Sounds familiar and for several of our biggest series you do have to climb trees. I have even gone as far as making a full information page about the area (Gilley Creek Track) for geoacachers (needs an update) that shows the trail maps, the current conditions, photo albums, information links, hiking and biking information and notes about what people will face, and even a page that gives people a suggested order of attack on the caches so they can get as many as possible during their excursion (and not all these are mine). The place is pretty open but pretty unique so we coined the term the "Nowhere" series as in being in the middle of nowhere. We found the place in a recreation guide and I hide the first cache out there, Nowhere In Sight, a 5 part multi with camoed stages and an ammo can final that takes 11 miles to complete. The rest grew from that. http://www.infinitempg.com/gilley.htm We try to help people out with more then just hiding caches.... Agreed and the caches are only as good as the owners make them. Personally I have found geocaching to be a great outlet for my creativity that lost it's target when my kids grew up.

Very profound and well said! My kids are 20 and 26, and I was too late getting into the game to get them interested. But when I show them some of my camo jobs they refer to them as "cruel" or "sick" which I appreciate as they still enjoy the evil creativity. I got a co-worker addicted and he takes his young daughter along. We have been out with them and it's a riot to see his daughter see a hole in a tree and yell "THIS would be a GREAT place for a geocache!". She prefers full sized caches because she's still in the "treasure hunt" mode and I can understand that. Seems like a magnetic key holder has shown that your kids are moving up a notch on appreciating the game more. I have found a large number of cachers who don't judge caches at all but absolutely LOVE the fact that geocaching on a whole is like belonging to a secret society that operates behind the scenes and under everyone else's noses. We've had discussions that if it became too popular it would no longer be much fun. We even pulled the geocaching tag off the front of the Jeepster because we like stealth, even with that, and the bison tube with the GC logo hanging from the mirror with the nano container stuck to the ring should be enough to tell another geocacher what we're up to

That speaks for itself that a lame location or technique makes for a lame cache... don't think the size of the container has much to do with that. I would agree that grabbing a bag of free 35mm canisters from Walgreens, tearing up a sheet of paper and stuffing it somewhere is easy compared to spending the money on an ammo can or painting up a Lock-n-Lock and and buying the swag to load it with then hauling it out to find a spot. And lame caches are probably mostly due to people not willing to put much effort or creativity into their hides so would also choose the easy (cheaper) route for the container. But I don't think anyone can state that any cache is lame just due to the fact that it's a micro. Every cache needs to be judged on it's own merits. Uh oh, I almost fell back into the "Hides need a cacher rating system" discussion.... oops. But they do....

Other then not having a residing spot for TB's and geocoins, it's starting to sound like people that profoundly like ammo can's over micros are saying so because they're just plain old easier to find. I know some people like to walk to ground zero and hear that clunk of an ammo can at thier first hiking stick poke under the one lone tree within 50-feet, but some of us would rather get to ground zero and then try to out think the owner. Or place caches that will make people try to out think us. Like a log yesterday of a group going after the nicely camo'ed micro final of a multi-cache at a local lake park which has subliminal hints on which way to go around the lake. They didn't figure that out and found themselves staring across a swamp water break in the trail. They actually braved the wade across the swamp rather then the 2 mile walk back around the other way to make the find. A total riot to read about and they loved the adventure and never once stated "You could of put a full sized cache out here". The fun and the adventure were the find, not the size of the container.

Cute.... but just like that post, the only smile that really matters is the one on your face when you find something you enjoyed. There's no formula, no set in stone thing that makes any cache better or worse then any other by some published standard.... leave that to the socialists. When people start looking at hides as pieces of artwork they might get a better perspective. Some are unique masterpieces, some are just entertaining, while some are just hard to understand. But not everyone likes the same thing which is why some people like the masterpieces, but a whole lot of people are satisfied with what they bought on sale at Wallyworld. No matter what you think about it, to someone it's art. People can be critics and try to pass judgement if that's what they enjoy doing. I'd rather just appreicate the creativity and walk past what doesn't move me... 'cause it might move the next person along

Who's interpretation of "lame"? Some people absolutely love urban magnetic keyholders they can quickly snap up and they get a lot of satisfaction at ones they can get without hardly turning the car off. To other's that's lame. If I recall correctly "lame" in terms of geocaching can be summed up as something that is "unsatisfying" and in that sense, there will be as many interprtations of "lame" as there are cachers.

Swag trade is not real high on everyone's list. Normally it's to make it a treasure hunt for the kids but I know a lot of adults enjoy it, too. But geocaching to some of us is mainly the challenge of the find, not just the FTF, but conquering the challenge the owner laid out for us. Or discovering the neat unique location they brought us to. Everyone takes away something different from this and that's what's so great about it, there is something for everyone. But all cachers are unique so don't expect everyone to have the same priorities. The brand new DVD might not be of interest to the people who found the cache it but be glad they didn't just grab it for the sake of grabbing something as they left it for someone who does want to trade. And I don't think people who don't trade would look at a trade themed cache and think "We don't like trading so delete that one from the GPSr". We people who just like the finds, the locations and the challenges are the easiest to please as we don't complain about the contents, we don't complain about the size container and unless it's super lame we usually don't complain about a cache at all.

Not my thumb.... We have dozens upon dozens of caches hidden in a nearly 6,000 acre preserve that is brutal hiking in the summer and the deepest parts are more then 10 miles in. The caches are hidden to bring people to different unique places in the preserve and some just to challenge them. If every one of them was an ammo can it would be pretty lame... take a keychain from this one, put it in that one, take the Hotwheels car from this one and put it in that one... blah-blah-blah. The last thing people generally want to do when hiking in there is carry one ounce of gear that doesn't support their survival (food, lots of fluids, sunscreen, first aid gear, etc) so swag trade just wouldn't happen. And some of the caches are tricky tree climbs, cool camo jobs, and a wide variety of techniques. Every place "could" support a full sized ammo can but it would be boring. There is a full mix of micro, small and regular caches and a wide selection of camo jobs and even an ammo can I put out there big enough to hide a small person in. Also several multi-caches and mystery caches. I also have an urban hide I recently did that is a centrally located downtown full sized Lock-n-Lock in a place people can't believe I got that big a container hidden at. Variety is nice... rule of my thumb, place the size container that suits the hide location, the challenge you want to present to people and the technique you use and forget what someone else thinks. If they don't want to find the kind you hide then let 'em filter it out

My handle was coined as we have a passion for kayaking, mountain and road biking, hiking, and just about any method of transport that (as our website states) "burns passion rather then gas". And I must admit as gas has now topped $4/gallon the thought of infinite miles per gallon is one that brings a smile to most everyone's face

"Boring" is a pretty personal judgement, too, as there are as many opinions on caches as there are cachers. I have several hundred (I like to think unique) hides out there and can also attest to the fact that I've had quite a few declined. If I felt more review was needed I diplomatically approached the reviewer but all the time take the "oh well" apporach if it gets turned down. This is a game and not one to get an ulcer over. I have been declined a couple times for having one too close to the final of a multi. On one, stage 1 was 8 miles away, I had to figure it out and find it to know where I could place mine. If I couldn't do it then "oh well". The reviewer here is a wonderful person and I don't envy their pretty much thankless volunteer job, I always keep that in mind when I'm submitting something. There are exceptions made occasionally but civilly requested, justified and approved. But if they're declined... once again, "oh well". After all, this is a game and if it became "not fun" for any reason I'd find something else to do, but I don't see that happening as long as we all keep good perspective

A bad hide is a bad hide regardless of the size of the container. A large ammo can tossed under the bushes behind a dumpster behind Wal-Mart is just as bad as a micro hidden at a place with nothing to see and not challenge to find. There is no black-and-white "micros = bad, ammo cans = good" summation. Lame caches are lame caches but you have to look at the overall hide. A magnetic hide-a-key on a guard rail on a canyon overlook or where a break in the trees reveals a winding river are great. I would rather get to a spot in the woods and face the challenge of figuring out where and how a cacher hid and camoflauged a micro then I would walking up to the same spot and in 2 seconds go "There's the ammo can" because there's only 2 places it could possibly be. At the same spot there might be 2,000 places a micro could be, it's a bigger challenge and too much of one for some people. It all depends on if you enjoy the challenge of making the final find or just enjoy the challenge of getting there and don't want finding the actual container to be a challenge once you've arrived. Kind of the difference between people that like checkers and those that like chess. Then there's those of us who like both Life is best when balanced. Some hides are great just for where there are. Some are great for how they're hidden. Some are great for a little of both. We enjoy some of all of them but it's up to each individual to decide what they want from geocaching.... but that's the great thing, no matter what you like you can find caches like that. But if you have limited likes then filter things out so that's all you hunt. But don't expect everyone (or anyone) else to have your tastes. Do what you like, like what you do.

I like geocaching because of the inspirational things it does for my (and seemingly everyone's) life. For weeks it's been raining every afternoon and I sit at home and stare at the clouds knowing a paddle only cache of mine about 2 miles away needs replacing. Yesterday I once again stared at the weather radar, calculated the direction of the storms, and at the last second decided to go for it! Loaded the yak, hit the water and made it to the cache between the lightning and rain. Got the cache replaced, the storms passed and I got to place a couple new paddle only caches in beautiful areas, got to visit a bird island and take some neat pictures, helped out some folks with engine problems with a small boat, had a fun conversation with a co-worker who happened to be pedalling past the launch area (and he's now interested in geocaching and kayaking) and got some good exercise, too. Now if I was just looking to paddle I'd of stayed home and done chores. I can make up on the chores but geocaching got my butt off the couch and on the water and gave me one heck of a fun way to end a rather stressful workday! Yeah... inspirational!

My tag line : "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." The few caches I have found I actually "didn't like" were things like in playground parks with tons of kids running around with their parents in front of tons of houses where people sit on their front porches and stare you down and you feel like some predator on the hunt. Normally I like a muggle challenge but not like that. And other then those few there are just caches I liked "less" then others... but I sure wouldn't discard one for the size of the container or what it looked like on Google Earth. We have urban caches hidden in what look like alleyways and when you arrive you find it's a hidden little butterfly garden spot with sculptures and benches and a cool spot to relax. Looking at GE you'd swear it was marching you into an episode of Cops.

.... Huh??? Oh, sorry, daydreaming again about the day we get a system in place to allow cachers to rate caches and others to view those ratings (on the GC site and not something area specific). Not being in the numbers game, we plan trips to places we like and if there are caches around where we're heading then we go after them. Also why we often don't spend a lot of time seeking something in a boring spot too long. Rule out micros????? No way! We look at the swag routine as a kid thing so we don't haul along a bag of keychains and crayons when we do an all day hike. That space is more valuable for water or power bars. And often trying to find something small enough to hold in your hand is more of a challenge then something you could see from 100 yards away if not covered. Guess it's kind of like target shooting... anyone could hit the bale of hay the target's mounted on, but some of us like the challenge of trying to hit the bullseye. Yeah, a few of us often don't care to just walk up to ground zero, look around and see 3 places an ammo can could be and within a few seconds go "There it is!". It's a fun challenge walking up and seeing the 3,500 places a micro could be and that's when the game begins

We have caches hidden in hollowed out bones, eye sockets in skulls, and various things like that but haven't done the full fledged animal routine as even sun dried and bleached bones get hauled off by critters. We do make regular visits to the decorating shops as they often get molded plastic or painted plaster animals that are pretty life like handle the weather and other critters don't seem to bother them. Like at sites where someone comes up on a tree and has to circle close around it. An angry looking squirrel figure hanging off the trunk just overhead gets a good jump outta people. Seen turtles, frogs, rabbits, snakes, all kinds of critters you can use. I think it anything had any animal biological scent or material left on it, it would be quickly snagged by some other woodland critters or at the least, fire ants.

1,003 times to be exact but who's counting You don't need a GPS to play but it does give you something to blame your DNF's on You are limited to what you can do without one and I would highly recommend against doing rural hiking caches without one as the backtracking feature to find your way out is important. We have been mountain biking, set the bikes down to do the last hundred feet or so on foot, wandered around, found the cache and if not for the backtracking feature we'd of never found our bikes again. Other then caches hidden near obious landmarks will be hard to access. Also, you limit yourself to regular caches as multi-caches without a GPS would be a pain.... find stage 1 and get the coords for stage 2, run back home and plot out the coords for stage 2 on GE and head out, find stage 2 and get the coords for stage 3, run back home... well, you get the picture. Welcome to our addicition!

Found Everyone's A Little Goofy TB in Key West and didn't realize until we were back to the hotel that his head was missing... so I doctored some pictures of him getting an addaheadtome -add-a-head-to-me (with Mickey as the doc and that's really the headless TB, photo shopped, we didn't have an small operating table and a Mickey doll) : And then we were looking for doners so added this potential donor image : We thought it was pretty cute. We ended up replacing the headless Goofy with a new one and moved him along. We still have the headless Goofy we've been tempted to make into a new TB

Hmmmm, a lot of Carolina chatter on this topic. Being raised in Burlington (and lots of family still there) the Piedmont is my old home tromping ground. If you run across a cacher named flaw.v1 there tell him his Uncle said if he doesn't get the FTF I'll have to head back home and have a talk with him.... over a cold Newcastle, that is Notifier sounds good as I tend to do a lot of solo runs deep into preserves. Accidentally ran my mountain bike thru a big family of wild hogs a few weeks back on a solo run about 8 miles deep and thought that "what if" thought then...

There's a bitter sweet memory.... visiting back when my kids were young and my son was around 5 years old. We were cruising around with my folks and some other relatives and went to Upper Whitewater Falls late in the day. Tring to grab shots I ran with camera in hand to the first overlook leaving my kids with my folks. Some other family came behind and my daughter had ran up with them, and then my parents came. I asked where my son was and they said he went ahead to catch us. He wasn't there. MISSING and almost dark. I ran from the upper overlook to parking about 10 times with my heart about to explode from my chest. After 30 minutes someone yelled they found him. He didn't see the turn to the overlook but was too far ahead of my parents and he continued to the top. He couldn't find anyone and sat down behind a big rock crying. I was within 10 feet of him yelling but the falls were so loud he couldn't hear me. I think I hugged him for about 4 days... scared me to pieces and let me know how easy it is to get lost, especially kids. Keep 'em close!!!

This was beaten up many times before. If someone logs a find on a cache it's basically impossible to determine if the cache went missing BEFORE or AFTER they logged their find as there is no log to validate the potentially bogus entry with. If the cache is missing it's impossible to tell when it went missing. So really it's a physical impossibility to determine if the log was bogus if the cache is actually missing unless the log was entered after the owner validated that it was missing.... and if that was the case then it's back on the owner for not logging that fact online. If someone enters a bogus log on an existing cache it can be validated that it's a bogus log but on a missing cache it's impossible to determine if the log was bogus (entered after the cache went missing) since there is no way to validate exactly when the cache went missing and the evidence went missing with it. So what's the difference if you looked for a cache that went missing after the last person logged a find or before the last person logged a bogus find? You'd still be searching for a missing cache and that's the problem and it happens all the time. And unless you have a webcam or evidence when it went missing then it's debating something that pretty much impossible to prove...

Reading that log and checking out the pictures was a spiritual experience for me..... and purdy entertaining. But here in Florida the only ice we see in the lake is where we spilled our Captain and Coke....