Legochugglers

I do the puzzles so I know where they are hidden.

I think you will find that a very large percentage of the Geocaching community will be absolutely horrified by the circumstances you allege have taken place here. I am not sure anyone will consider it funny as an explicit 'rule' for placing a cache is that any landowner permission is obtained where necessary and care is taken when searching for a cache. Please don't tar us all with the same brush. Obviously we don't have the cache owners side of the story but at this stage the evidence does seem somewhat damning.

Congratulations and commiserations. It was that 349 caches in a long weekend in the East Midlands that was deserving of anyone moving just one place up the rankings (LOL).

Well that was one way to get to the front of the mailing list!!

Hiders placing the cache where there is obviously a history of rubbish, there is clearly rubbish when they placed it and there is no doubt always going to be further rubbish in the future. Even more frustrating when there is a perfectly acceptable hiding place about 50m away.

I have, although it was a little tongue in cheek. When doing a local series I tried to get my retriever to have a good smell of the first cache and then once at the next GZ encouraged him (as we do when he hunts for his ball/toy). Unfortunately he was not the slightest bit interested and was much more interested in the other multitude of smells out in the countryside. A lot more work to do i'm afraid.

I don't want to be a killjoy but just be careful who you arrange to meet up with. The Geocaching community has always seemed a safe environment but there can always be exceptions. If you do make arrangements ensure you go with some of your own friends at least initially. I am sure you will then have a great time.

Another one that I recall to add to the list: Myles Stone http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC26B7T

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=81682e0c-07ed-47ff-8793-b91aafb40d49

Cov Milestone GC2Z4V1 ...Puzzle cache where you have to match 1 of 3 local milestones to the listing photo.

You should be able to see that nothing I said was rude. I suggested using common sense. I may be blunt. But I am seldom 'rude'. My suggestion was both helpful and constructive. If you do not like a cache situation, then don't go for it! Use common sense! Use discretion! Or, maybe try reading the guidelines! Calling someone 'rude' is a guideline violation. I thought your manner was rude as well. The new cacher had no way of knowing what he would encounter at GZ as it was a brand new cache. Once GZ was examined he did use his common sense, walked away and recorded his experience on the listing. As a newbie he then came to the forums to ask some advice. So, the cacher asked for advice. The furry fish gave advice. The advice matched the actions of the cacher. And the furry fish is rude? Maybe I'm particularly dense this evening, but I'm just not seeing rudeness here. If I walked up to a ground zero, and found an unpleasant scene, then opted to walk away, and later asked for advice from seasoned cachers, I would be unlikely to call rude the seasoned cacher who suggested, in such a scenario, that I walk away. You are missing the points that the OP found rude. They are bolded in his post to help you. 'The OP expects all caches to be 1/1' '...is incapable of using discretion' 'Hey, use common sense' All unnecessary comments that appear factually incorrect in the context of the OPs original post. Rude, in my opinion.

You should be able to see that nothing I said was rude. I suggested using common sense. I may be blunt. But I am seldom 'rude'. My suggestion was both helpful and constructive. If you do not like a cache situation, then don't go for it! Use common sense! Use discretion! Or, maybe try reading the guidelines! Calling someone 'rude' is a guideline violation. I thought your manner was rude as well. The new cacher had no way of knowing what he would encounter at GZ as it was a brand new cache. Once GZ was examined he did use his common sense, walked away and recorded his experience on the listing. As a newbie he then came to the forums to ask some advice.

You may be a geocacher if you are typing reports and letters on your pc at work and regularly have to delete TFTC that you have inadvertently typed at the end of paragraphs.TFTC

There have been some very good and useful replies so far so I won't pile on with the same information. Here is something to think about.... This community has a pervading don't ask, don't tell culture. Part of that stems from the clandestine nature of the activity. When caches like this get hidden, there is an increased element of risk to the cacher who goes there unaware that the cache was intentionally hidden out of bounds per geocaching.com guidelines and possibly illegally as well. The hider then becomes more liable for what happens there as does the finder. One should really check their bank account to see how big a check they can write before embarking on such an endeavor. In December of 2011 this community heard about the death of a 21yo cacher in Dresden, Germany. The situation was a perfect storm. The cache was hidden in an obviously verboten area. The hider could not possibly have obtained permission for this hide, but they posted it anyway. The hide passed review. There were 30+ finds posted with several near misses with a drop of 20+ feet that was within a few feet of the cache. The drop was because of a flaw/damage to the structure. To my knowledge no reports were made by the finders to get the cache taken offline. The cacher who died attempted the cache alone and at night. He told no one where he was going. He fell through the hole in the catwalk and suffered massive head trauma. He managed to crawl a few yards before succumbing to his wounds. A 21yo kid with his whole life ahead of him died for no reason at all. Every link in the chain failed. This should not have happened and would not have happened if the don't ask, don't tell culture that we have here was not accepted and allowed to continue. Had the death happened here in the USA, I believe there would have been a huge lawsuit with Groundspeak and the hider as codefendants. That nifty disclaimer on our cache pages that protects Groundspeak would have been put to the test. I'm no lawyer, but I think this one would have been un-winable and a discreet and costly settlement would have been brokered. Bullet dodged...This time... I hope they learned from it... I did. You did the right thing raising this question. We will never know when speaking up could save a life. I bet there are at least 40+ people in Dresden, Germany who wish they had spoken up about the cache where that young man died.... I also followed the above story with intrigue and horror. There were also some further related threads that ran concurrently. One worrying detail ran through all the responses and that was an underlying culture to find as many ways to breach boundaries, hide caches illegally and challenge other like minded searchers with the stakes getting more and more out of control. This was not helped by an element of the geocaching community in Germany actively hounding any cachers that challenged the legality of certain hides. Be vigilant and don't be afraid to report what you know to be illegal.

TIRED?

I did a bit of research and located the cache in question. The COs are relatively new and the cache is one of three (their first hides) in an urban park. I do not think that they have specifically chosen to place the cache in an unsuitable area and it may be that it is an inaccurate coordinate problem rather than poor placement. Two other cachers have also posted DNF logs after giving the area a good search and commenting that the terrain rating doesn't seem correct. They also specifically comment about the hint which mentions a "bus stop" which clearly doesn't fit with the gz (unless the hint is very cryptic). IIt is disappointing that the CO has not responded to this initial problem with the cache although they could be away for a few days. I suggest a Needs Maintenance log is posted straight away and maybe a note to the reviewer simultaneously. If there is still no response after a few days then post a Needs Archive. Thank you for your response and advice (apologies if I have not used the quote feature correctly) I will do as suggested. The hint is correct. It is in inverted commas which I took to mean a bit of thinking outside the box was required. Having said that it was Mr Madasa that spotted it....grrr Hold your horses! I put the cache on my watch list and noticed that someone has now found the cache and they thought it was really good (even gave it a favourite). The 'bus stop' reference is apparently very clever so there is obviously more to the cache than you originally thought. The finder's do comment on seeing some rubbish but don't feel it interferes with the search so they obviously were not put off searching. I guess this is a typical example of how two perceptions of a cache/GZ can be so different although I wonder if the FTFers were swayed by their success.

I did a bit of research and located the cache in question. The COs are relatively new and the cache is one of three (their first hides) in an urban park. I do not think that they have specifically chosen to place the cache in an unsuitable area and it may be that it is an inaccurate coordinate problem rather than poor placement. Two other cachers have also posted DNF logs after giving the area a good search and commenting that the terrain rating doesn't seem correct. They also specifically comment about the hint which mentions a "bus stop" which clearly doesn't fit with the gz (unless the hint is very cryptic). IIt is disappointing that the CO has not responded to this initial problem with the cache although they could be away for a few days. I suggest a Needs Maintenance log is posted straight away and maybe a note to the reviewer simultaneously. If there is still no response after a few days then post a Needs Archive.

I would include a polite summary of my experience within my found it/did not find it log. If it is really dangerous I may send further information by email to the cache owner or post a Needs Maintenance log if the rubbish/dangerous material is actually hampering the physical retrieval of the cache. At this stage you have probably done enough to highlight the problem however, unfortunately, some owners may be unresponsive or no longer involved in geocaching so the problem may persist. If you feel the problem is serious enough to cause a real danger to other cachers and nothing has been done by the cache owner then the final resort is a Needs archive log which will alert the reviewer to the problem.

Hence why I ask the OP 'why?' Until they explain their motivation for asking such a question then I see no reason to answer. Let's face it, geocaching has been slowly turning into a competitive sport and all the oldtimers don't like it so they complain on the forums. With the creation of power trails and huge geoart it's become about the numbers as much as it can be without making it officially recognized by GS. It's time they do that and put the oldtimers out of their misery, time to turn geocaching into a legitimate sport. A 'legitimate sport'? Interesting concept. Please explain how you would take this forward? Obviously this would have to be well thought out and planned, official rules made and how they'd be enforced. I'm just planting seeds, if GC decides to go ahead with the idea that will be their burden. ...in other words, you have absolutely nothing! You seem very adept at asking questions but abysmal at answering any. If you are planting seeds at least have some water.

Hence why I ask the OP 'why?' Until they explain their motivation for asking such a question then I see no reason to answer. Let's face it, geocaching has been slowly turning into a competitive sport and all the oldtimers don't like it so they complain on the forums. With the creation of power trails and huge geoart it's become about the numbers as much as it can be without making it officially recognized by GS. It's time they do that and put the oldtimers out of their misery, time to turn geocaching into a legitimate sport. A 'legitimate sport'? Interesting concept. Please explain how you would take this forward?

Hence why I ask the OP 'why?' Until they explain their motivation for asking such a question then I see no reason to answer.

Why?

Why do you ask?

As your cache listing suggests cachers hunt for the cache in the hours of darkness you will need to explain this in your flyer so they are aware of this nocturnal, torchlight activity. Your forum tag line does seem quite ironic under your posts.

Sorry, you mis-understand. Why are you bringing people to an overlooked residential area expecting them to hunt around in front of the houses where you openly acknowledge that the residents are already concerned and police may be on alert. I understood Terrain rating related to wheelchair accessibility not the difficulty rating. I repeat my question. Why are you bringing cachers to this GZ?