d+n.s

True for us as well. Owning a cache makes you a far more considerate finder too.

+1 I could go get 100 in one afternoon and still know less about what makes a good cache than the next guy. The game doesn't need more rules IMO. I find it EXTREMELY easy to avoid caches that aren't up my alley.

If ou really don't hav any nice locations near you in a natural sense, I'm always a fan of being brought to a cool shop, museum, neighborhood park or even restaurant I didn't know about or whatever... just be sure to get permission. Also, an LPC or guardrail could maybe be cool if there is some thought put into it. For example, if I lift the skirt and find a lego village or a chache painted with a really interesting design instead of camo, I might be happy I came

Didn't we a have a thread recently where someone said that the knowledge books should maybe have some more specific guidelines for NM and NA logs?

You mean Domain Name Service? Mine is fairly clear. WOAH! THANK YOU! I was sitting there wondering, "why does that sound familiar?"

Just call us DNS (Dee-En-Ess)

I swear that wasn't my dog... Hrm... Well, it might have been wearing glasses... is Knowschad a "puritan" cacher? I can hardly remember who is who around here... still pretty new...

While this may be nice to know, he did not care to divulge it. His privilege. It also doesn't hurt to ask politely, as warturtle did?

FYI for anyone curious: I decided to submit it as a new cache. At the end of the day, we decided that the new hide was different enough that we'd be uncomfortable with someone claiming a find on it because they had found the old one. We also want to give incentive for the people in our area who found the new one to see the improved version.

I only seem to DNF "easy" caches

If I ever get to Washington State, and had the free time, I'd try to do the triad simply because they're three noteworthy locations. However, I won't be traveling 2600 miles or so just to get those three caches. I'm interested to see how this thread pans out and if those if there is a correlation on an opinion on whether or not the Ape Reclaimed cache should be part of the triad and whether or not someone has previously completed the triad. I'm curious too... But also, I'm thinking this is something that will happen organically over the course of a few years. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I suspect the Triad won't be a "thing" anymore even though I think it should still be one. 5 years from now, I can't see people caring. Why? The icon man, I really think the icon helped give it some longevity and elevated it in the minds of many. Sad IMO, because the people who find the new one will have a far superiour experience to the one that I had when I found it and got the icon with the tunnel closed. Hopefully I'm wrong.

I spoke with the dog, and he said he bit because you found the cache, but didn't sign the log.

I think you are taking that in the worst possible way or being purposefully reductive. You shouldn't assume the worst of people. Like I said, fairly important gay rights activists advocate moving to cities with gay communities. The thread is about trying to find a gay community of sorts. There is nothing mean or "eyeroll" worthy of advising a gay person to move to an area with like minded people. If I lived in a city with only 3 women, you'd expect me to stay and be misrable to prove some emopty point? To try to change an entire city as a minority while simultaneously being lonely? Trying to frame people who say, "if you feel that uncomfortable in your environment, move." as being dismissive is unfair. Its actually sound advice. People move for love, jobs and culture all the time. Its the exact same impulse that drives people to make threads like this. finding like minded people is a good thing. People shouldn't necessarily be encouraged to stay in a threatening environment. I can understand the motivation to do so, but it hardly makes someone callous or whatever if they say, "Hey man, just get out of there!"

You know, on the surface some are going to find that advice a little coarse and unrealistic. However one of my favorite relationship/sex columnists Dan Savage (the "it gets better" guy)is a homosexual and he says the exact same thing. If you live in an area where gay people are treated poorly or rare you need to move. He says that you owe yourself happiness and shouldn't settle for what is immediately available. You shouldn't make yourself a paraiah to make some grand point and needlessly suffer in the name of social change. It's interesting to see that same advice pop-up here. The first time I heard it, it seemed a little off to me, but being striaght I take things for granted. I grew up in a really small really intolerant city in Missouri. Seeing the difference between that and a place like Austin is pretty eye opening. I guess I'm a little off topic by this point, but I just wanted to say that Alabama Rambler makes a good point. I think people of like backgrounds and interests should naturally feel comfortable seeking each other out sometimes, but if it's that hard to find a place where you feel safe around others... selling everything you own and living in a studio apartment in a better place might be a better long term solution. YMMV Running away doesnt solve anything. Since it affects 10% of the population universally, that really just makes the hate stronger in some areas when a few people leave, and the others have to hide what they are doing. Instead of the wall coming down, it only gets larger. When we grew up and went to school there were certain people who would hurt others that were different any way they could. By pouring their derision upon anything they did and exposing every weakness however carefully hidden by the kids. But in the town it was well known when they got home at night, their fat and psychopathic wives would thrash them within inches of their lives.. This might all be true, but a person needn't make it their job to suffer in vain. One kid in a little nowhere town realistically won't make a difference and they deserve to find someone that they love and meet like minded people as much as people lucky enough to be born somewhere else. I knew one openly gay kid in the little town I grew up in, and honeslty looking back, his life seems like it was pretty lonely and hostile. I'm sure he moved to Kansas City or at least somewhere with a gay bar, but if he asked me whether he should have move or not... I would feel pretty uncomfortable telling him he should have stayed and fought the good fight. I mean, I left because I hated it. Most kids do that or get into meth. I wouldn't tell someone to stay somewhere they aren't happy to prove a point. I'd encourage them to save up and move. Again, I disagreed with the sentiment on a gut level the first time I heard it, but it makes sense to me now. However, it's really so far outside of my realm of experience my opinion on the matter is pretty empty and meaningless. That said, it only tangentally relates to the OP, so I feel pretty comfortable dropping it and sagreeing to disagree. Especially considering I agree with everything else you've said

You know, on the surface some are going to find that advice a little coarse and unrealistic. However one of my favorite relationship/sex columnists Dan Savage (the "it gets better" guy)is a homosexual and he says the exact same thing. If you live in an area where gay people are treated poorly or rare you need to move. He says that you owe yourself happiness and shouldn't settle for what is immediately available. You shouldn't make yourself a paraiah to make some grand point and needlessly suffer in the name of social change. It's interesting to see that same advice pop-up here. The first time I heard it, it seemed a little off to me, but being striaght I take things for granted. I grew up in a really small really intolerant city in Missouri. Seeing the difference between that and a place like Austin is pretty eye opening. I guess I'm a little off topic by this point, but I just wanted to say that Alabama Rambler makes a good point. I think people of like backgrounds and interests should naturally feel comfortable seeking each other out sometimes, but if it's that hard to find a place where you feel safe around others... selling everything you own and living in a studio apartment in a better place might be a better long term solution. YMMV

Don't blame you. I would probably feel the same.

Wait.. did they find it, see it and touch it? I honestly have no idea. Personally, I wouldn't say I had found a cache if I had touched it, but it was camo's well enough that I didn't relaize it was the cache... but thats just me. I don't really care what other people do to other people's caches. just saying.

I think you mean "gangsta" pardon me, I stand corrected. if anyone can explain why wearing your pants too low is a trend in that group, that would be appreciated. How are you supposed to run from the "po-9" if your pants are around your knees? Actually that lovely little fashion trend originated in prison. It's hard to be "family friendly" while explaining it, but I will try. The men who walked around the prison grounds with their pants below their waist were "easier to get", it was a signal to others that they "could be got" in order to win some protection from the "getter" for the "getee". I hope that makes sense because I can't say what it means any more simply without having it deleted. Anyways, it's assumed that somebody's uncle or brother or cousin came fresh out of prison still flashing that signal & their younger nephews/sons/cousins/whatever thought they were really cool, so they emulated them. Soon enough it popped up in a rap video & there ya go.. Spread like wildfire. http://www.snopes.com/risque/homosex/sagging.asp

I think I might have made friendly a joke in my log... I've seen the same thing happen, but it doesn't bother me. Everybody plays the game the way they want to. If they get a thrill logging an unfound cache, then I let them enjoy it. It really doesn't effect me. yeah normally it doesn't bother me much either, but I'm not kidding they were literally blocking the sidewalk and being obnoxious and rude with their language (and dress, one had no shirt on and his pants around his knees like a "gangster")while searching for the cache. Then to not sign the log on top of it was just a bit much for me. I feel that by caching in such a disrespectful way to the residents of the neighbourhood, they were putting caching in a bad light, which does affect me. Was the other wearing a leather jacket like one of those good for nothing greasers? rude, rude rude

I had a scorpion waiting for me ina cache with no lid I found once... every since that day, I'm always thinking about about to get stung or bit. Anxiety might be a strong word, but if I had one it would be that... probably a good thing really.

Someone has to keep an eye on him, so I'll bow out, too. (What is the FUITH group? Do I really want to know?) Best I could find is the acronym for F'd up in the head. The only group I could connect to this from my point of view are the The Westboro Baptist Church. Needless to say, I really hope thats not what they are getting at, because thats the meanest group you could tie someone to imo. Hopefully my conjecture is wrong. Internet mind reading usually is...

Whoops. Missed that whole thing somehow. Must have forgotten to refresh my browser. Apologies. I'm a complete idiot.

Said much more clearly and succinctly than I could manage for some reason. Pretending sexuality isn't a component of our being is like pretending food and sleep aren't. It's life at a basic level. It's nearly puritanical to pretend who we love and are attracted to shouldn't bear at all on who we are and what sort of people we get along with.

I think it has a lot to do with intolerance, mis/disinformation and good, ol' fashioned history. Whoa there, NeverSummer. OregonCacher didn't say anything about a specific sexual orientation; he said that ANY sexual orientation is irrelevant to geocaching. Perhaps not in that post, but if you look at the others, it becomes pretty clear what the issue is. And I agree that it is irrelevant. Which is why I said what I said below the snipped quote. I just hope that the same limit on tolerance would be issued to anyone who decides to talk explicitly about who they love. Otherwise, it's just another person who has a different story, and shouldn't be disregarded as a needless interest group. (See religious groups, other clubs or affiliations, etc who form "groups" to go geocaching) Thank you "GeoGeeBee" I was about to say the same thing myself: "Whoa there, NeverSummer. OregonCacher didn't say anything about a specific sexual orientation; he said that ANY sexual orientation is irrelevant to geocaching." - GeoGeeBee Let me be very clear on what I meant; when I'm geocaching, I don't want to know what goes on in the bedroom of the cacher's I'm with; gay, straight, or anything in between. Several people made comments asserting the following: "There is no difference between a occupational or religious group, and a group based upon sexual orientation". To the above statement, I completely disagree, however many people feel differently about different things in this world, so I think the only thing I can say is agree to disagree. An occupation is what you do, not who you are. What if I made a blonde-hair only group, or an African American group? I could drag this analogy on forever, but my point with it is, is that in my opinion, there is a very significant difference between banding together for a common purpose based upon a group-commonality of "what people do, or what (not who) they like" and what their sexual-preference is. If I went geocaching with someone who turned out to be Gay, I would not have any issue with it, as long as it wasn't a part of our discussion as we were geocaching; just as I would not speak about my sexual preference/experiences with fellow-cachers unless they were close, personal friends, and I also knew it would be perceived well and appropriately by anyone and every person. It sounds really good to say that that your sexuality is not who you are, but I don't think a therapist would back that up. Being a straight married man is a huge aspect of my personality. To try to separate the concept of my sexuality from my concept of self is almost impossible. I can't imagine who I would be if I wasn't the sort of person who wanted to be with my wife. Sexuality is a HUGE part of being alive. It's part of nature. It's part of our personality on a DEEP level. Far deeper than a job or a hair color. Meanwhile, my job (most people's jobs?) are just something that they do to pay the bills right? I mean, someone has to PAY ME to do that stuff. Otherwise I'd just be out geocaching... and I LOVE my job I find it interesting people keep bringing up "what goes on in the bedroom" Whenever people talk about homosexuality they seem to go straight to sex and bedroom talk. Perhaps it's easier to characterize it only as sex and not as love? If I said, " I don't want to know the cacher's I'm with are in love with or know about their significant others" we'd probably all agree it is a completely weird ting to say. So instead we say what? "don't wanna know who you're humping"? Seems like a weird thing to ask of someone. No one offered to let us know what happens in their bedroom. It has nothing to do with gay caching.

Here are the containers for reference. The old one was under a pile of rocks just off trail. The new one will be in a hole in a small brick wall with just the bondo part showing among some other lumps of concrete... New Old