hans415

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container. yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container

Nobody said you could ask for the guidelines to be changed. They just said don't break the guidelines. Wait until the change. Why is that so hard for you to understand. Totem what is it you don't understand that rules never change unless someone brings it up or does something to get them changed I hear you saying that things don't change unless you talk about it, and I understand that. I even agree with you on that. I have been in agreement with you on that the whole time. You don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying. Yes, it is good to talk about things like this. If the guidelines change I might hide one even. Who knows. What I'm trying to say, and you keep ignoring or avoiding it, is that UNTIL the guidelines change stakes are not proper caches. It's that simple. Please don't tell that I'm not willing to talk about this change or that I don't understand about rules changes. When you do you it just prove that you are not listening and that this is not a disscusion, but rather one person holding their breath and throwing a fit because they don't like the way things are now. I am avoiding it because it is a mote question and answer. How do we get the Guidelines changed? we talk about it? we discuss the merits of it. We get noticed by the rule Changers. We all know what you are saying that YES They are illegal now but it does not mean we have to keep mum until someone magically out of the blue, changes the rules. Changing rules is usually an uphill battle and we have to start somewhere and what better place to start then on Groundspeaks Forums.

so utility plates have now been changed to? I doubt it

Not allowed, and will get archived if the reviewer is notified. no it doesn't. I know of some that are over 8 years old and also placed by Reviewers... try something else I don't have a date for you on the guideline change, but they are no longer allowed. And of course someone who didn't know could have placed one last week, and "got away" with it. The reviewers don't know, or ask, what the container is. show me where The RULE was changed then

I have seen them for sale on Groundspeak and every other cacheing store. Also Utility plates are not a container

Not allowed, and will get archived if the reviewer is notified. no it doesn't. I know of some that are over 8 years old and also placed by Reviewers... try something else

Ok all I have been waiting for someone to think of this, but looks as if no one will so I will approach it. Magnetic Strips Placed on Poles or Boxes we have all found them they have the log either Pasted on Back or I have see them manufactured with a wipe off log. Some say Warning High Voltage, some say something else. These are not "Containers" yet they are accepted as a nice evil Cache and no one complains. There is no difference in Magnetic non-containers and a wooden Stake.

Nobody said you could ask for the guidelines to be changed. They just said don't break the guidelines. Wait until the change. Why is that so hard for you to understand. Totem what is it you don't understand that rules never change unless someone brings it up or does something to get them changed

At least one Person gets it. Thank you

BTw not all the run is just dna stakes there is many different actual Cache containers from Bubble gum machines to Telephones, to Very very Large elecrtrical boxes to things I found in the desert like a water ski Skateboard, Tin Cans, Old Bottles, Rocks and some created ones like the Famous Slider and the also Famous Flipper. From shotgun shells to 44 shells, to Extra large Nanos what we call the desert Nano about 4 feet long and 12 inch opening. so it isnt just all dna stakes. we have all spectrum's for the Fizzie from 1x1 to 5x5 and reverse. It is like no other power run you have done.

wow How do you get rules changed? what is so hard for you to understand that. You think if no one talks about it the rules will just be Magically changed? Really I was putting feelers out to see what the community thought. Maybe I need to go to other Caching forums also and test the waters there. I had to change the stakes by putting dna tubes in them because of closed mindedness. But funny thing is everyone that does the run gets it after they see it they say hey we get it. So maybe if you all actually did it you might just get it. BTW this came up as People are signing stakes instead of opening the DNA tube. Now reviewer wants them changed again. They are signing the Stake I say it is good.

why not if the container requires it. see you guys just do not think outside the box. you say rules are rules. I know that rules can and always are changed. As Groundspeak has changed many of them

I am confused. Was that series not, as I was informed, a series of stakes with DNA containers on them with logs in the containers? I had been told that the series in Nevada were not simply wooden stakes, they had containers and that is why they were legit caches. Yet from your posting, it sounds like you just said people are supposed to sign the stake. Yes? you again misread or I did not explain it fully for you all to understand, originally they were stakes only but were changed. I am still stampeding to get Groudspeak to accept stakes as a Viable container. Take for example an earth cache..opps no container needed yet it is a cache. and the more one talks about it The squeaky wheel gets noticed and talked about.

con·tain·er /kən ˈtā nər/ Noun: An object that can be used to hold or transport something. Okay, let's say your stakes don't need to open to be containers. But how do they "hold or transport something"? Wow you finally learned the word container and what the dictionary says it is.

Okay, you've convinced me. Wooden stakes are great logs. Now where's the container? I don't think so. Every blinker or other nano-cache that I've opened has had a log inside. Every wooden stake that I've opened has... uh... um... just how do you open a wooden stake? BTW, you aren't suggesting that people sign the container are you? sigh No need to be snide on these as I am well aware of all that everyone will say. Why does a Container have to open to be a Geocache Container? As long as there is a clear place to sign the Geocache Container why does it have to open? Does it all have to be the same? Isn't that why there is a few hundred thousand different types of Geocache Containers? From homemade to Manufactured to anyones imagination it can be a container, but why does it have to open?

so Tell me again AZcachemeister how fast Plastic Bio-degrades?

AZcachemeister says A chunk of pine wood 500 miles from the nearest pine forest is no less objectionable than a piece of plastic, metal, or rubber. Each came from the earth, and each will return in their own time. Sigh to educate them is a tough thing to do. Yes I know I will take a lot of flack on these post, because Some People just do not like change at all. Drop a ketchup bottle on the floor, and you'll be thankful for polyethylene terephthalate, or PET, the nearly indestructible plastic used to make most containers and bottles. Drop the same bottle into a landfill, however, and you might have second thoughts. Why? Because petroleum-based plastics like PET don't decompose the same way organic material does. Wood, grass and food scraps undergo a process known as biodegradation when they're buried, which is a fancy way of saying they're transformed by bacteria in the soil into other useful compounds. But bacteria turn up their noses at plastic. Load their dinner plates with some plastic bags and bottles, and the one-celled gluttons will skip the meal entirely. Based on this logic, it's safe to argue that plastic will never biodegrade. Of course, that's not the end of the story. Daniel Burd, a student at Waterloo Collegiate Institute, recently demonstrated that certain types of bacteria can break down plastic. His research earned the top prize at the Canada-wide Science Fair, earning him $10,000 cash and a $20,000 scholarship [source: Kawawada]. Until other researchers can replicate Burd's experiment and waste treatment plants can implement any new processes, the only real way to break down plastic is through photodegradation. This kind of decomposition requires sunlight, not bacteria. When UV rays strike plastic, they break the bonds holding the long molecular chain together. Over time, this can turn a big piece of plastic into lots of little pieces. Of course, plastic buried in a landfill rarely sees the light of day. But in the ocean, which is where a lot of discarded grocery bags, soft drink bottles and six-pack rings end up, plastic is bathed in as much light as water. In 2009, researchers from Nihon University in Chiba, Japan, found that plastic in warm ocean water can degrade in as little as a year. This doesn't sound so bad until you realize those small bits of plastic are toxic chemicals such as bisphenol A (BPA) and PS oligomer. These end up in the guts of animals or wash up on shorelines, where humans are most likely to come into direct contact with the toxins. http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/how-long-does-it-take-for-plastics-to-biodegrade.htm WOOD decomposing Products we use daily live anywhere from 3 weeks to a million years. Ok, maybe that is not forever, but close. Make a stand today to use these products less, and find ways to reduce, reuse and recycle! HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO DECOMPOSE
: Banana Peel- 3-4 weeks Orange peels- 6 months Apple Core- 2 months Paper Bag- 1 month Cardboard- 2 months Milk Cartons- 5 years Newspaper- 6 weeks Paper Towel- 2-4 weeks Cotton Glove- 3 months Tinned Steel Can- 50 years Aluminum Can- 200-500 years Disposable Diapers- 550 years Plastic Bags- 20-1000 years Glass- 1-2 million years Cigarette Butts- 10-12 years Leather shoes- 25-40 years Rubber-Boot Sole- 50-80 years Plastic containers- 50-80 years Monofilament Fishing Line- 600 years Foamed Plastic Cups- 50 years Wool Sock- 1-5 years Plywood or Wood- Plastic Bottles- 450 years HMM say that again 1-5 years on wood, Plastic containers 50-80 years hmm

Plastic will have degraded and disappeared within a few years...ten at the most if not somehow protected. I have seen wood stakes over 50 years old lying in the desert with readable numbers still on them. It's not about littering the landscape (since a conscientious Geocacher will remove any remnants of an archived cache...you do remove the remnants of your archived caches, don't you?), but it is rather about what truly constitutes a viable geocache. Why not simply attach a QR code sticker to a sagebrush bush and call it good? Because it's NOT Geocaching. Hopefully your reviewer will soon be taking a closer look at your hides to determine if they really do comply with the guidelines. Plastic will not degrade as quickly as you think. And again Plastic is Chemical that is proven to harm and be harmful. I see another Geo-Police here also by statement No a qr code is not but may be soon if Geocaching takes over Munzee and they may be in the works real soon. To you nothing but a Large container is geocaching?

Finding wood stakes in the desert could certainly be a fun game. Geocaching is finding a container with a log inside to be signed. A chunk of pine wood 500 miles from the nearest pine forest is no less objectionable than a piece of plastic, metal, or rubber. Each came from the earth, and each will return in their own time. Really actually there is a lot of pine trees around here. Stakes ARE a container it contains as much as any nano does wood instead of treated paper. But you are one that maybe would never change mind even if rules were changed to include stakes. I do not know but it sounds like that.

I know that most people do get set in their ways and do not like to think so much out of the box. They are in their comfort zone being inside the box all the time. Wooden Survey Stakes on a power run make sense if you all just really think about it. They are all natural They will give back to Earth with no Chemicals like Plastic does. They are quick and easy to sign. Instead of putting 2000 35 mm canisters on Floor of mother earth why not something all natural? Paper is made mostly from wood with a lot of added Chemicals. so I am using wood that gives back. They find a Stake inside a Sagebrush sign it and go on to next. Yes I know there is a lot of GEO Police out there that will never change their minds and they will always try and get your Run Archived. I have always wondered if I challenged this in court to which would be the better Cache wood stake or a 35mm would would win. I am pretty sure I could get the environmentalist on my side lol . Seriously people think about it Wood stakes versus Plastic which one is Litter? Also rules were made but Rules on Geocaching has changed a lot over the years and can be changed again if I can just get them to see wood Stakes are a Viable Container.

Again Stakes hidden inside Sagebrush not even touching the ground. Stakes should be considered as a Viable Container, The have a place to log; Stake gets full, rain comes, bam, maintenance is done clean stake again. of course we have had no rain or snow at all here in 14 months. All natural wood no Harmful Plastic Chemicals Mother Earth loves wood

define geolitter? I believe we are all guilty of littering when we place plastic containers, or Ammo Cans or anything that is not going to go away in 1000 years. Wooden Stakes that are untreated will go away but also give back to the Earth whereas your Plastic tupperware lock n lock will be there giving earth only Chemicals that will cause harm and not good. So think about it before you talk a lot about geolitter

Wouldn't stakes placed (driven/poked) into the ground be a violation of the GS guidelines------------No digging or using a pointed object to place a cache? Just saying.............. Stakes hidden in Sagebrush and not even touching the ground..that is what most of them are.

Guidelines have changed: Gone are the words about breaking ground, and using a point object. I suspect this allows some wiggle room for the reviewers. The guideline has been made more broad, not more specific, so anything that would have failed the previous wording would still fail the new wording. A stake fails the current wording of the guideline not once, but twice: 1. The stake is partially buried 2. A hole is created in the ground Unless it's a magical stake that can sit on top of the ground, a stake doesn't pass this guideline. Stakes can be and are placed inside Sagebrush in the Nevada desert, therefore no one is digging or burying the stake. So think again stakes are all natural not littering as Plastic containers are Littering. Paper is made from Wood as Stakes are and can be signed by most anything. so there again Stakes should be allowed.

35 mm I have plenty but Wooden stakes are different and all natural and gives back to Earth instead of Littering with Plastic