cleandrysurface

It has been five years, what do you think you are accomplishing with this post? Helping. More like trolling.

O please, do not scan my words with microscope. At least not those, which are out of topics. I do not understand why people get upset. You got wrong impression. If we know that other geocachers are behind us, we always wait them for a group FTF. I believe their comment was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek (humor), as evidenced by the statement before it, "Wait, DO they give out cash prizes?". Look like I went and got myself moderated as my original post seems to be missing. Sarcasm not appreciated around here?

I have done parts of the Captain John Smith Geotrail, probably the best known geocaching trail on the Chesapeake: Captain John Smith Geotrail

I had the occasion to meet the local FTF hound while attempting the FTF on a new cache nearby. He has a very specific routine when he makes a FTF - write his name at the top of the log with a box around it, so that nobody can write their name above his; take a picture of the log; and immediately post a short NOTE on the cache listing to let others know that he found it. Apparently he had some issues with some cachers at one time who were irritated that he was scooping up so many FTFs. I asked him why post a 'Note' instead of a 'Found' log. His response was that if he posted a short 'Found' log and edited it later, his log would be appended with an "Edited..." note at the bottom of his log, which he did not like. As others have stated, the rules only require that a finder signs the physical log book in the cache. Online logging is completely optional and only a courtesy. There is no app in the world that is going to alert you when the log book gets signed.

OK. I'm done here. The only people that appear to be left in the room are the ones that like to argue for its own sake. Until next time.

If someone has ignored the NMs and the DNFs in their inbox and their caches are still unmaintained, what makes you think they're going to pay any attention to an automated spam email? It's not about those people so much as about the game and cache ownership as a whole. A reminder to those who haven't abandoned the cache, the listing or the game that there is a certain level of responsibility expected from the hiders to keep the database clean and the game fun for all. I agree. If your a responsible cache owner this shouldn't bother you at all. I disagree. I am a responsible cache owner and it does bother me because its telling me that I am not a responsible cache owner. Note my entry on 4/22/16. If responsible cache ownership is not recognized by GS then why bother? I would think that they assume responsible cache ownership is reflected in OM logs, not Note logs. For all they know, your note may say something like "It appears the cache is missing. Can someone leave a new container the next time they are out there?" Such things have been done before. To clarify, I referenced the note to illustrate that I do monitor this cache. I do not expect the Geo-bot to validate the condition of my caches based on my note logs. I use notes to communicate to people looking for it that it is still there. If I replace a log or a container, then I post an OM log. I shouldn't have to post an OM log just to prove that the cache is in good condition. The onus should be on the Geo-bot to prove that it isn't.

It's often claimed that the forums are badly skewed against reality, so therefore it makes sense to discount strong and coherent arguments found in the forums if HQ disagrees with the conclusions. Now you're using forum posts from people shouting "do something" to make your case? Well, OK, but as you search for your "do something" shouts, make sure to also check how often the people calmly responded by explaining the more effective approaches that don't involve GS used by those communities without this problem. Yes, HQ listens, but selectively. I don't see at as skewed when there's evidence. In the OP's territory there's 763 red wrenches within 40 miles of ground zero. Within 40 miles of your location in California there are over 1000 red wrenches. Within 40 miles of my location there are 500 red wrenches. And that's just a drop in the bucket. As we know via the forums there is an issue with people not wanting to log NMs and NAs. So there's probably triple that amount of languishing missing and junk caches owned by delinquent or absent cache owners. My area tops out at over 1000. This tells me that the proper way to maintain caches is relatively unknown or ignored and that a little reminder of how and when is needed. Same question - out of how many caches total?

That's my point. The cache in question is not poorly maintained, so they aren't addressing anything. They would be better off just sending out these notifications to COs randomly. Would've have saved them a bunch of money on their fancy algorithm.

It's often claimed that the forums are badly skewed against reality, so therefore it makes sense to discount strong and coherent arguments found in the forums if HQ disagrees with the conclusions. Now you're using forum posts from people shouting "do something" to make your case? Well, OK, but as you search for your "do something" shouts, make sure to also check how often the people calmly responded by explaining the more effective approaches that don't involve GS used by those communities without this problem. Yes, HQ listens, but selectively. I don't see at as skewed when there's evidence. In the OP's territory there's 763 red wrenches within 40 miles of ground zero. Within 40 miles of your location in California there are over 1000 red wrenches. Within 40 miles of my location there are 500 red wrenches. And that's just a drop in the bucket. As we know via the forums there is an issue with people not wanting to log NMs and NAs. So there's probably triple that amount of languishing missing and junk caches owned by delinquent or absent cache owners. a.) So what? Even if everyone maintained their caches to an acceptable standard there would still be NM logs. b.) Out of how many caches without wrenches? c.) Please provide a basis for your conclusion that there is "triple that amount".

If someone has ignored the NMs and the DNFs in their inbox and their caches are still unmaintained, what makes you think they're going to pay any attention to an automated spam email? It's not about those people so much as about the game and cache ownership as a whole. A reminder to those who haven't abandoned the cache, the listing or the game that there is a certain level of responsibility expected from the hiders to keep the database clean and the game fun for all. I agree. If your a responsible cache owner this shouldn't bother you at all. I disagree. I am a responsible cache owner and it does bother me because its telling me that I am not a responsible cache owner. Note my entry on 4/22/16. If responsible cache ownership is not recognized by GS then why bother? I did check the cache. Pics to prove it... A good idea is only a good idea to those that aren't inconvenienced.

And how many of those red wrenches are for MY caches? Put THAT in your algorithm. It's not just about you, it's about the pastime and the database. GS can't treat every cache individually. They don't have the resources to fine-tooth-comb every cache. That's a false argument. I don't expect anyone to vet every notification that pops out of the hamster mill. My point is if GS can write an algorithm to filter out D1.5s with 3 or more consecutive DNFs, then they can certainly write an algorithm that cross references those with CO activity and the condition of the COs other caches. On the other hand, if all of my efforts to keep up on the maintenance of my caches, such as on this one - https://coord.info/GC2CN1P , are for naught, because I am just going to get pinged anyway, then maybe I should rethink my maintenance program because now I can just kick back and wait for GS to tell me when I have to do my maintenance.

And how many of those red wrenches are for MY caches? Put THAT in your algorithm. Has nothing to do with being the owner of some evil caches. This cache is far from evil. Will take advice and revise the hint. It has everything to do with good intentions and poor execution.

Stopped by on the way home and checked on this before continuing this conversation any further. Here is a pic of my 'stealthy' cache that is magnetically attached to the Shi(pwrigh)t pumping station and a pic of the entire pumping station. Unfortunately, the pictures do not effectively convey the smell of this cache. Admittedly, the second cache that I ever found was one of these and I had to try it twice, but it was very well concealed in the space between a junction box and the pole that it was attached to. That one was rated a D2.5. So really, you would give this a D greater than 1.5? In contrast, I have another cache just up the street, GC6AJHD , that is a D3 with 5 DNFs in a row over the course of 2 months by people who should have found it, but no email notification on that one. The last person to find it was a noob with only 9 finds. Go figure. I think a D2.5 would be the best fit... "A mild challenge but relatively easy for an experienced geocacher." from: Ratings for Difficulty and Terrain 1.5 = Easy to find or solve within about 10-15 minutes. The hint for the cache is "magnetic". How many magnetic surfaces do you see on that tiny building? Only two sides are accessible. Its a shiny new residential outlet cover in plain view that doesn't even match the cabinet that it is stuck to. The reality is that newbies don't pay attention to D/T ratings. I recently had a newbie cuss me out in his log on a D4 cache of mine and tell me not to make it so hard. But, the algorithm apparently DOES pay attention to the D rating and kicks into gear after a couple of DNFs. I set the D rating relative to my other caches and other listings in the area. I suppose I could try and make it easier by drawing a big arrow that points to it, but that would be frowned upon.

You and others have said this before but I still am curious how this has been an actual problem for you (and anyone else) much less it being the "biggest" quality issue of the game currently. This issue always seems to carry an emotional punch but until people start reporting that throw-downs involve more than a one or two percent of their total cache finds I won't feel much empathy for them. That would be 100 throw-downs per 5000 finds where the cache replacement presented an ACTUAL problem for the finder. I can't recall even 10 throw-down problems for my 8000 finds. And whenever I ask this question... silence. EDIT: To keep it on topic, though I don't have specific memories of ACTUAL throw-down problems I've had huuunndreeds of maintenance problems. I think the automated maintenance emails are a plus for this game. The problem, though perhaps not the biggest quality issue, with throw downs is that it absolves delinquent cache owners of their responsibility to maintain their caches. I got into a pissing match with a CO last winter after I posted a NA log on his vacation cache. He owns almost 300 caches and his maintenance strategy (he explicitly states this on many of his cache listings) is to rely on the good will of the geocaching community to keep his caches maintained for him, "AS WITH ALL MY CACHES - IF THE LOG IS WET SIMPLY REPLACE IT - Its quicker and easier for you to replace it for me than to log a "maintanence" for a just piece of paper- THANKS!" I don't have a problem with geocachers helping each out - its part of the culture. But to come to rely on that help, much less blatantly asking for that help because it is expected, which then frees up more time to put out more caches, is just wrong. Let me reiterate that the cache that I received the notification for was found less than two weeks ago and was only published 4 months ago. I don't necessarily have an issue with notifications. I just think that it was ridiculous to receive a notification in that particular circumstance. So now, instead of a noob, after seeing two previous DNFs and not finding it themselves, proclaiming in their DNF log "I think its missing", we have an algorithm that does it for them. Brilliant. Next time, don't cheap out so much at the algorithm store.

Stopped by on the way home and checked on this before continuing this conversation any further. Here is a pic of my 'stealthy' cache that is magnetically attached to the Shi(pwrigh)t pumping station and a pic of the entire pumping station. Unfortunately, the pictures do not effectively convey the smell of this cache. Admittedly, the second cache that I ever found was one of these and I had to try it twice, but it was very well concealed in the space between a junction box and the pole that it was attached to. That one was rated a D2.5. So really, you would give this a D greater than 1.5? In contrast, I have another cache just up the street, GC6AJHD , that is a D3 with 5 DNFs in a row over the course of 2 months by people who should have found it, but no email notification on that one. The last person to find it was a noob with only 9 finds. Go figure.

Just received what appears to be an automated notification from Geocaching HQ concerning one of my caches. "Hello cleandrysurface, Your geocache, Spa Creek Series: Shipwright Runs Downhill by cds (GC6BBYH), looks like it might need some attention. The recent logs may contain more details about what sort of maintenance needs to be performed. This could be anything from a new logbook to replacing a missing container. Here are a few options for what to do now: Maintenance: Visit your geocache, make any needed repairs, and post an "Owner Maintenance" log so the community knows it's available to find. Disable: If you cannot check on your geocache within a reasonable amount of time, please disable your geocache listing. Once you perform maintenance, you can enable it and post an "Owner Maintenance" log. Archive: If you decide it is time for your geocache to be permanently retired, please archive the listing and retrieve all physical stages. For tips about how to perform maintenance and to learn why Geocaching HQ sends occasional geocache maintenance reminders, please see this Help Center article. Thanks, Geocaching HQ" I have never received one of these before. Is this something new? This cache was last found less than two weeks ago. Am I going to get one of these emails every time three noobs in a row post DNFs on one of my caches? Could be a problem...

So we should email the CO and let them know their caches are poor quality and we would like them to hide better quality containers and to please stop carpet bombing areas? Yes, sure, and you can complain about the poor quality in logs, assuming you decide to look for them. You can talk to to the COs about it at events where you can even make a specific point that the least they could do is leave room for good caches. (Make sure to also praise and encourage any COs planting good caches, regardless of how many.) And you create threads here complaining about the quality in your area, even naming names for all I care. Anything you like. I mainly just want to make sure you don't push for a new guideline which, in my area at least, would do nothing except reduce the number of quality of caches. If you want something done right, then do it yourself. Go hide more quality caches.

Sorry, did I miss something? Where is this place(s) that is so saturated that it is impossible to hide one more cache?

I see scales for both the socialist and imperialist measurement systems on the Mapbox maps. All of the maps have scales for both. I was referring to the contour labels. Moot at this point, however. MapBox is gone and MapQuest OSM is back. Crisis averted I suppose.

Does Letterboxing really need a review system? You would think all 10 of them could behave themselves.

Found it. Needs maintenance.

Hi GeoLTL - I see you are in suburban DC. I've got a good idea of who you are talking about and to be frank, the number of caches that he is putting out is insane. I don't understand how he plans to keep on top of the maintenance for that many caches and would like to see how many of them are disabled or archived in the next year or two, but I digress. If you only plan on hiding one cache, then it WILL get lost in the crowd. I think you should plan on doing several caches. Put some thought into them. There ARE still cachers out there who appreciate thoughtful caches. Make them multi or mystery caches and it will weed out a lot of the strictly numbers cachers. Keep them close together in one area and they will be easier to maintain. Make at least one replacement cache container at the same time that you set-up each cache to make future maintenance much easier. There are a lot of PTs in your area by a lot of different COs. The nature of the linear park network there lends itself to that. I would just PM the CO with your request. What's the worst that could happen? Isn't it in his best interest to have more caches for him to find? As others have said, if you want to save some spots, then go out there with your GPS and pin them. Start a new cache listing on Geocaching, input your coordinates and save a draft. It does not go to the reviewer until you click 'submit', but it will hold your place while you write the listing and finish your cache container. It will not save the place forever, but it does give you ample time to finalize your cache. Cheers

The default map has changed from OSM(?) to MapBox Outdoors, which appears to be using the socialist metric system. Is there any way to change my default map to Esri WorldTopoMap, which still uses good old 'mercun imperialist units? My head already hurts from working on projects in metric and decimal imperial. I don't want to have to convert a 50 m topo line to a +/- 160 ft topo line in my leisure time.

If I read this correctly they are not logs on your listings, but logs on caches in Texas you encountered while visiting from Canada? Kata_Tjuta is Ted Cruz?

Really. You are playing the seniority card and berating the 'youth' for their irreverence? How well does 'Get off my lawn' translate in your language? I do understand "get off my lawn" very well without any need to translate it. It does not reflect my attitude however. If I consider to archive my caches, it's me to get off the lawn as many before have done before. I would gladly leave gc.com to others and use a different caching site that brings back the kind of caching I loved so much but there is no such site. I have inserted an example about a cache in one of my previous posts - maybe that example helps you to realize that it's not about playing any sort of card for me. OK. Totally does not translate. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=get+off+my+lawn