Bear and Ting

quote:Originally posted by GeoStars: quote:Origianally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:On the other hand, you'll waste your entire day just doing Perfectly Perplexing Puzzles We have two teams working on puzzle two and neither are making much progress. We swap ideas via e-mail and come up with great theories, just can't seem to get them to work with the actual puzzle. We'll keep at it until we get it though! GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars That settles it, we will have to get up to Ft wayne!!! Bear & Ting Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

....of meeting BruceS personally this last weekend. We were leaving SueBabes New Dam Cache and he was seeking it out. According to him, he plans his business trips with caching in mind and seeks out as many as he can in a very organized fashion. This is alot more than I can say for Ting & I. When we hit an area (like Boca Raton, FL) we have ALOT of caches stored or marked, but we are not organized enough to hit that many in a day. I think we hit 7 (5 found, one not, and one plundered) as our max. BTW, Bruce, if you DO take time out to read the forums, WAY TO GO!!!! Bear & Ting Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions! [This message was edited by Bear & Ting on June 26, 2002 at 08:32 PM.]

quote:Originally posted by k2dave: For any of you who fear that by putting a 'tract' item in a cache will cause that person to convert - ask yourself does that make any sense at all? What lowly opinion of your fellow man do you have that he can be swayed so easily? Or more importantly what are you afraid of? You may have a chance of getting a cacher to go to McD's if there is a extra value meal buy one get one free coupon but you are not going to change his faith. If man was not so weak minded, there would be no evangelists. The key to every religion is that there is only ONE way and that is the right way and all other ways are WRONG and if you do not convert to that way, your way will condemn you live your life in pain and misery for all eternity. The goal of any religion is to convert non-believers into believers of that one way. Am I wrong? Quite frankly, I believe that EVERY religion that teachs morality (good vs evil, right vs wrong) is correct. What is the oldest religion? Hindu, Islam, Christianinty, Judism? Was it the Eygyptians, the Greeks, the Azteks? Who is right? Who is wrong? This is a theological and philosophical debate that would and can go on for an eternity. This is not the place for this kind of debate/discussion (though I welcome this kind of dialog). As for religious items in a cache, if you allow angels without complaint, then you must allow Miishu (I think that is what it is called, the Hindu elephant??) also without complaint. This is an international game, folks, Christianity is wide spread, but it shares the world with many other religions and faiths. Can't we all just get along? Bear & Ting P.S. A new site, My American Freedom, is being launched. It is a discussion forum of Freedoms, Civil Liberties, Religions, and such. Feel free to take this discussion of religion there, if you like. There are still a few tweaks that need to occur, so bear with the admins. Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

...the Lost Ark! Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

quote:Originally posted by majicman: Okay, you guys are just ASKING for it! (Sarcastic attempt at humor)... I have a great idea! Very similar to my (see other threads) "Stump Remover" cache with the tnt, dynamite, and nitro-glycerine,) or my "All Food Items" cache (baked items wrapped in wax paper), I think I shall now create an "All-Religions" cache. Now, to be fair (proportionally), I will have to include items proportional to the general public so I have 2 billion christians, 1.3 billion Islamic, 900 million Hindus, 850 million Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist, 360 million Buddhists, 225 million Chinese traditional religious, 150 million primal-indigenous believers, 95 million Diasporic, 23 million Sikhist, 19 million Juchest, 14 million Spiritist, 14 million Jewish, 6 million Bahaist, 4 million Jainist, 4 million Shinto followers, 3 million Cao Daist, 2.4 million Tenrikyoist, 1 million (roughly) Neo-Paganist, 800 thousand Unitarians, 750 thousand Scientologists, 700 thousand Rastafarianists, and about 150 thousand Zoroastrianists! Now, I can subdivide the Christian 2 billion (we don't wanna mix the Catholics and Methods and Baptists all together, do we?) So, we will have to have separate items for these "Christian groups" (lets do alphabetical this time!): African Independent Churches (AICs), the Aglipayan Church, Amish, Anglicans, Armenian Apostolic, Assemblies of God; Baptists, Calvary Chapel, Catholics, Christadelphians, Christian Science, the Community of Christ, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Coptic Christians, Eastern Orthodox churches, Ethiopian Orthodox, Evangelicals, Iglesia ni Cristo, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Local Church, Lutherans, Methodists, Nestorians, the New Apostolic Church, Pentecostals, Plymouth Brethren, Presbyterians, the Salvation Army, Seventh-Day Adventists, Shakers, Stone-Campbell churches (Disciples of Christ; Churches of Christ; the "Christian Church and Churches of Christ"; the International Church of Christ); Uniate churches, United Church of Christ/Congregationalists, the Unity Church, Universal Church of the Kingdom of God, Vineyard churches and others (Disclaimer, Note that these are only SOME of the "major" (by member population) Christian religions.)) Well, I really should break out the Islamic (Like the Shiite and More) and Hindus (gotta watch my karma here, at least in this life-cycle) into their various subcategories, but, I think I'll let that slide! OK: now for some items: rosaries, crucifixes, crosses, medalions, holy cards, scapulars, bibles, leaflets, pamphlets, statuettes, hood ornaments, prayer cloths, cruets, oils, clerical shirts, patens, vestments, chalices, candle sticks, monstrances, pyxes, sprinklers, vestments, plaques, icons, wine, grape juice, wafers, unleavened bread, bitter herbs, catechisms, medals, pins, stained glass, patches, turbans, kippahs, black hats, brown derbys, machzors, siddurs, the T'nakh, yarmulkes, prayer wheels, bells, beads, cymbals, incense; (heck, lets do som alphabeticals) arti lamps, bride dolls, baptismal candles, buddha statues, censers, challaf loaves, chauri, chommetz kits, conches, dancing sticks, diva statures, dorjes, dreidles, durgas, first communion dresses, ganeshas, garlands, gregers, guru gobind singhs, guru nanaks, hanumans, head scarves, hunger cloths, icons, ihrams, Ik Onkars, kacheras, kanghas, karas, kara parshad bowls, kalis, kiddush cups, kirpans, krishnas (hare?), lakshamis, madonnas (not her!), malas, mandirs, masks, matzahs menorahs, mezuzahs, necklaces, offering bowls, plates (medina), prayer - beads & flags & hats & mats & wheels, puja trays, qur'ans, rakhis, rama & sitas, ramadarbars, rumalas, sarasvatis, seder plates, shivas, shabbat candlesticks & puppets, shofars, skull caps, spices & spice boxes, stoups, tallits, tambourines, tasbis, teffilins, trimurtis, triptyches, vishnus, votive memorial items, wafers, weddign garlands & dresses & cakes & veils & jewelery, yads and Zitzit Katans! That outta about cover it! (Whew!!!) --majicman (Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!) And you managed to fit that in ONE large ammo box? You are a better person than I! I like your point. I also would like to make the point that religious views are very much like political views (and every one has one). The reason I am against non-disclosed religious themed caches (not against the freedom of religion) is that it violates my civil rights. I have a right to believe what I believe as do you. However, you do not have the right to push your believes on me, nor is the reverse true. It is the same with politics. Yes, we have the right to free speech and expression, but you do not have the right to lead my into a room under false pretenses. The other reason I have a problem with these kinds of caches comes from the similar reasoning. If "christian" caches are allowed, do we allo Islamic (complete with a home made suicide kit)? (Sorry, I have Islamic friends and even we joke about it, no offense was intended, I was being sarcastic myself.) Do we allow Satanic caches? How about "Adult-only" caches (since I've seen a few kid only caches)? Where do we draw the line here? Bear & Ting P.S. If anyone is interested, or has not figured it out, I am agnostic. I believe in God, but in a different way than most. If you want to know more, just email me. Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

quote:Originally posted by welwell: I think the trip going and finding the cache is more important then what is in it. I could care less what is in it. I have even gone on a cache where I walked over ten miles in a wilderness, taking almost ten hours and just signed the log, took nothing and left a small item. I don't think you get the point about geocaching. Maybe you should return the gps to it's owner. Would you have not gone if you knew is was a religious cache? No.... I would not have gone. There are enough other caches out there. However, if I ever find them again, I would pick up a few copies of "Why man created God", a small booklette. If the cache is marked or described as a religious cache, so be it. If not, then it is fair game and I would place a copy of it in there. Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

quote:Originally posted by Seth!: Perhaps my next cache should give coordinates for the nearest "chill pills". Let's all take a deep breath and say, "We're talking about geocaches." As admins, we're not out to spoil anyone's parade--or their ice cream, or their potty break. We're trying to maintain a fairly level playing field. The Argonds' caches received quite a bit of discussion. In the end, we figured most of the caches sounded super. But we also have to remember that people will get ticked off if they think we let a commercial advertisement slip through. We try to be safe, not sorry. But we are sorry if we've gone and upset the Argonds. Please understand that we are trying to do a reasonable job at our task and we try to consult everyone before we make big decisions. Now, there are about a hundred new caches in the queue and I've got to go work on that list... Peace. Go hunt a cache! - Seth! I agree that the location of bathrooms or WCs would be a good thing as would it be to know there is a gas or petrol station (for those caches DEEP in the wilderness). However, I think Ting would agree that naming a specific pub or eatery might not be a good thing. I mean, if you were a vegetarian and there coordinates lead to a steak house, it would not be good or helpful. However, if there are places of interest (a Diner that Elvis ate at), then perhaps. In my humble opinion, I would not want to be led to the steps of a church (though I would appreciate the architecture). Would it be better to place points of interest around the cache into notes in the log?? Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

TB logging should be easier. We picked up 4 TB's in Florida and moved them to Indiana (passed a few TB's since Indiana would not meet their goals). Anyway, I knew what I had to do to log the TB's, but there must be an easier way. I like the idea of asking a question, and if answered yes, a list of valid travel bugs appear, or the TB number prompt would be good too. Right now, I have one TB launched. The logs where it was launched from show a cacher from Texas picked it up, but it is still showing in the cache. I wrote them a nice note and asked them to log that they had it. Nothing has changed yet. Just my 2 cents worth. Bear & Ting Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

quote:Originally posted by VentureForth: I think that the Currently Unavailable feature is the best thing going for someone who owns a cache to disable it temporarily until it can be fixed up. Archiving should be left to caches with owners far away and no local caretakers, AFTER the remnants have been removed (if plundered) or verified that the cache no longer exists (don't forget; we don't want a bunch of abandoned caches littering the planet). As far as downloading the caches, just don't click the "download all" button. Click each individual cache you want in your GPS and download them. The unavailable ones are clearly separated just like the ones you've hidden and already found. I do that just to skip the virtuals. Or to get only virtuals, or only multis for whatever demented reason I may have. VF --------------- http://www.scubaboard.com/images/smilies/wavey.gif Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet! Ah.... see, now there is something I did not know (and I try to learn something new every day). There is a difference between "Archived" and "Currently Unavailable". I like that. I guess I would have learned that as a cache owner sooner or later, as I am in the process of developing two rather unique caches (I hope). Thanks for fixing that one. I will go over my notes for the day and log a "Note" suggesting archiving a few more in the area. I did not know this alerted the admins. While I agree that one should not use the check all, I do. I use the geoclipping application to suck down the cache texts I want to try to get to and then select ALL on the page. I then uncheck the ones I want to skip. Obviously, I uncheck the "Unavailable" ones. However, as I stated before, these WERE listed as stolen by the cache owner and yet were still listed as available. Bear & Ting Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

quote:Originally posted by VentureForth: I think that the Currently Unavailable feature is the best thing going for someone who owns a cache to disable it temporarily until it can be fixed up. Archiving should be left to caches with owners far away and no local caretakers, AFTER the remnants have been removed (if plundered) or verified that the cache no longer exists (don't forget; we don't want a bunch of abandoned caches littering the planet). As far as downloading the caches, just don't click the "download all" button. Click each individual cache you want in your GPS and download them. The unavailable ones are clearly separated just like the ones you've hidden and already found. I do that just to skip the virtuals. Or to get only virtuals, or only multis for whatever demented reason I may have. VF --------------- http://www.scubaboard.com/images/smilies/wavey.gif Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet! Ah.... see, now there is something I did not know (and I try to learn something new every day). There is a difference between "Archived" and "Currently Unavailable". I like that. I guess I would have learned that as a cache owner sooner or later, as I am in the process of developing two rather unique caches (I hope). Thanks for fixing that one. I will go over my notes for the day and log a "Note" suggesting archiving a few more in the area. I did not know this alerted the admins. While I agree that one should not use the check all, I do. I use the geoclipping application to suck down the cache texts I want to try to get to and then select ALL on the page. I then uncheck the ones I want to skip. Obviously, I uncheck the "Unavailable" ones. However, as I stated before, these WERE listed as stolen by the cache owner and yet were still listed as available. Bear & Ting Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

This has probably been discussed before, but I ran across this again this week-end while traveling and, well, it just irked me. I downloaded a slew (over 120) of caches into my Palm and GPS for the Boca Raton area. We (my wife and I) decided to search in an area and found a cluster of caches that were reportedly stolen. In some cases, this was even in the description header of the cache. (Refer to King's Ransom). There were many in the same area like this...plundered, stolen, MIA. My question is, if the cache owner KNOWS it is gone and has taken the time to say so himself, why do they not ARCHIVE the cache. This way we know not to take the time to download it to our GPS (one less coordinate to stumble over sometimes) and into our PDA (more room for valid caches). My hat goes off to ENDZONE. We think we discovered his cache (Prince Treasure) plundered. We emailed him that evening and within an hour, his cache was "unavailable". Now, I am not looking for THAT kind of turn around from everyone, but "King's Ransom" was reported stolen in the logs back in JAN. Please, cache-owners, if your cache is inactive, archive it. It would make for a more fun game. Bear & Ting Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions! [This message was edited by Bear & Ting on June 17, 2002 at 03:44 PM.]

quote:Originally posted by Rockdoctors: I agree with Jef here folks. Its should be left up to the cache hunter. If you are up to the challenge of finding a buried cache then go for it. We have to be certain that the cache owner clearly reports the exact location to a cache - maybe photos. Yes, you might have to bring a compass with you to find the buried ones. Maybe a tape measure, and patients SOme caches should be extremely hard - but clearly ranked. We are not restricted to our GPS's. What we enjoying here is navigation and surveying really. If your up to the challenge I way go for it. Maybe we should have a seperate area on the geocaching.com website for these types of caches so that they are more organized and easier to moderate yes????? I am not disagreeing with either of you. I am saying that this cache was not well described and in doing so, placed a small part of the enviroment in danger. Surveying is fine. Mapping and measuring is fine, but state that those are your objectives IN the cache description. Recommend taking a shovel, a compass, a tape-measure, and/or anything else. Be responsible. Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

quote:Originally posted by Jeremy Irish: As for my own opinion of burying, if I bury it and use my GPS unit to mark it, then you use your GPS unit to find it, you would theoretically have a radius of 40 feet that you would have to dig up in order to find it. And if I marked it wrong you may have an even larger area. Not to mention the image of folks showing up to a park with shovels to scare the locals into a frenzy. Don't do it. Why do it? And why defend burying? Jeremy Jeremy Irish Groundspeak Lackey and Geopuppet We ran into a buried cache this weekend. According to the cache owner, it was still there, but many people were having trouble finding it. We tried for an hour, but we not going to dig down 5 feet (like one cacher reported did). When we got to the location, it was secluded, but we also noticed alot of wildlife in the area (lizards and crabs). Under the canopy of trees, our GPS was giving us a 30 foot margin of error. Now, it we WERE right on top of it, we could have dug 60 ft in any direction and not known it (which some people obvliously did). This cache owner needs to be more responsible. That much digging is NOT good for the local environment or habitat of the local wildlife. If you are going to bury a cache. Give clues on just HOW deep it is. Mark the spot better, or say it is "10 feet from X". It has to be something more precise than the GPS coordinates. After all, I am not using YOUR GPS, I am using mine and mine just MIGHT have different tolerances and averaging under a canopy. Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

And it ain't small either.... you seem to have pretty good control over the windows environment (as good as could be expected). Any way to clip from the view/list?? I mean, just have it go down the list in an automated fashion? Just a thought. Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

quote:Originally posted by worldtraveler: Because 1. They easily withstand the harsh environment of cache containers (heat, cold, dampness) and don't attract critters. 2. They are easily packable and will fit in any cache. I usually leave coins from six or seven different countries in a cache, but I can even put at least one or two coins in a microcache. 3. They are rare (i.e. not easily obtainable) and interesting to most folks. 4. A thief probably wouldn't consider them valuable, but they are "treasure" to kids and collectors. 5. It's a useful way to get rid of accumulated pocket change. 6. They are an appropriate match for my username. I know I answered this question before in the old forums, but I could find my previous post. Maybe lost in the migration? Worldtraveler I go one farther (back in time that is). If you ever find an ancient (uncleaned?) roman coin in a cache, that would from me. Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

.... and I did not move the cache. I finished what I was doing, scoping out the area. When I replaced the cache, I moved off a short distance and watched (I like people watching anyway). This alien did indeed approach the cache. I inncoently returned mumbling that "I forgot to mention this in the log book" or something like that. Anyway, the alien was suprised to see me return. He asked what all this stuff was and I explained it to him. He had not heard of the game, but his girlfriend (who was sick and tired of getting lost when he drove) had given him a GPS. He thought it sounded like fun and is now a convert. Now, not every alien will convert. But I think that most would understand and not plunder the cache when it is explained to them. Give aliens a chance, they are people too. Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

.... and I did not move the cache. I finished what I was doing, scoping out the area. When I replaced the cache, I moved off a short distance and watched (I like people watching anyway). This alien did indeed approach the cache. I inncoently returned mumbling that "I forgot to mention this in the log book" or something like that. Anyway, the alien was suprised to see me return. He asked what all this stuff was and I explained it to him. He had not heard of the game, but his girlfriend (who was sick and tired of getting lost when he drove) had given him a GPS. He thought it sounded like fun and is now a convert. Now, not every alien will convert. But I think that most would understand and not plunder the cache when it is explained to them. Give aliens a chance, they are people too. Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

WOW! If I read correctly, I'll be able to store 5 different searchs?? WOW! And the output will be XML? Even better! This will give us the opportunity to place the data we want and need in our PDAs as well as in our GPSs. It is just what many of us have been asking for. May I make a suggestion for after you get htis launched? In regards to routes, there is a way already to see a map of the area with caches overlaid on it. Would it be possible to use that function to select the cache's along a route and group them in a result set (similar to the search result set) and have them mailed or saved? Just an idea. Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

I understand and agree with a cache being non-commercial, non-religious, non-political and I applaud that. However, what about TB guidelines? Do they apply here as well? I guess I ask because I launched "The Great Candiate" TB last month (though it has not yet moved). It is a parody of a candidate along the campaign trail, it is really not political, but could be taken as such, I guess. Any comments? Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

And Ting too Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

Just a note to say that the Great Candidate is on the campaign trail and wants to visit all fifty states to drum up votes and jot down campaign promises. It was last since in the Maui Fleming cache. Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

quote:Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy: quote:Originally posted by Bear & Ting:Fort Wayne is always welome and I did not mean to exclude them...perhaps a _Northern Indiana Geocacher's Association Roundtable_ would be good. Seriously though, it was just a quickie acronymn... we are open to anything. Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions! I don't think that would make for a very good acronym for some reason... http://216.202.195.127/warm.gif Errr....uh.... HOLY COW! I honestly did not mean that and I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone. It was not my intention at all. I just changed the "Central" to "Northern" and did not look at the result at all. I'm so embarrased! Bear Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

quote:Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy: quote:Originally posted by Bear & Ting:Fort Wayne is always welome and I did not mean to exclude them...perhaps a _Northern Indiana Geocacher's Association Roundtable_ would be good. Seriously though, it was just a quickie acronymn... we are open to anything. Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions! I don't think that would make for a very good acronym for some reason... http://216.202.195.127/warm.gif Errr....uh.... HOLY COW! I honestly did not mean that and I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone. It was not my intention at all. I just changed the "Central" to "Northern" and did not look at the result at all. I'm so embarrased! Bear Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

quote:Originally posted by Episkipos Enos Shenk, KSC: why just central indiana? fort wayne always seems to get ignored... [Episkipos Enos Shenk, KSC] [403forbidden.urbanexploration.org] Fort Wayne is always welome and I did not mean to exclude them...perhaps a Northern Indiana Geocacher's Association Roundtable would be good. Seriously though, it was just a quickie acronymn... we are open to anything. Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

quote:Originally posted by Episkipos Enos Shenk, KSC: why just central indiana? fort wayne always seems to get ignored... [Episkipos Enos Shenk, KSC] [403forbidden.urbanexploration.org] Fort Wayne is always welome and I did not mean to exclude them...perhaps a Northern Indiana Geocacher's Association Roundtable would be good. Seriously though, it was just a quickie acronymn... we are open to anything. Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!