Neuman

An email received today: quote: I am writing today regarding your use of the Groundspeak Geocaching 4-square logo on your TX Geocoins. First off, please understand that we truly appreciate your demonstration of loyalty to our logo and the inclusion of www.geocaching.com on your coin. However, as stated in our logo licensing guidelines, "The Groundspeak Geocaching Logos may be used only on non-commercial items." Accordingly, your sale of TX Geocoins containing our logo [or derivation thereof], for profit, directly violates our policy and infringes upon our trademark. As you may or may not have read in our guidelines, Grounded, Inc. a/k/a Groundspeak started using the Groundspeak Geocaching logos over one year ago. To Geocachers and others alike, the Groundspeak Geocaching logos have come to symbolize Geocaching. It has become our signature "trade dress." After all, the only reason that people think of this logo in association with Geocaching is because we used the logo on our Geocaching.com Web Site and associated promotional merchandise. We recognize that things do get more complicated, though, when an image like the logo is so widely known that it comes to symbolize not just our products and services but also the entire game/sport of Geocaching. This is a good thing, and we want it to continue. But trademark law is sticky on this point. If a trademark isn't "protected" (by letters asking people not to use it, or by licenses that allow them to use it only in specific ways), it gets into the public domain and loses its protected status. If this happened, anyone could use the logo without restriction, including in ways that were detrimental to Geocaching. Despite your presumably genuine claim of attempting to seek permission (we have read the forums) prior to producing and selling these coins, permission to sell these coins commercially has not been granted. Consequently, in order to protect our trademark rights in the Groundspeak Geocaching 4 Square logo, and upon advice of counsel, we must respectfully request that you immediately cease and desist marketing, selling, distributing or otherwise displaying the above referenced Geocaching logo on any products whatsoever, including specifically, TX Geocoins. Sincerely, Bryan Roth Groundspeak - The Language of Location Direct 206.302.7721 x103 Fax 206.374.8161 www.Geocaching.com You are the search engine and my reply: I appreciate your email regarding the use of the geocaching logo. Please indulge me on the following points: 1)As I have stated on many occasions, I made several attempts to obtain permission from Jeremy to use the geocaching logo on the TX Geocoin. As I knew, at that time, permission had been granted to at least 2 companies/individuals (Canadian Geocoin & Moun10bike), the lifetime use of both being WELL over 25 units, I therefore assumed that there would be no problem with the logo being used on the TX geocoin as well. 2)Also, as I have stated on many occasions, I make no profit whatsoever on the TX geocoin. As a matter of fact I am currently LOSING money on this venture, but, unlike some, I am not doing this for the money but rather for the love of geocaching. 3) Lastly, a "commercial item" would be one that promotes a company or product, or that makes money for said company (see #2 above). The only thing that the TX Geocoin promotes is geocaching, www.geocaching.com and, in doing so, Grounded, Inc. (and, of course, the Great State of TEXAS!) In this respect, I do not see how the TX Geocoin has "wounded" your company in any way. Having said all of this and in the hopes of avoiding any drawn out legal battles, I would like to, again, request permission to continue using your logo on the TX geocoin. If anyone profits from this, it is you. I will be happy to open my books for your perusal if you believe otherwise. Thank you for your time in this matter. Neuman

The last thing I want to do is tick off anyone at Geocaching.com, Groundspeak, Grounded, Inc., (whatever name they are going by) but I tried, repeatedly, prior to producing the TX Geocoin, to contact them regarding usage of the logo and never received ANY response, positive or negative. If they want to be hard-nosed about it, I'll change the design of the TX Geocoin but the way I look at it, anything that promotes geocaching is good for them and I promise to send ANY after tax profits to Jeremy! (Luckily I have that offshore partnership with Enron!) Whew, it feels good to get that off my chest

The last thing I want to do is tick off anyone at Geocaching.com, Groundspeak, Grounded, Inc., (whatever name they are going by) but I tried, repeatedly, prior to producing the TX Geocoin, to contact them regarding usage of the logo and never received ANY response, positive or negative. If they want to be hard-nosed about it, I'll change the design of the TX Geocoin but the way I look at it, anything that promotes geocaching is good for them and I promise to send ANY after tax profits to Jeremy! (Luckily I have that offshore partnership with Enron!) Whew, it feels good to get that off my chest

quote: my thanks to Neuman on this thread for the most excellent suggestion I was afraid this might happen!

quote: my thanks to Neuman on this thread for the most excellent suggestion I was afraid this might happen!

quote: "your people" You must be from the south?? Never ask a man where he's from. If he's from Texas, he'll tell you. If not, there's no need to embarass him!

quote: "your people" You must be from the south?? Never ask a man where he's from. If he's from Texas, he'll tell you. If not, there's no need to embarass him!

Hopefully this doesn't start a ketchup vs. catsup debate!

Hopefully this doesn't start a ketchup vs. catsup debate!

I originaly wanted to mint the TX Geocoin so as not be outdone by those d**n Candanians! But, after Mr G. was kind enough to share their experiences, my animosity slowly faded and I looked at the TX Geocoin more as a contribution to caching! (And, of course, TEXAS had to have one before any of the lesser 49 states!) quote: I mean, if I find a Canadian geocoin in a Texas cache, I'm gonna put it up on the wall! There'd better not be any Canadian brass down here in TEXAS!! quote: Unless they have permission from Groundspeak, they shouldn't be making back any money on them at all I'll be lucky to make enough of a profit to cover my annual Charter Membership dues!! Besides, with www.geocaching.com stamped onto every coin, I should be charging them for advertising!! (Just kidding, Jeremy, please don't wipe out all my finds!) Frozen pizza?? All I can afford is ketchup on bread!

I originaly wanted to mint the TX Geocoin so as not be outdone by those d**n Candanians! But, after Mr G. was kind enough to share their experiences, my animosity slowly faded and I looked at the TX Geocoin more as a contribution to caching! (And, of course, TEXAS had to have one before any of the lesser 49 states!) quote: I mean, if I find a Canadian geocoin in a Texas cache, I'm gonna put it up on the wall! There'd better not be any Canadian brass down here in TEXAS!! quote: Unless they have permission from Groundspeak, they shouldn't be making back any money on them at all I'll be lucky to make enough of a profit to cover my annual Charter Membership dues!! Besides, with www.geocaching.com stamped onto every coin, I should be charging them for advertising!! (Just kidding, Jeremy, please don't wipe out all my finds!) Frozen pizza?? All I can afford is ketchup on bread!

I placed 5 TX Geocoins in the Austin area last week. One has already been found and is on the move. There are 4 still up for grabs so you'd better hurry!!

And I'm bringing a handfull of TX Geocoins to place in various caches around the city. "Spread the wealth" I always say!! Keep an eye out - there may be one soon in a cache near you!!

And I'm bringing a handfull of TX Geocoins to place in various caches around the city. "Spread the wealth" I always say!! Keep an eye out - there may be one soon in a cache near you!!

ACTUALLY, that was my old site. We hired a three month old to design the new TX Geocoins site!!

ACTUALLY, that was my old site. We hired a three month old to design the new TX Geocoins site!!

After the original was ransacked (no squares taken!) I moved the Geoquilt II Comes to Houston Cache to a safer location.

After the original was ransacked (no squares taken!) I moved the Geoquilt II Comes to Houston Cache to a safer location.

oops, Very, Very Creepy Neuman

Thanks davidj, I'm glad you like them. That seems to be the feeling among all who have found or ordered theTx Geocoin. In my free time, I like to needle jumpmaster. I would like to think it's all in good fun but, there's no telling what he thinks! Happy Independence Day to all (even jumpmaster)! Creepy Neuman

Thanks davidj, I'm glad you like them. That seems to be the feeling among all who have found or ordered theTx Geocoin. In my free time, I like to needle jumpmaster. I would like to think it's all in good fun but, there's no telling what he thinks! Happy Independence Day to all (even jumpmaster)! Creepy Neuman

quote:I suspect that placing the coins in the collector/display coin holders, as clatmandu has done, has increased the perceived value of the coin, thus crossing the threshold of something "too good", not to keep. Y'know, Mr. G, you COULD have pointed that out BEFORE I did it for the Tx Geocoins Of course, anything from Texas naturally has a greater value!!

quote:I suspect that placing the coins in the collector/display coin holders, as clatmandu has done, has increased the perceived value of the coin, thus crossing the threshold of something "too good", not to keep. Y'know, Mr. G, you COULD have pointed that out BEFORE I did it for the Tx Geocoins Of course, anything from Texas naturally has a greater value!!

I don't think jumpmaster loves me anymore!

I don't think jumpmaster loves me anymore!