Neuman

Did you happen to see any black Suburbans or fat interns around?

Sorry for the inconvenience pnew. As we ascertained, your order was mailed but apparently lost. New coins are on the way. You had made reference in your email to trying several times to contact me but it did not click until I read this thread. I just tried emailing myself from the web page and was unsucessful. I am looking into this problem and will get it fixed ASAP. If anyone else is trying to contact me, please use the email on my public profile. Again, sorry for the inconvenience. Neuman

Is there a way to insert a URL hyperlink in a log? I have tried using the same format as in these forums, but it does not work.

I am pleased to announce that we have come to an agreemeent with Groundspeak that will allow the continued sale of the TX Geocoin. We will "ink" the deal on Monday and sales of the TX Geocoin will resume. Thanks to Jeremy, Bryan and all the Groundspeak people for their cooperation and willingness to work with me on this issue. Neuman

I am pleased to announce that we have come to an agreemeent with Groundspeak that will allow the continued sale of the TX Geocoin. We will "ink" the deal on Monday and sales of the TX Geocoin will resume. Thanks to Jeremy, Bryan and all the Groundspeak people for their cooperation and willingness to work with me on this issue. Neuman

WHY CAN'T YOU JUST LEAVE ME ALONE????? AAAAAHHHH!!!!! J/K Thanks for working with me Jeremy! Sorry again about the mix-up last week. Neuman

I am pleased to announce that we have come to an agreemeent with Groundspeak that will allow the continued sale of the TX Geocoin. We will "ink" the deal on Monday and sales of the TX Geocoin will resume.

True, FISUR, there are other numbering options. My own personal preference, however, is to have the number on the face of the coin. It's tough enough having TWO sides to look at, now you want them to look at the edge?!?! Also, I am very happy with our "mint" and their only numbering option is on the face. Thanks for reminding me about geocachetreasure. They do make a very nice coin. Neuman

The logo that works best for coinage, in my opinion, is MountainMudbug's. The only problem I can foresee would be for those who wish to have numbered coins such as theCanadian Geocoins or, my own personal favorite, the TX Geocoin As you can see on the web pages, the numbering is on the logo side. Though MountainMudbug's design has space at the bottom, the numbering is stamped in after the coins are minted and must be in a straight line. BTW - I am still working with the Groundspeak guys regarding the continued use of the modified logo on the TX Geocoin. I just wanted to offer my $.02 for anyone else who was thinking about numbering their coins. Neuman

Since somebody obviously aided and abetted the Where's Fastow travel bug in his "escape" I decided to remove him from circulation on the same day that the real Andy Fastow was "removed from circulation"!!

Since somebody obviously aided and abetted the Where's Fastow travel bug in his "escape" I decided to remove him from circulation on the same day that the real Andy Fastow was "removed from circulation"!!

By the way, my "let's hurry..." comment was referring to the little white square with a red x that appears when a file is missing. It was sort of funny until they corrected the problem and my joke made no sense (which is par for the course!) [This message was edited by Neuman on October 08, 2002 at 11:44 AM.]

Yes, they are being very cordial. Hopefully we'll come to an agreement if I can keep my foot out of my mouth long enough! I hope to speak to Bryan later this week. I'll keep you informed. [This message was edited by Neuman on October 08, 2002 at 11:44 AM.]

Jeremy, et al: Obviously, my feeble attempts at humor today were EXTREMELY feeble!! I apologize if anyone was offended by my remarks as they were writtin with no malicious intent whatsoever. On the contrary, I was attempting to inject some humor into a situation that has become way to serious. As I have never questioned y'alls rights to enforce your trademark and have complied with all of your requests concerning the TX Geocoin, I have no reason to start bashing you publicly in these forums! I've even tried to say nice things about Bryan in here but I can only lie so much JOKE JOKE JOKE Again, I'm sorry if my prior posts (which I have deleted) were taken the wrong way. Neuman [This message was edited by Neuman on October 08, 2002 at 11:45 AM.]

Jeremy RULES!!! [This message was edited by Neuman on October 07, 2002 at 03:28 PM.]

Neuman sucks [This message was edited by Neuman on October 07, 2002 at 03:27 PM.]

[This message was edited by Neuman on October 07, 2002 at 03:38 PM.]

As Jeremy mentioned, I am speaking with Bryan regarding the continued use of the logo and I am very optimistic that an equitable agreement can be reached that will allow sales of the TX Geocoin to resume. Neuman [This message was edited by Neuman on October 07, 2002 at 03:07 PM.]

As I have stated before, it was never my intention to violate anyone's trademark rights in the production of the TX Geocoin. Grounded, Inc has been very reasonable and I have I done my best to comply with their requests. As I have been contacted by fellow geocachers from other states requesting information on how to produce their own geocoin and to clarify Grounded, Inc's position on the use of their trademark, I post the following in an effort to avoid any confusion in the future: quote:Neuman, Sure, no problem. 1) Although permission has been given to some to use the Groundspeak Geocaching logo on products for sale, permission has also been denied to others for a variety of reasons. You knew that permission had not been granted to you and despite your good faith believe and assumption that “there would be no problem,” you produced goods for sale bearing the Geocaching Trademark without permission. This assumption was not correct. 2) The specific language in our logo usage policy states, “We are also willing to make allowances for those of you who have creative ideas and want to do something fun for your friends and fellow Geocachers. The Groundspeak Geocaching Logos may be used only on non-commercial items. These items may include, but are not limited to shirts, hats, coins, logbooks, stickers and cache containers. If the lifetime use of the design is less than 25 units, you may consider permission automatically granted. These items may not, under any circumstance, be sold.” We honestly believe that this policy is extremely fair as it provides broad freedom to Geocachers to use our logo. In violation of this policy, you are selling these items that “may not, under any circumstance, be sold. While we truly appreciate your love for Geocaching, we do not appreciate you selling these coins, for profit or otherwise, without our permission. 3) While we do appreciate the promotion, the ‘wound’ originates from your violation of our policy and the potential impact it may have on our ability to enforce our rights in the trademark against everyone else that would now believe it ok to place our trademark on their goods for sale. Please understand that as developers and owners of the Groundspeak trademark, we believe that our right to maintain and control the use of the trademark is invaluable. Your continued sale of these products without our permission directly impacts this right and is therefore unacceptable to us. At this point, we are once again respectfully requesting that you immediately cease and desist marketing, selling, distributing or otherwise displaying the Geocaching logo on the TX Geocoins. Once you have complied with this reasonable request, please feel free to contact me and I would be more than happy to discuss a logo licensing agreement with you for the continued use of the logo on a product or products for sale. Sincerely, Bryan And after complying with their requests: quote: Yes, you have complied. Thank you very much for your prompt response.... Thanks for your continued patience and cooperation. I am looking forward to working this out. Hopefully, we will get this all settled in the very near future. Until then, sales of the TX geocoin will stay on hold. The web page, however, will remain active for logging of the TX Geocoins already in circulation.

As I have stated before, it was never my intention to violate anyone's trademark rights in the production of the TX Geocoin. Grounded, Inc has been very reasonable and I have I done my best to comply with their requests. As I have been contacted by fellow geocachers from other states requesting information on how to produce their own geocoin and to clarify Grounded, Inc's position on the use of their trademark, I post the following in an effort to avoid any confusion in the future: quote:Neuman, Sure, no problem. 1) Although permission has been given to some to use the Groundspeak Geocaching logo on products for sale, permission has also been denied to others for a variety of reasons. You knew that permission had not been granted to you and despite your good faith believe and assumption that “there would be no problem,” you produced goods for sale bearing the Geocaching Trademark without permission. This assumption was not correct. 2) The specific language in our logo usage policy states, “We are also willing to make allowances for those of you who have creative ideas and want to do something fun for your friends and fellow Geocachers. The Groundspeak Geocaching Logos may be used only on non-commercial items. These items may include, but are not limited to shirts, hats, coins, logbooks, stickers and cache containers. If the lifetime use of the design is less than 25 units, you may consider permission automatically granted. These items may not, under any circumstance, be sold.” We honestly believe that this policy is extremely fair as it provides broad freedom to Geocachers to use our logo. In violation of this policy, you are selling these items that “may not, under any circumstance, be sold. While we truly appreciate your love for Geocaching, we do not appreciate you selling these coins, for profit or otherwise, without our permission. 3) While we do appreciate the promotion, the ‘wound’ originates from your violation of our policy and the potential impact it may have on our ability to enforce our rights in the trademark against everyone else that would now believe it ok to place our trademark on their goods for sale. Please understand that as developers and owners of the Groundspeak trademark, we believe that our right to maintain and control the use of the trademark is invaluable. Your continued sale of these products without our permission directly impacts this right and is therefore unacceptable to us. At this point, we are once again respectfully requesting that you immediately cease and desist marketing, selling, distributing or otherwise displaying the Geocaching logo on the TX Geocoins. Once you have complied with this reasonable request, please feel free to contact me and I would be more than happy to discuss a logo licensing agreement with you for the continued use of the logo on a product or products for sale. Sincerely, Bryan And after complying with their requests: quote: Yes, you have complied. Thank you very much for your prompt response.... Thanks for your continued patience and cooperation. I am looking forward to working this out. Hopefully, we will get this all settled in the very near future. Until then, sales of the TX geocoin will stay on hold. The web page, however, will remain active for logging of the TX Geocoins already in circulation.

As I have stated before, it was never my intention to violate anyone's trademark rights in the production of the TX Geocoin. Grounded, Inc has been very reasonable and I have I done my best to comply with their requests. As I have been contacted by fellow geocachers from other states requesting information on how to produce their own geocoin and to clarify Grounded, Inc's position on the use of their trademark, I post the following in an effort to avoid any confusion in the future: quote:Neuman, Sure, no problem. 1) Although permission has been given to some to use the Groundspeak Geocaching logo on products for sale, permission has also been denied to others for a variety of reasons. You knew that permission had not been granted to you and despite your good faith believe and assumption that “there would be no problem,” you produced goods for sale bearing the Geocaching Trademark without permission. This assumption was not correct. 2) The specific language in our logo usage policy states, “We are also willing to make allowances for those of you who have creative ideas and want to do something fun for your friends and fellow Geocachers. The Groundspeak Geocaching Logos may be used only on non-commercial items. These items may include, but are not limited to shirts, hats, coins, logbooks, stickers and cache containers. If the lifetime use of the design is less than 25 units, you may consider permission automatically granted. These items may not, under any circumstance, be sold.” We honestly believe that this policy is extremely fair as it provides broad freedom to Geocachers to use our logo. In violation of this policy, you are selling these items that “may not, under any circumstance, be sold. While we truly appreciate your love for Geocaching, we do not appreciate you selling these coins, for profit or otherwise, without our permission. 3) While we do appreciate the promotion, the ‘wound’ originates from your violation of our policy and the potential impact it may have on our ability to enforce our rights in the trademark against everyone else that would now believe it ok to place our trademark on their goods for sale. Please understand that as developers and owners of the Groundspeak trademark, we believe that our right to maintain and control the use of the trademark is invaluable. Your continued sale of these products without our permission directly impacts this right and is therefore unacceptable to us. At this point, we are once again respectfully requesting that you immediately cease and desist marketing, selling, distributing or otherwise displaying the Geocaching logo on the TX Geocoins. Once you have complied with this reasonable request, please feel free to contact me and I would be more than happy to discuss a logo licensing agreement with you for the continued use of the logo on a product or products for sale. Sincerely, Bryan And after complying with their requests: quote: Yes, you have complied. Thank you very much for your prompt response.... Thanks for your continued patience and cooperation. I am looking forward to working this out. Hopefully, we will get this all settled in the very near future. Until then, sales of the TX geocoin will stay on hold. The web page, however, will remain active for logging of the TX Geocoins already in circulation.

Effective immediately, sales of the TX Geocoin will be put on hold pending the outcome of discussions with Grounded, Inc., regarding a licensing agreement for the continued use of the geocaching logo. I am in hopes that my compliance with their request will be viewed favorably and that an equitable agreement will be forthcoming that will allow sales of the TX geocoin to resume. Thanks to everyone for their support. Neuman

Effective immediately, sales of the TX Geocoin will be put on hold pending the outcome of discussions with Grounded, Inc., regarding a licensing agreement for the continued use of the geocaching logo. I am in hopes that my compliance with their request will be viewed favorably and that an equitable agreement will be forthcoming that will allow sales of the TX geocoin to resume. Thanks to everyone for their support. Neuman

Effective immediately, sales of the TX Geocoin will be put on hold pending the outcome of discussions with Grounded, Inc., regarding a licensing agreement for the continued use of the geocaching logo. I am in hopes that my compliance with their request will be viewed favorably and that an equitable agreement will be forthcoming that will allow sales of the TX geocoin to resume. Thanks to everyone for their support. Neuman

An email received today: quote: I am writing today regarding your use of the Groundspeak Geocaching 4-square logo on your TX Geocoins. First off, please understand that we truly appreciate your demonstration of loyalty to our logo and the inclusion of www.geocaching.com on your coin. However, as stated in our logo licensing guidelines, "The Groundspeak Geocaching Logos may be used only on non-commercial items." Accordingly, your sale of TX Geocoins containing our logo [or derivation thereof], for profit, directly violates our policy and infringes upon our trademark. As you may or may not have read in our guidelines, Grounded, Inc. a/k/a Groundspeak started using the Groundspeak Geocaching logos over one year ago. To Geocachers and others alike, the Groundspeak Geocaching logos have come to symbolize Geocaching. It has become our signature "trade dress." After all, the only reason that people think of this logo in association with Geocaching is because we used the logo on our Geocaching.com Web Site and associated promotional merchandise. We recognize that things do get more complicated, though, when an image like the logo is so widely known that it comes to symbolize not just our products and services but also the entire game/sport of Geocaching. This is a good thing, and we want it to continue. But trademark law is sticky on this point. If a trademark isn't "protected" (by letters asking people not to use it, or by licenses that allow them to use it only in specific ways), it gets into the public domain and loses its protected status. If this happened, anyone could use the logo without restriction, including in ways that were detrimental to Geocaching. Despite your presumably genuine claim of attempting to seek permission (we have read the forums) prior to producing and selling these coins, permission to sell these coins commercially has not been granted. Consequently, in order to protect our trademark rights in the Groundspeak Geocaching 4 Square logo, and upon advice of counsel, we must respectfully request that you immediately cease and desist marketing, selling, distributing or otherwise displaying the above referenced Geocaching logo on any products whatsoever, including specifically, TX Geocoins. Sincerely, Bryan Roth Groundspeak - The Language of Location Direct 206.302.7721 x103 Fax 206.374.8161 www.Geocaching.com You are the search engine and my reply: I appreciate your email regarding the use of the geocaching logo. Please indulge me on the following points: 1)As I have stated on many occasions, I made several attempts to obtain permission from Jeremy to use the geocaching logo on the TX Geocoin. As I knew, at that time, permission had been granted to at least 2 companies/individuals (Canadian Geocoin & Moun10bike), the lifetime use of both being WELL over 25 units, I therefore assumed that there would be no problem with the logo being used on the TX geocoin as well. 2)Also, as I have stated on many occasions, I make no profit whatsoever on the TX geocoin. As a matter of fact I am currently LOSING money on this venture, but, unlike some, I am not doing this for the money but rather for the love of geocaching. 3) Lastly, a "commercial item" would be one that promotes a company or product, or that makes money for said company (see #2 above). The only thing that the TX Geocoin promotes is geocaching, www.geocaching.com and, in doing so, Grounded, Inc. (and, of course, the Great State of TEXAS!) In this respect, I do not see how the TX Geocoin has "wounded" your company in any way. Having said all of this and in the hopes of avoiding any drawn out legal battles, I would like to, again, request permission to continue using your logo on the TX geocoin. If anyone profits from this, it is you. I will be happy to open my books for your perusal if you believe otherwise. Thank you for your time in this matter. Neuman