Ratsneve

(I originally posted this reply to a reply in another thread but stretched the op's original topic to far... So I will post it here since it does offer up a new (different) "map challenge" of sorts and some new detailed questioning of how the PN-40 works connected to a PC.) Is this how one might normally connect the PN-40 to their PC at home when planning/working with routes, tracks, maps, updating PN-40 firmware/software, etc? When you plug or unplug the PN-40 does it shut off or does it stay in the same state it was in? The Colorado/Oregons have two USB modes--one for accessing files in the GPSr where you could add or delete certain files, update software, and use MapSource; and a second mode which was just for external power 5 volts, a brighter screen, and to actually use the GPS (no PC function). Internal batteries, regardless of type, are isolated (not used or charged). Whenever you plugged your MicroUSB in I always had to select either external battery or file/MapSource access. It would be nice if one USB connection/mode to the PN-40 and PC would allow all the PC connectivity, use of the GPSr, battery charging if Li-ion, isolation of other battery types, software/firmware updates, and PN-40 upload/download file structure access automagically? Here is a thought too for a future PN-40 software upgrade... Offer PN-40 connectivity to certain astonomy programs like Starry Night Pro to provide coordinate, elevation, and clock input? And you could take this much further if the PN-40 could project the local star field overhead instead of an Earth map. Fun GPS option for some but perhaps not enough interest to warrant? Has it been said and confirmed that there are no DeLorme or _3rd-party_ maps of Canadian roads and topography that the PN-40 can use? This would include being able to autoroute roads at least? Thanks.

Okay...

Holly-cow Chip. Thanks. I've lost track of all the reasons to give up the Colorados and Oregons and can't think of any reason not to get the PN-40 but its "silly" screen size.

[Groundspeak hiccup]

But...but I've just switched over from the Colorado to the Oregon! Will there be no end to these troubles? God damnit Garmin! [sorry, I thought Groundspeak would change the expression to Dog-gone-it or something.] So I visit the local REI today looking to look at a PN-20 and discover from the salesperson that REI has been having trouble with DeLorme's QC or some such--nothing specific. But REI had a whole display section of nothing but Garmin--not one PN-20.

I went into my local REI for the first time up here and discovered they didn't have any DeLorme product in stock. The salesperson--not the "GPS Master"--said they had been having trouble/issues with DeLorme. He suggested it was maybe quality control related problems but could not eleaborate more. This really shocked me but it seemed true--not one PN-20. Anyway now, I think I will just hang-out and twist and turn for awhile... The confusion feels so good.

Do you know why Garmin asked you to return the unit for exchange/repair rather then try any g-o-cashers-like simple clearing schemes first?

These Memory Full errors that you have successfully fixed so far are being described on Oregons (300s?) and not Colorados--correct? And the "more permanent version of the failure" is what I recently had occur on my Colorado which was a System Software Missing error and failure to boot in any fashion. Are you saying that you think these errors may relate or am I mistaken and the System Software Missing error on the Colorado is something else and not related to this Memory Full error on the Oregon (300s?)? My Colorado was a 400t and its "exchange" will be an Oregon 400t. Both 400t's, even after preloaded maps, have considerably more free memory remaining (> 1 GB).

Wow! Thanks again Chip. I made a startling discovery today--Bend has had an REI store for around 3 years now. Honestly, I've never needed to shop there before or I think I would have discovered it as I did today from RIE.com. I'm going to make contact with their "GPS Master" rsn. I don't think I want to hear the end of this GPS Challenge yet. I think it was G-O-Cashers who mentioned elsewhere that the CO/OR navigation search didn't include "exit services". I took this to mean, at least in part, that if you were autorouting along a highway from point A to point B and needed to find where the nearest restaurant or gas station was up ahead you would get a list of places but no clue as to their direction (at least not unless you did a goto I assume)--is it a mile behind or a mile up ahead? I never tried to do this with my Colorados but I haven't been driving any long trips--yet. I believe you mentioned and I read that the PN-40 will come with Topo7 which will include street routing? Will the PN-40 do these "exit services" searches? Is Topo7 old--shouldn't there be a Topo9 coming out soon? If the PN-20 does "exit services" too I'd like to see pictures of the map and search details, but I will go over it all soon enough at REI I hope.

Dough!

Dough!

Well?

Bit OT but if you would indulge me . . . I notice from your sig that you own both a Nuvi and a Oregon. If you would, please compare the sunlight display useability with no BL of the Nuvi and the OR. I have a Nuvi 205W, I love the touchscreen but I find the display totally unreadable in sunlight w/o BL, whereas my eTrex is great. Thanks Do this with what you remember about the CO too please.

I'll willing to bet dollars to donuts (glazed, please! LOL) the barometer bug is there. No one on these forums have ever proved they have working recorded barometer data when the unit is off. Wasn't there one CO user named Michael who demonstrated a working barometer when turned off? But I agree it is more likely there are none. It will take the next software update before all COs start working.

I don't know what you meant by the "20-20 foresight" comment, Simply that I'm impressed with Garmin's mapping language given how far technology has moved in 10+ years. It's very difficult to perceive all the future map requirements and still maintain backwards compatibility. So I'd give Garmin a "A" for their map language/foresight. Refresh my memory (if my memory can be refreshed? )...what is significant about this picture? It isn't a Garmin map is it--because the contour labels are different and the trail is black and not white?

Dad-gummit... Regarding my last Oregon statements above... I meant that the recent current Oregon posts here are positive compared to the Colorado. I actually don't have my Oregon yet--should get it as early as the end of this week or into next week. Sorry that I have mislead some people with my misleading wordage. I shouldn't soon forget my eye-opening introduction to the PN-20 (PN-40) here. I wish I could learn why DeLorme didn't introduce a larger screen, maybe even a wide screen with the PN-40? Is it locked up in maps that would have to all be changed to some degree? No doubt part of my problem here may be that I have never used any GPS portable enough to value a smaller size even with a small screen over its bigger "brothers"? I still have not taken a working PN-20 out into sunlight and compared it to a Colorado and Oregon in sunlight--all at the same time. I wish I lived near REI. The one retailer near me with all these units may be reluctant since I bought and returned my first CO from them. They may not see any sale possibility. But who knows until I ask. They should actually have equal curiosity in the "problem" of visibiltiy and screen sizes. Also, what is DeLorme's take on IPX7? Is the warranty coverage good if we deliberately go swimming or kayaking with the PN-40 where it might be kept constantly wet for long periods of time? How do you warranty IPX7? Thank you Chip for good help.

Would love to hear of any screen brightness/readability differences you note between the CO and OR screens please? I'd also like to hear from anyone who has "created" an external 5 V portable source to increase the backlight intensity of either the CO or OR and used it in full sunlight and/or poor viewing conditions? Is it worth it? My theory says yes.

Does the eXplorist 600 have an actual temp sensor point on the surface of its case somewhere that can actually read external ambient temperature accurately--once calibrated? That's cool--something Garmin didn't do with their temperature sensor attempt on the Colorado which only seems to read internal electronics temperature and is bogus for any real ambient sense. Thanks.

Yes, the complaints are and were all real and justifiable. And the eamil campaign to Garmin execs is and was justifiable too. Some Colorado owners may never be aware of accuracy issues they may be experiencing and who don't visit this particular GPS and Technology forum part of geocaching.com. I wasn't aware the Colorado could reccord barometric pressure when the unit was turned off until I read that this feature didn't work at all one day and proved that on my Colorado. I decided that I paid for that feature and I wanted to see it work. I was willing to continue to sit out the wait and promise that it would be fixed in the next update until my unit got the "system software missing" error as mysteriously as others have. If you find it to difficult to believe then you should buy a Colorado now and see how it goes for you. With any luck you will get one that seems to work just fine except for features like barometric pressure recording when the unit is set up properly for it and turned off and the useless air and water temperature displays. The many times I have talked to Garmin technical support to mention a Colorado problem I was having and mention confirmation from others experiencing the same issue on geocaching.com's forum I have been scolded sometimes not to take what has been said seriously from any forum. It is this kind of BS reaction from Garmin's own technical support that keeps me coming back here over and over again. I know we are right and they are wrong and that no one is getting anywhere. Hopefully Garmin really is getting their act straightened out but none of us that have registered Colorado units have a clue for certain. If you believe Garmin the Colorado's serious issues will be fixed in the next software update and it will be as good as the Oregon is now. That will still leave many minor software feature tweaks to continue to work on for even later updates along with the Oregon. So someone new to the scene comes along puzzled whether some of us know what we are doing or just complaining? Well that is just so typical it is cliché. Are we asking for too much for $480--heck no! One thing you can bank on for sure is that we are paying Garmin to beta test the Colorado for them in the field. Physical design from the Rock-n-Roller to water leaks and incorrectly sized O-ring seals to inadequate backlight supply voltage; and software problems to numerous to mention here--start reading all the posts and create your own list and ask yourself if you were beta testing the Colorado would you want to see something you found fixed or would you rather kick it out the door and let end-users deal with it later--a really bum attitude for Garmin as far as I'm concerned? As far as we know Garmin has zero presence on this board and hasn't read one of these posts first-hand. It is really all here to help you decide.

I hope others explore this with you further because I would like to see a way developed/understood to restore system software and file structures in the field--not requiring returning units to Garmin and the downtime that entails. Good luck.

I knew that answer once. I won't defrag.

[Was unnecessary duplicate post.]

The op made no reference to needing or wanting to go cheap.

Letter writing to execs any number of times won't hurt. It is hard to tell if it is worthwhile or not at this point. I don't believe execs would just toss your email but would rather start to think that technical support perhaps wasn't addressing problems properly? Before you email though consider here in this forum whether this really is a problem, i.e., are you trying to use this field for more then was intended? Is the description field the same as the comment field or an area that might give you more room for details? Others could answer this better to see how large their description fields are on other GPSr's like Garmin's 60CSx and Oregon or DeLorme's PN-20 or future PN-40?

You can tell how much free memory remains by hooking it up to your PC. Windows Explorer will display the Oregon's files like a virtual drive where you can look at the properties of that partition to see its total capacity, how much is used, and how much remains free. It is highly recommended that before you get too cozy moving files around you make a total complete backup of everything. Do the backup after you have everything registered and working properly but before you add or do any geocaching or routing or the like. Burn it to a CD or DVD. One day you may love yourself for taking the time now before you tinker.