Gloom

quote:Originally posted by dasein: The above sentence says it well. The Forest Service has kept this natural wonder effectively 'hidden' for years for some reason. Is it worth the risk to 'cross' the Forest Service for one cache, which could very possibly jeopardize the life of many caches already located on Forest Service 'territory?' --laurak I've already posted my personal feelings on government trying to 'babysit' it's citizens, so I won't repost that, and I ABSOLUTLY agree with laurak and Moun10bike's last post... However, ask yourself if your feelings about this cache would change if it had been placed by someone who doesn't read these forums, and didn't know about the search for the Hell Hole. What if a cacher had just stumbled across it, however unlikely that is, didn't know that the FS didn't want the location reveiled and decided it was such a cool place they wanted to place a cache there? Since there are no outward signs that the FS doesn't want people there, how would this person know? Do you think the cache should be removed if that is the case? You may argue that just because a person doesn't know it's off limits doesn't make it right. But, in this case do we actually have any inclination that the FS would disallow a cache there? All we have is the fact that they don't want the location of the Hell Hole reveiled to the average person. And it seems to me that they are doing a pretty lousy job of keeping it a secret if they allow a video to be taken there and then broadcast, they allow geologists in there who then bring their friends and family back, etc. Now, back to the specific cache. I also don't think it's a really good idea to place a cache here. The FS so far has been pretty good to us and I wouldn't want to jepordize that in any way. There is the possibility that they will find out about this cache and be so pissed off that they will ban caching from the area altogether. It also comes down to the general rule of caching, get permission from the land owner first. In general, the FS has let us pretty much do what we will with caches, but this seems to be the exception. It is in a place that they specifically don't want people to know about. That is absolutley thumbing our noses at them. We should at least approach them about allowing a cache there before placing one. You can say what you will about this thread leading more people there than a cache will, but the fact remains that (as of yet) the government can't control what is written on a geocaching.com message board. They CAN control what sort of activities are allowed on the land they control (even though it's public land, but I won't go into that). If we p!ss them off they might just turn around and ban caching on FS land altogether. As Moun10bike wrote, please THINK about the future and how this cache will affect others. there's my $10 worth. Gloom ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

quote:Originally posted by smithdw:We have had 3 fires in areas where there are caches located. Yep, one of them might be the first cache I ever placed: Halfway Up... quote:One fire was started by an idiot 17 year-old kid tossing a cigarette butt in the dry grass. It's such a shame that the carelessness of one person causes so much damage. ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

Toga! Toga! Toga! Btw, what is Animal House? Other than one of the best movies ever made? (I just reserved my copy of the "Double Secret Probation" edition, due for release next tuesday. ) ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

quote:Originally posted by Gloom:_Also, don't forget..._ Oh yeah, $2 off discount coupons are available at Thrifty Auto Parts stores, if you're, well... Thrifty. PLUS, fans will have a chance to win a 3-lap ride in a two-seat Dirt Late Model. quote:Originally posted by Bodoni:Race cars that are in control and still send dirt flying . . . Well, in control is a relative term. To quote one of the worst racecar movies ever made: "Loose is fast, and on the edge of out-of-control". However, they DO fling lots of dirt (eyewear is recommended). ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination. [This message was edited by Gloom on August 21, 2003 at 10:05 AM.] [This message was edited by Gloom on August 21, 2003 at 10:05 AM.]

Also, don't forget... The Pacific Coast Dirt Late Model series is at Banks Speedway this Saturday night. These are the big boys of dirt racing and really haul some @ss. Also on the schedule are the Bombers, Street Stocks, Cascade Hardtops and Pro-4 modifieds. <shameless plug> If you do come out, be sure to cheer for my team, keevan motorsports. We run car #21 and #31 in the bombers. </shameless plug> ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination. [This message was edited by Gloom on August 21, 2003 at 09:55 AM.]

dadgum, My first cache, Halfway up is very close to the hagelstein fire. I hope it doesn't get burned. ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

quote:Originally posted by The Tungsten Jihad!: quote:Originally posted by pkpaul:I adopted the caches so that they would not be archived. They are an important part of the history of Geocaching and I want them to stay active. Hey Paul, that is very cool of you to do. I'm actually a bit embarrassed that someone from the east coast had to take the bull by the horns and save this cache instead of one of us local folk. Actually I had emailed Jeremy that I was planning to adopt this cache as it's not too far from my parents house and I could get out there every once in a while to check on it. But I hadn't been out to find the cache and I wanted to wait to offically adopt it until I was sure I could find it. Before I had a chance to get out that way paul adopted it. Probably a good thing as I still haven't been out to look for this one, and after Paul adopted it, it fell to the bottom of my todo list. ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

quote:Originally posted by fractal:And then... "NO AND THEN!" Sorry, had to throw in the quote from possibly one of the dumbest movies ever made. That is, of course, unless you're well into that keg of adult-type beverage, then it's not too bad of a movie. ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

I'll be heading up that way around the 13th of August. Well actually, I'm headed to Kingston if that's close enough. Let me know if they haven't made it that way by then, I'll take 'em with me. ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

Been there once, as a young kid. Thought it was kinda interesting then. I saw a thing on it on TV a couple of weeks ago. They told the story of a carpenter who was there to do repair on one of the buildings. He said he didn't believe in the vortex until that day. He'd measure the space that he needed to cut a board for, then go back out to his truck (outside the vortex) and cut the board, using the same tape measure to measure it. Then when he'd take the board into the vortex to put it in place it'd be the wrong size. He tried it like 4 or 5 times and it never came out to the right size. Finally he gave in and took his tools inside and measured and cut and it fit the first time. Tall tale? you decide. ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

quote:Originally posted by smithdw:"The best way to accelerate a Macintosh is at 9.8m/sec/sec." -Marcus Dolengo ROTFL! dadgum, what a good signature!!! ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

OK, I just couldn't resist the chance to goof-off at work. I could play with this all day if it wasn't for the funny looks my cow-orkers give me when I laugh uncontrollably. anyway, here's some of my favorites: America's Most Trusted Gloom. Gloom - Australian for Beer Make Room for the Gloom Come Fly The Friendly Gloom Everything We Do is Driven by Gloom I Scream, You Scream, We All Scream for Gloom Get More From Gloom Where's The Gloom Did Somebody Say Gloom? Gloom Comes to Those Who Wait No Gloom, No Comment We're with the Gloom The Gloom is Mightier than the Sword The Gloom Effect I Can't Believe It's Not Gloom Here's some that I'm not sure I can post on a 'family' board. I swear I didn't make these up and they appeared in the order listed: Have You Had Your Gloom Today? Bet You Can't Eat Gloom Get Busy with the Gloom Any finally my favorite: You've Got Questions. We've Got Gloom ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

quote:Originally posted by leatherman:Every slack jawed moron is looking for anything to sue about. Yep. Another pet-peeve of mine. But I'll save that post for elsewhere. ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

quote:Originally posted by Bull Moose: Government agencies protecting people from themselves is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. I whole-heartedly agree with that. This is pretty much the only country in the world that seems to need to baby-sit every one of it's citizens. For example, take a trip to europe some time, and look at the canals in many of the cities. You don't seen any sort of barrier to keep you out, except maybe a chain fence. Not the cyclone kind, but the kind with posts and a chain running between them. Not even curbs on the parking spots that front up to the canals. In this country you'd have to have a wall, dozens of keep out and warning signs every 5 feet and lifeguards to watch everyone, etc.! Maybe it's my upbringing, but how is anyone ever going to learn what's dangerous and what's not if they don't experience it for themselves? If they aren't smart enough to know what's dangerous (or in the case of children, their parents aren't smart enough to teach the kids) then maybe they got what they deserved. Darwinism at it's heart. This world is too crowded as it is, why do we insist on having the government try to save every single person? Maybe if some of the people were allowed to die because of their stupidity the whole species would prosper as the idiots are removed. You've heard of the Darwin Awards, right? That's just the tip of the iceberg. Anyway, sorry for the now off-topic post, I didn't intend for it to go this way when I started typing, but it just started coming out. (edit: kind of ironic given my signature, huh?) ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

quote:Newts are slaughtered every spring as they cross roads ... Holy Sensationalism Batman! Geez, they make it sound like there's a bunch of people out there who intentionally drive around just to run over the newts. ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

I believe she's refering to this topic ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

quote:Originally posted by slinger91:One good thing to remember about the CCP permit is it's not just for guns. You'll need this permit to conceal knifes with certain blade lengths also. Another thing alot of people may not know is Washington state will honor a Oregon CCP. I'm not sure if Oregon does the same for Washington though. You better qualify that first statement about a CCP being not just for guns. I can't speak for Washington, but my Oregon CHL (Concealed Handgun License) is ONLY for ONE gun (at a time) and does NOT cover knives, billy-clubs, etc. Also, can someone point me a legislative link or something that offically says Washington accepts my Oregon CHL? The way I understood it, as a non-resident I could get a WA permit, but my OR permit was not valid. I'm up in washington alot repo'ing cars and it sucks to have to take the gun off. And, what are washington's laws on open carry? I know I could look that up myself, but I'm too busy right now and was hoping someone knew off the top of their head. Finally, I'm fairly certain that oregon does not honor other states permits. Thanks ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

quote:Originally posted by Navdog: My thinking is that the Hell Hole sounds like it is not something that is running perpendicular to a steep slope or a product of erosion from water running down a slope. Again, going from my 5-or-so year old memory of the show, it should be roughly parallel to the slope. Imagine if you will... a parallel uninverse... No, wait, that's the wrong show. Imagine if you will something semi-firm, like old playdough in an inch thick flat slab being pushed off a flat surface onto a sloping one. If everything works right, it'll tear along the transition line and leave a crevasse. Sort of like crevasses in glaciers. That's what we should be looking for. ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

quote:Originally posted by GeoNap:Is it possible that this 'hell hole' may have a small opening, like a cave perhaps? From what I remember seeing and hearing in the OFG show, it's more like a small canyon. Basically a tear in the ground where the downhill side is pulling away from the upperside leaving a rift in the ground. I have this image burned into my head of the OFG Host and the Forest Service guy crawling over bolders and rocks at the bottom of it. The bottom was only 5 or so feet at most but it opened up fairly quickly to what looked like 40 or 50 feet at the top. I remember seeing clear blue sky in the background with little or no tree coverage. It seems to me that something of that width should show up looking like a rough jagged road or stream on a satellite image. Navdog is right about the streams, a real stream would show a downward slope on both sides. I would imagine a road is going to be much straighter/smoother looking than this would, but should appear roughly the same, meaning there is no change in the topo, or at the very most a slight dip following it. Doin' my best to keep this topic alive! ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination. [This message was edited by Gloom on June 24, 2003 at 12:00 PM.]

Hmm.... this looks interesting: hell hole, stream or road? Or maybe it's the line running North-South in this image. Though I think that this looks more like a stream Both are south of Oakridge, in T21S, R3. ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

shouldn't this be "How naive are you to oregone?" ? ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

Hmmm... I remember seeing this episode 5 or 6 years ago and thinking to myself that it's not very cool of them to keep this under wraps. Sort of like how spelunkers (sp?) keep cave locations hidden. Another case of trying to coddle the population and keep them away from anything that might be dangerous (unless there's some form of monitary gain involved). Anyway, I won't get into the politics of that. I've been looking at pictures on terraserver and found some interesting looking places northwest of oakridge. Too bad I'm too busy to go do some exploring. ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

man, I read the answers to the clues in this mornings paper, you'd have to be smokin crack to make the leaps in logic some of them have. Since I can't find it online I'll copy it here. Reprinted without permission: The Oregonian's 2003 Treasure Hunt Medallion was hidden at the Nadaka Open Space, a Gresham park at about 175th Avenue and Northeast Pacific Street. Nadaka gets its name from its days as the Na-Da-Ka Camp Fire camp; the word is short for Nature Day Kamp. Clue One Treasure dawns with sunrise! Now it's quite okay to plan your course in pj's Will that be java or o.j.? Welcoming clue. Explains the debut of clues in The Oregonian's Sunrise edition. Clue Two Count on the bounty if it numbers fifteen From one of these the treasure you'll glean. "Count" and "bounty" suggest "county." This clue narrows the search to Multnomah and Clacamas counties. Both have 15 letters - if you include the word "county." Clue Three As sites go, this one is Bo. Nadia loves it, don't you know. Nadaka Open Space is 10.0 acres. Clue refers to the movie "10" starring Bo Derek and Romania's Nadia Comaneci, who was the first gymnast to score perfect 10s in competition. Clue Four Do you work alone An '03 conference coud assist. Info passes by in dribbles. Men and Women, do persist. Sends hunters east. The Big East Conference won NCAA men's and women's basketball championships this year. Clue Five From the rubble a clue! Which way, which way A menaced prince will have his say. You've got east. Here's north. Refers to Jay North, who has his say as the TV/Film voices of Bamm Bamm Rubble, Dennis the Menace and Prince Turhan of "Arabian Nights." Clue Six The lily was a beauty. But you can't re-live that fun. This ring stretches outward. A compass reads 21. Barrows the search to within 21 miles of last year's site in Camas, Wash. The Camus is a lily. Refers to a drawing compass. Clue Seven A tad too far one way and success will be denied. A stretch of 36 bounds the other side. Establishes classic east-side restaurant Tad's Chicken & Dumplinds as eastern boundary and Interstate 205 as western bondary. I-205 Oregon/Washington is 36 miles long. Clue Eight A flashy All-American has ties to land 'round here. The swift will sure get lucky. This area puts you near. Legendary greyhound P.L. Greer was a two-time All-American who won two Flashy Sir Awards. He race 'round Multnomah Greyhound Park (Multnomah Kennel Club), which is within a couple miles of the site. Clue Nine A short stint in seven and eight led the place to concentrate. Identifies Gresham. Joseph Short was Gresham's mayor during 1907-08. Clue Ten The medallion calls! See it glisten upward, bright. But only if you find the way and if you say it right. Glisan Street is often mispronounced. If you "say it right" it sounds like "glisten." This clue sends you above (north of) Glisan. Clue Eleven This clue's a beauty, trustworthy to pursue. Seek knowledge for the hunt's sake. Happiness comes to you. Beauty, Seek, trustworthy, Pursue, Knowledge and Happy are all words from the Camp Fire Law. Nadaka was once a Camp Fire day camp. ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

A persistent Aloha man this morning found The Oregonian's 2003 Treasure Hunt Medallion. Wayne Patterson, 43, and his family have been participating in the annual treasure hunt for 11 years. Patterson found the medallion about 6:20 a.m. at the Nadaka Open Space, a City of Gresham park at about 175th Avenue and Northeast Pacific Street. Patterson, an unemployed software engineer, wins $1,500 in the contest, which began with daily clues in the paper on May 19. For Patterson and his wife Lisa, the pursuit of the medallion essentially has been a lifelong adventure for their children, ages 9 and 12. ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

quote:Originally posted by Navdog:More backtracking. _ A menaced prince will have his say._ From dictionary.com: The chief of any body of men; one at the head of a class or profession; one who is pre["e]minent; as, a merchant prince; a prince of players. ``The prince of learning.'' http://www.moondog3.com http://www.moondog3.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Also going back to this... I dug up this quote from Hamlet: Hamlet: I am but mad north-northwest. maybe that's what they mean? Oh well, doesn't matter, cause it's been found! ---- Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.