HoMiPa

Yes, there definitely needs to be an archive function for images. When I get back to the office on Monday, I'll put it on the high-priority to-do list. Geez - your high priority list must be pretty long! Any update on being able to delete incorrect photos that we posted?

Take out of consideration the simple fast food resturant and yellow Jeep type waymarks and think about the more unique targets such as a President's birthplace, or a Viquesney's Doughboy statue, or a NIKE Missle plant. The big thrill of these targets is doing the research to find them AND to go find them in person without being given any coordinates. I can't explain the feeling of reward that comes from doing this, you just have to do it. Thats what its all about. Personally I could care less about driving 500+ miles to take a picture of a waymark that somebody else has already found, but I have driven that far and farther just to find a Locationless cache. If I don't require a photo by the person who creates the waymark, #1 all of the prospective waymarks will be logged up front by a few armchair waymarkers leaving nothing for newcomers and people who actually want to go visit these sites. #2 most of the waymarks since they are often in remote areas will probbably never be logged and the category owners will never get to see a photo of the site. Now for the simple fast food type caches, sure a required photo probbably shouldn't be required, but I think that should be up to the person who runs the category. I'd have to agree with DogBreath here - what difference does it matter to "Waymark Category Owner A" or "Waymark Logger A" if "Waymark Logger B" didn't actually go visit the waymark? Honestly, it seems many are making this about the numbers, yet hiding behind the excuse that it is about the experience of the visit. If "Waymark Logger B" didn't actually go visit the waymark, then really it is his/her loss - no one else's! By saying you don't care about the photo requirement for fast food resturants, I infer you are saying that they aren't as valuable as a waymark as say "granite stone outdoor fireplaces". I'm not saying they are - but, really, aren't you judging a waymark's value based on your standards, then expecting everyone else to agree with and use your standards? I think most people would have to agree, there really isn't any sense to logging a waymark you haven't actually visited. Maybe I'm being nieve, but I'd like to think that a large percentage of the people using Waymarking will use common sense logic and not create 'fake' logs of visiting a waymark. If some do, who really cares? Only those who care about the numbers care. To me, if you only care about the numbers, and are bent on watching your own or someone else's overall standing in the numbers count, then you have STILL missed the fun in Waymarking - because the fun should be about visiting a site. If you want to compare gc.com and wm.com, then really, the creation of a waymark 'equates' to a FTF on gc.com. Again, some people like to keep track of that sort of thing, some like to get as many as they can. There are many others that don't care about it one way or the other. I think those that care about it will do what they can to get out there and create those waymarks before anyone else, including armchair cachers. Good on them. But if some of those waymarks were created by someone who never actually visited the waymark, does it really matter in the long run? Again, only to those who watch 'the numbers'. Honestly, does it matter in the experience of visiting the waymark if you are visitor #1 and therefore create the waymark, or visitor #873? The experience of visiting it is no different no matter where you come in the line of logging. If it does make a difference to someone, then it really only matters to them and others that 'watch the numbers'. There are certainly plenty of people out there that REALLY only look at the experience of visiting a cache or waymark, not what number they were or how many they have found this week, month, year..... As for waymarks being created in remote areas and the fear that no one will ever log them, "build it, they will come" comes to mind. If there is also a cache within miles, someone will log the waymark at sometime. There are plenty of cachers out there that when they visit an area, they try to get every cache available - they will do the same with waymarks.

This problem with this theroy is that those that like the strict Waymarking/logging rules will vote up those categories that have strict Waymarking/logging rules. Those that don't like strict Waymarking/logging rules will vote up those categories that don't have strict Waymarking/logging rules. And vice versa. A lot of people won't bother to 'vote' at all. It won't sort anything out. People not liking strict rules will avoid those categories that require them - it won't make them be less strict. Just as those wanting strict rules may or may not avoid those categories that aren't strict - it won't make those categories be more strict. Different people see Waymarking in different ways. Some see it as only a replacement for locationless/virtual caches. Some see it as something totally different from geocaching, and look beyond the logging of a site and see the endless possibilities of a database of information Waymarking can create. Neither is right or wrong, but in the long run, it will evolve according to how people 'play the game' and how they use it. Maybe the 'voting' will have a 'say' in how it evolves, maybe not, but evolve it will - despite the many different opinions on what Waymarking should or shouldn't be.

We have created several waymarks but have not logged them. Yes, we have visited them, otherwise we wouldn't have photos. I guess at this point, with being the 'creator' of a waymark, we equate it to being the 'cache owner', and since you don't log your own cache, you wouldn't log your own waymark. I know they are different things, and I know it has been posted that it is perfectly acceptable to log your own waymark. I think we just haven't had enough time to get our brains out of the geocaching mindset and into the Waymarking mindset. We could very well log our waymarks later. In fact, if we visit them again, we will log them, even if only to update information on the waymark. Also, one of those waymarks we created we visited several months before Waymarking came into being. A couple of them we visited a couple of months before Waymarking came into being. Do we log them with the same day we created the waymark - even though we didn't actually visit them on that date? Do we log them with the actual date we visited, even though that date is before Waymarking was created? Will the system even allow that? I think I'm still just in a dilemma about how or when to log the waymarks we created! I see the Waymarking thing as a way to create a large database of things/places, etc. If I visited 6 months ago, then create a waymark today, it gives someone the location to visit to 'verify' the information I provided in when creating the waymark. Me logging it adds nothing - I'm only going to provide the information I already did to begin with. To me, logging my own waymark only adds a number count to my stats - eventually. It really adds nothing else to the waymark or the category.

I'll speak of the one category I'm familiar with - penny smasher locations. In the original LC, the requirement was that each penny smasher could only be logged once - by the person who visited it first. Understandably so, but there, that was the end of it. No one else could get any kind of 'credit' for visiting that sight - if you are into numbers. Although, to be honest, I don't believe Marki & Joani deleted multiple logs on a single penny smasher. To be honest, I think it would have been a logistical nightmare to 'police' anyway. With waymarks, the first person to create the waymark gets credit for 'owning' the waymark. They can choose to log it if they want (personally, we haven't logged the penny smasher waymarks we created - we're still 'pondering' if we should or shouldn't). But the advantage is that anyone who then visits that location, can log their visit to the waymark for their stats, or 'numbers'. On to the point I was going to make - I personally like Marki & Joani's idea that anyone can create a waymark in their catagory even if they haven't visited it. Why? Because it is a way to create a database of penny smashers and know where they are before you visit an area. In this particular category, often the smashers are located in some out of the way place. Decades ago I used to love collecting smashed pennies for myself. Then we started collecting them with the kids - this was before geocaching. Maybe they are more 'out in the open now', but I can remember walking into places, asking if they had a penny smashing machine, and getting the 'deer in the headlights' look from the person behind the counter. They either had no idea what I was talking about, or often the answer would be "I don't know", or "No, I don't think so". If anyone can create a waymark for a smashed penny machine that they knew existed at one time or another, it helps for those looking for them when they visit an area. Will I be disappointed if I visit the site and find the penny smasher no longer exists? Sure. But at least the database will then be updated by my posting that the waymark needs to be archieved. And at least I have some places to start looking for machines when I get to an out of state area that I may or may not ever visit again. Take wooden bridges for example. Again, it's a great way to have a database of a certain 'feature' or 'item' in an area you are visiting and not familiar with. If someone knows it exists, even if it was a year ago, why not let them waymark it, so that it is in the database for those to 'search' for, find, then log - and archive the waymark if needed. As for McD's being a silly waymark - yeah, okay, for us it is - we have MapSource, and if we are in search of a McD's (NOT!), then we can us our GPS to find the nearest one. However, not everyone has MapSource, or whatever similar programs there are out there. More to the point though, wooden bridges, lighthouses and penny smashers are not databased in MapSouce - this is where Waymarking comes in. Why not fill the database the quickest way possible? Why limit the potential of Waymarking by placing restrictions on those that have the knowledge of a waymark for your category? As for having mulitiple ways on the internet to find what you are looking for in an area - such as google - yeah, that works, but honestly, do you REALLY want to waste a ton of time trying to find a particular feature in a particular area, just so you can visit it when you get there? Personally, I like the potential of Waymarking being a huge one-stop shop database of information on anything you can think of that you might be interested in visiting in an area!

I don't think it's a matter of your conditions not changing, it's a matter of someone else's interpertation of your conditions. "Not near an ocean, lake or river", in my opinion, means it could probably no longer be used as a navigation tool for the said ocean, lake or river. Since the lighthouse was originally for navigation of the lake, yet no longer is really all that "near" the lake (near as is in near enough for navigation of that lake), the location of the river is somewhat irrelevant. Just my opinion, and more than likely, was the opinion of the one angered by the denial of the waymark. And perhaps I'm even way off base on the original purpose of the lighthouse - maybe it was for navigation of the lake AND the river. It is your waymark category - you make the rules and I don't think anyone denies that. However, the rules need to be stated in a way that there aren't ambiguities. Near to one person is far to another - it's all a matter of perspective, and not everyone is going to have the same perspective as you. I think that is all others are trying to point out to you. The whole waymark thing is new, and I believe part of it's purpose is to more clearly define the 'rules' for logs. I think others are just trying to suggest ways to ensure the 'rules' for Waymarking any particular category are well thought out - and with consideration of the thousands of other perspectives out there - before they are created, so as not to cause the sort of problems this one did. Will other waymarks create problems? Probably. You just happened to hit a very raw nerve of someone when perhaps they were having a very bad day. Is that your fault - certainly not. Had he approached it differently, and more constructively, it would have been a learning event for you both. Instead, it turned into this ugly thing that never should have happened. Measuring distance and taking photos of a waymark you are denying does no good though if the posted 'rules' use vague terms such as "near" and don't describe YOUR interpretation of those terms. The rules need to be clear enough so that someone will be reasonably sure that whatever they are trying to post as a waymark will be accepted - it shouldn't be a game of "geez, will THIS one work?". Otherwise, it will be too much like a battle of wills between those trying to waymark and the waymark owner - "let's see him try to deny THIS one!", or "HA, I can deny THIS one because of THIS loophole!". Please understand I am in NO way implying this is what you (Lep) did, nor do I think that of Capt Sparrow. I believe both of you, in all honesty, firmly believed you were right and just in your opinion. However, as the waymark owner, you have the advantage because you 'make the rules' - just ensure the rules are clear and understandable to all, or handle the arguements with a little more understanding to the waymarker's interpretation of what you have written.

Any method yet on how to delete photos if you have posted the wrong one?

Now I've done the same silly thing - created a waymark, and posted the wrong photo to the gallery, but there doesn't seem to be any way to remove it. I've posted the correct photo twice, but it doesn't show up, and I can't get rid of the wrong photo! HELP!

The 'grab it' method seems to work for this real yellow jeep TB! Unless of course you are the last to grab it at an event - it's been in my inventory for weeks now! http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.as...ef-a687cc482fe5

We made a similar mistake with the first couple of TBs we picked up. I didn't realize that the TB# (TBXXXX) and tracking number (XXXXXX) were two different things and that the tracking number should be 'protected'. So in my stupidity (or lack of knowlege, really), when posting our log for the cache where we removed the TBs, I provided the tracking number. Unfortunately, the TBs were picked up at TB Hotel a short distance from our house, moments before leaving on our trip. My husband walked in the house with the TBs, we logged the cache note and 'retrieved' the TBs, logged off the computer, locked the door and drove off. Four days later, we do a couple of caches where we were visiting, and make a visit to the local library to log our finds and 'drop' the TBs. We find a 4 day old email from one of the TB owners, explaining the mistake we had made by posting the tracking number in the cache log. I can't remember, but I believe he was very polite. He could have been screaming at me and calling me names and it wouldn't have mattered - I was too busy feeling like a total idiot to EVER be offended by his email! In our defense, we picked up the TBs at the last minute as an after thought - we hadn't ever picked any up because we thought to take one you had to leave one. So no time before leaving home to research logging TBs. Then, at the library, we were having a hard time dealing with the POS computer, not to mention trying to do it quickly before getting booted off at the end of our time limit. Since cache pages were taking 3-4 minutes to load, I was having a hard enough time trying to log finds and TBs, and really couldn't take the time to try to research logging the TBs correctly. Had I know before there were two different numbers related to TBs, I would have researched it in detail at home on our own computer before we traveled! I fixed the logs, but not before two TBs tracking numbers were on a cache page for 4 days. I quickly learned how to do things, and am glad to see that leaving a note on the TBs works when you are traveling and won't be near a computer for a few days. I've often worried about that, and thought of leaving a note with them. I was under the impression that so many take TBs without even reading their goals, that I doubt they would read my sticky note!

I have a question of all the TB Hotel owners that have these 'rules' concerning one for one trades only, etc. A couple have claimed they 'restock' the cache now and then because cachers don't abide by their request concerning trading one for one. So how do you go about restocking the cache? It must mean that you visit other caches, take TBs, not leaving any TBs in it's/their place, and then you restock your own cache after having removed TBs from other's caches. Seems as though you are doing to other's caches the precise thing you are asking others to not do to yours - take a TB without leaving a TB. Do you think that makes it okay because you've removed a TB from a 'regular' old cache, and your cache is a TB hotel? Even assuming that all the TBs you pick up to stock your cache are ones that you are moving in the right direction to reach their goal, how is it different if cachers stop at your cache and pick up however many TBs they can help in their goals?

Fairly new cacher, but thought I'd add a couple of points. First, a disclaimer - I cache with the family, the whole family, and to keep the kid's interest, we only search for 'regular' caches to trade trinkets. Not to mention that looking for a well hidden cache in the woods can sometimes loose their interest quickly - can't imagine what would happen if we were searching for a really well hidden, well disguised urban micro! Anyway, I think those that are mentioning the sign of 3 to mark a now moved cache missed the point about those going to an area looking for it. The one who posted the comment said that the person moving the cache may not get to post about it for hours, hence the problem with several in a day searching for it. Although the sign of 3 probably works just fine to stop anyone from really searching the area, it still does nothing to prevent 5 cachers heading to the area looking for it between the time it was moved and the time the cacher posts the move. Long term, you are right about moving caches probably being less damaging to the area though. Personally, I would find moving caches to be too frustrating. But then, we'll probably never get a FTF either, because we don't get up at the crack of dawn to cache, nor do we watch logs constantly, which I'm guessing you have to do to keep up with a moving (again, I'm guessing, so don't shoot me). Same goes for micros. To me, our GPS just screams "get out of the city and into the country!" However, thank goodness there is diversity, otherwise the world would be a pretty boring place. I can't see why anyone would want to buy a "fill in the blank here" as a vehicle, but then I'm not driving it, so those that do own the "....." can knock themselves out. Same with caches. I filter out the type I don't want to search for. But glad those types are out there, because one day I may get an urge to search for those that we filter out now.

I'll give up after this attempt! :-)

What am I doing wrong!?!!

hmmmm, I'll just keep trying. I think I've logged in and out a dozen times, but can't seem to get it to keep my avatar.......

Third times a charm, right?

testing again.....

Testing.....

Another option would be to use TerraServer - http://www.terraserver.com You can search by international city name, select an image, once the image is up, your mouse becomes a curser with geocoords shown to left of image. From there you can do a search based on those geocoords to find nearest caches.

New to this also. Ordered a 60CS for hubby for Christmas, signed up new email account, Geocache acct, created blog page, etc. - relevant data printed in notebook to hand to him after he opens his GPS. Various 'stuff' - Gecaching cache stickers, lapel pins, patches, tatoos, TBs, notebooks, pencils, sharpeners, ziplock bags, etc., etc., to create our own caches eventually - all in another box under the tree marked "For Family". Hope he's happy with it! I know I'm excited to start a new family pastime!