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Don't the later models have a dual display feature like on the 60 series? On a 60Cx, I can view both the WGS, and the NAD 27, at the same time at the bottom of the Trip Computer Page. I put the Location (lat/lon), which is always in WGS, in the top Wide Data Field. Then the Location (selected), in this case NAD 27, in the bottom Wide Data Field. This also works on other Pages that offer 2 Wide Data Fields, like on the Map Page. Also having them in the Big Numbers on the Trip Computer Page, is a big help to me. This can help one from having to do a lot of switch-a-roos.

Try Bills Electronics in Canada for help. http://billsgps.tripod.com/ Jungle Ghost repairs later models, but they might have some advice. http://www.jungleghost.com/repair_service.shtml

From Corpscon, some of the info that I would use to setup my Magellan SporTrak, or Meridian, in the User Grid, for State Plane use. Corpscon does multi conversion to/from SP, L/L, NAD 27, NAD 83, etc. SPCS 1983, Zone 4601 Projection = Lambert Semi-Major Axis of Ellipsoid = 6378137.0 Flattening = 1.0 \ 298.25722210088 False Easting = 500000.0 False Northing = 0.0 Northern Standard Parallel = 48 44 00 Southern Standard Parallel = 47 30 00 Latitude of Grid Origin = 47 00 00 Central Meridian = 120 50 00 The position page, on these older Maggies, will let me display Lat/Lon, UTM, or whatever, along with State Plane, as I walk about in the field. Even State Plane in feet at the top, and State Plane in centimeters at the bottom. They will do Trans Merc or Lambert. I can get a Garmin 60 series to display in feet, but in Trans Merc only, and the Lat cannot be set, as Garmin ties it to the Equator, really screwing things up. It will display in decimeters, if one is really close to the Equator. I have no idea about how the newer units handle the setting up the User Grid for State Plane, but the 62s, that I had for a short time, let me down. The new format showed a selection for Lambert, but when I put in the numbers it showed a blank. Then I put in -9000000 in the False N, like in a 60, and got numbers, meaning that the Lat was still tied to the Equator. I don't remember being able to get it to display in feet, only in meters.

About the time that Shirley was getting those good finds, and neat pictures, I was getting the L/L for where BM 7813 used to live. I found it about 35 or 40 years ago, when it was listed on the older 7.5 maps, but it isn't shown on the Warner Lake, Utah Provisional Edition 1985, the latest that I have. When the road was made wider, in about 1981, it was destroyed. My attempts to get an archived datasheet from the NGS site have failed, due to my error, or IE saying that it can't load the page, or nothing found. BM 7813, near N 38 32 52 W 109 17 32, needs to be reset, as it is (was) the only one in the nearby area.

From Corpscon: Loveland Pass, Vertical 29 Datum: 11,990 US Survey Feet. Vertical 88 Datum: 11,996.086 US survey Feet. 88 is most recent listed.

My Magellan SporTrak and Meridian will do the next best, XXX.YY When the plat reads 4872 ft, 271.23 deg, I can project one point 271 deg and one point 272 deg, on my 60Cx, then zoom in on the Map Page, with both showing, and gustimate where the .23 is and make a point there. Then project in mils and see how close my guess was. Helps to be close when working in the mountains

I use Garmin and Gilsson Ext Ant's for my Garmin 60 Series and Magellan Meridian. The adjustable pole, 7.5 inch ground plane, tripod combo, helps me with backyard testing, as well as property corners, mining claim corners, Section corners and Benchmarks, and other waypoints. Gilsson said that the added ground plane would help by 20 to 30 %, and would help mitigate multipath and reflected signals. It was tough finding the proper size for the ground plane, but it's right at 7.5 in or 19 cm's, so I cut out several from sheet metal. Later I found a "goodie tin", one of those round metal containers full of cookies and other goodies, that one usually gives to "Sweetie Pie" for special occasions, just the right size. When the signal from the Sat is delayed by one billionth of a second, that is equal to 1 foot of accuracy, so I figured that fussing with the ground plane was worth it. I use the 3 ft cable Gilsson on the pole, and a 9 ft cable Garmin on the pole, Pickup roof, and house roof. Also a 25 ft cable Gilsson on the house roof. I was surprised to find that my entry level yellow GPS 60 is more accurate than the 60CSx SiRF, or 60Cx MTK, when at the Survey Station, repeated random return trips to a backyard test point, or from overnight averaging, with Tracks set to one every 15 seconds, using the antennas on the roof. The scatter points on the yellow 60 were inside a 13 ft circle, with the other two being 26 and 27 ft circles. On one backyard, in the clear, test, with the CSx mounted on the top of the pole, in a plastic cocoa container and tracking every second for 15 min, showed a 15 ft long NW to SE track, with two globes of tracks in the line. Then I added the pole extension with the Ext ant on the ground plane, for another 15 min, and the zoomed in Map Page showed all of the tracks inside of a 6 ft circle. No major change in the Sat lineup. I started out with the antenna mounted on a 2 in washer attached to a sawed off broom handle. Long enough to rest inside of my belt, or slide down inside of a backpack, just it is above my head level so it sees all of the Sats. Then with the ground plane setup, I added the long pole so I could keep the ground plane level for better results.

Sometimes this works on a 60. Hard Reset Download/install the same, or a later version of the SW. Another Hard Reset Then outside for 20 min, or so, for the fresh almanac install. When all else fails, call Garmin.

frex3WV, Check with the county Surveyor's Office for an update on the location. By phone, the web, or better yet, in person.

Try selecting Time of Day in a Wide Data Field to get the seconds.That works in a 60, and I think that it worked in a 62s, that I had for a short while two years ago. When I saw the new layout on the User Grid Page on the 62s, I thought that now I can do Lambert in state Plane, but not so. The Lat was still tied to the Equator, like in a 60, and no way to select feet. Thankful that my SporTrak and Meridian work so well for State Plane use.

I made up a quick, ball park projection, from the data sheet, on my 60Cx. 59.10 ft 25 deg from KMO444, shows 39 05 14.0 108 43 57.3 for Ref 1. 50.10 ft 331 deg from KMO444, shows 39 05 13.9 108 43 57.9 for Ref 2. Ball park, but close to the previous finder. I'm just across the border, and less than 75 miles away, and about 100 feet higher than that location, so I can say that Grasscatcher chose a good day to search, as the next day started out at 14 deg and was windy! Todays 7 was a piece of cake compared with what see on the TV, that is headed East.

From my limited testing: I set a SporTrak Pro, Meridian Color, and a ProMark 3, all to display centimeters in the User Grid, and let then sit on the top of a wooden storage unit for for 20 minutes. Then I watched for another 10 minutes as the SporTrak stayed within 3 to 32 cm's of the ProMark, and the Meridian was within 5 to 37 cm's of the ProMark. Setup on a E-W plane 19 cm's apart. The ProMark was showing most of the movement, as usually after about 15 minutes the SporTrak and Meridian's cm's will settle in the averaging mode. I haven't found a way to setup a ProMark 3 the same way that Garmin "does" the User Grid, but when set to hddd.ddddd, and not averaging, the yellow GPS 60 read the same as the ProMark 3, and the Sirf 60CSx was showing one number different. On a 60 I can cheat on the Scale and show grid feet in Trans Merc by putting in 3.2808333, but with the Lat tied to the Equator, it screws things up when comparing to the Maggies and the ProMark. When I had the 62s I ried to setup the User Grid to display in feet, but failed, as it would only show in meters, in Trans Merc, and the Lat is still tied to the Equator. Dang it, I sure wish that Garmin's units could be setup to display in cm's, so I could compare them to the Magellans!

I'm not much of a Compass Page user, working mostly with the Map Page. On a 60, I select Course for the Go To Line in the Map Page setup, which locks in a line from from the starting point to the destination, like the Depart-Dest Line is in my Mericolor. Then I can toggle between the Course and Bearing, on the Map Page, if I need to, from Menu>Setup Map, then I hit the Rocker up once, which selects the Go To Line selection. And one can add choices in the Data Fields on the Map Page, like Bearing, Course, Off Course, To Course, etc. I returned the 62s, that I had a couple of years ago, after a few days of use, so I never got to check any of this out. I used the Classic Profile.

I use Corpscon to convert to/from State Plane, NAD 27, and NAD 83. I haven't found a web site that will convert between NAD 83 and WGS 84. On my old MobileMapper, the one that is like a refined Meridian Color, on the Position Page, will let me put 84 in the Primary and 83 in the Secondary position. It shows that 84 is about 2 ft N and 4 ft W of 83. This is for my Utah location, but it will be less of a difference as one goes E, and more as one goes W. When set to DEG.DDDDD, and DEG/Min.MMM, 84 shows one number farther N and one number farther W than 83. Seeing how close that NAD 83 and WGS 84 are to showing the same position numbers, is probably why Garmin, Maggie, and others, don't show the difference in their handhelds for us regular user folks.

If Garmin would only make manuals like that one, for all of their newer units...... Another helper: http://gpsinformation.net/gps5/g5review.htm

On one of my last outside test, I compared a SporTrak Pro, and a Meridian Color, side by side with a ProMark 3, all setup to display in centimeters, in the User Grid. They were left sitting on the top of a wooden storage unit for about 20 minutes, averaging, before I checked on them. During the next 10 min the SporTrak was at worst, 32 cm's EW, and 28 cm's NS. At best it showed 3 cm's EW, and 2 cm's NS difference from the PM 3. The Meridian was close to the same, being 37 cm's EW and 32 cm's NS, at worst, and 5 cm's EW and 3 cm's NS at best. All three times that I have gone over to a nearby survey station, the PM 3 was within 1.5 feet of the point L/L. I always felt that under ideal conditions, the older Maggies were capable of close to a meter in accuracy, and sometimes sub meter. When I set the Garmin GPS 60 (yellow one) and the PM 3 to hddd.ddddd. they both read the same numbers, and the 60CSx Sirf read one number off from the PM 3. Garmin makes it "tuff" trying to do the small stuff in the User Grid, even though I can cheat in the Scale and get a 60 to show in feet. Then there is that thing of the Lat being tie to the Equator, so one has to play with minus numbers. The 62s, that I had for a short while, was no better. I'm still trying to figure out how to setup the PM 3 to be able to compare it with the 60 series Garmins in Grid Feet. When I let a 60CSx, connected to the external antenna on the roof, average in Grid Feet for three nights, it showed the same for two nights, and was off one foot the last night. I've done a lot of other testing in the backyard with, and without, the units connected to an ext ant, ground plane, pole, tripod setup. Testing is endless, and I'm still trying and learning. Thanks for the HDTP site, as mine got lost some time ago in a crash. In recent times I've been using the first MobileMapper, as it will display the "real" NAD 83. At my location, WGS 84 is about 4 ft W of 83, and 2 ft N of 83.

Sometimes Garmin will repair a On/Off button problem for free, even when outside of the warrenty time, as it is a known problem. I tried the drop of glue trick on the bottem of the button, but I didn't have the right kind of glue. What worked for me: Batteries out, six screws out, gentle pry the back off, bottom end first. There is only about 1/4 to 1/2 in of play between the front and back due to the wires. The top rubber piece that is over the antenna, is held in place by the grooves in the front and back pieces, and several sticky places on top. I was able to fingernail pry the top out of the grooves. Then pull the top piece off exposing the antenna and the button hole. I then found a plastic rod, from my junk box, just the right size for the button hole. Cut off the end about 1/16 of an inch, or a tad shorter, dropped it into the hold, as a spacer, repositioned the top, worked good as new. Next was reseating the top into the groove in the front first, then reposition the rubber seal between the halves as I joined the back to the front and the top into the groove. Forgot to mention that all six screws are the same length, so no sweat putting them back in the right place. The button top was split in half, so I was able to glue it together ok.

http://billsgps.tripod.com/index.html Bills Electronics in Canada keeps our older Maggies alive and well.

Make up a route of the 4 corners of the search area, and at the bottom right of that route page select map, and it will show drawn lines around the area. I had to pan the white arrow, from the starting point, over to the black arrow so I could see if it would show my tracks as I moved about, and it does so in the GPS 60 and the 60CSx. For this property, I started with the SW cor, then SE cor, NE cor, NW cor, and back to the SW cor. All I needed was the L/L for the starting SW cor, as I could then use the projection feature to put in the other corners since I knew the distance and directions. After making the first waypoint, I hit menu and selected Add To Route, starting a new route, and doing the same for each new point If I get the order messed up, I hit entr and Move, to get the points order correct. If you leave this map page, to go check on how many of the 10,000 tracks you have used up, you have to start over and reselect the Route Page to get back to the "box". Thankful that a lot of this can be done in the Demo Mode. Sometimes the Lat/Lon Grid lines being on can help when using a yellow GPS 60, since it has such a bare Map Page.

Late yesterday, I tried to find 24 from my Utah location, on a 60Cx. After a few minutes I checked the Sat Page and could see a bar for 24, but no icon. Then I let it continue to download a new Almanac for about 15 minutes. Then I did a reboot, and there was 24 up in the NE, replacing 9. Still had a 9 bar, but no icon. Then I did the same with the GPS 60, and after the reboot 9 was showing, but I could see a tad bit of 24 showing behind it. This morning they were west of me, still 90% covering each other. When I updated the SporTrak, and then a reboot, it also showed 24 behind and just a wee bit above 9. Good that I did this before 11 AM MST, just before they fell off of the SW corner of the Sat Page When I checked the above link, it showed the two almost covering each other, along with the tracking history. I guess then 24 must be replacing 9.

41.3411802267,-87.2758845330 Convers to: 41 20 28.24882 87 16 33.18432 Corpscon>Help>Deg-Min-Sec Converter

Both can be viewed at the same time, on any page that will let me select 2 Wide Data Fields, like at the bottom of the Trip Computer Small Numbers Page, on my 60Cx. Enter the two Locations in those fields. I like using the Trip Computer Big Numbers Page best, for the older eyes, with the Location (lat/lon) on top, and (selected) below. Then I made a CG waypoint, with the hddd.ddddd, went to the Demo Mode, Sat Page, New Location, Use Map, scrolled and panned over to CG, hit Entr, and the Big Numbers are showing N 39 33.083 W 088 37.333 over N 39.55139 W 088.62222. Also shows on the Map Page, where I selected the 2 Wide Data Fields. Can be used world wide for viewing other formats along with lat/lon. With Speed selected in all three Big Number Data Fields, it makes it easier when checking against the vehicle speedometer.

I set up a GPS 60 and a 60Cx, with the data listed above, in the User Grid and User Datum, and get the same results in both units: in North Russia. In the Demo mode or GPS on. I made a waypoint and entered the cache User Grid numbers, and it changed them to: 2138372 9654707 Which is still in N Russia. Then I panned the white arrow on the Map page to line up the numbers listed above, which is way up N in Russia. I've been using the User Grid for years, with the Garmin 60 series and the older Magellans, for State Plane in the US, so I must be overlooking something. I'll try my hand at doing the PM thing tomorrow, when I have a clearer head.

Doug, When on the User UTM Grid page, hit Menu>Restore Defaults>Entr to see the original settings. Now you can hit Quit, and reselect the User UTM Grid, which will have the new settings, or hit Save, and keep the Defaults. I found how to do this from having one of my "Senior Moments" by forgetting to hit Save. On the 62s, that I had for a short time, the format on the User Grid page was changed to include the Lat, but it was still tied to the Equator, like on the older units, meaning that I still had to enter a - number to use in Utah. The older Magellans are a lot easier to use, as I can enter the Lat/Lon of the SW cor of this property and work off of it.

My 60Cx is showing it almost off of the map, in North Russia.