O.K. Here is all the associated email. Let the court be the judge.
User bthomas has been emailed with the following message:
Not sure if you or Woof! left Geocoin # 2 at the Wake Up cache.
If it was you and you really want Geocoin #2 to get to that specific person, don't remember her name (Xxxxxxx?), I can make arrangements to mail it to her at a 3rd party address (Mailboxes,Etc or something like that.) Just couldn't pass it up but we want the Universe to be back in balance.
It if is not important we will place it in the Santa Rosa area or in a new cache we will be placing soon.
I sent this message to Woof! also.
Ed at Team Sagefox
User Gorak has contacted you with the following message:
I'm sure by now you have recieved a ton of email from others and are aware of the controversy you created by taking the Geocoin destined for Frankenlurch. Please add my name to the list of people who believe you exercised poor judgement and acted hastily. I truly believe you should ensure that Frankenlurch recieves the Geocoin in question and that you offer him a very sincere, if not public, apology. In the end I'm sure you'll do the right thing.
User Kealia has contacted you with the following message:
While I am in no way the 'cache police' your recent post on the "Wake Up" cache in San Francisco made me contact you.
In short, I would agree whole-heartedly with Frankenlurch that what you did was wrong. Your rationale of "..but I really wanted it.." is what I would expect to hear from a child, not from an adult (or parent nontheless). I hope that your son was not with you when you made this choice=
User Frankenlurch has contacted you with the following message:
I was very disappointed and upset at your taking the coin that Xxx had left for me. I posted a log on the cache page. Well, Xxx is very generous, and suggested that maybe you didn't see the note (although you said right in your log that you did), and that you were willing to snail mail the coin down here. Is that true? He said that I should contact you. So, in hopes that you do want to bring harmony about, and because Xxx is very sweet and has faith in people, I'm asking. Please let me know if you are indeed willing to do that and I'll send you an address.
My response to frankenlurch:
Yes, in fact my offer to mail the coin to you went out simultneoulsy with my post to your cache. It was never our intention that the coin would be denied to you if it was a solid intention of the placer that it get to you. Your geocaching name was not in the ziplock or I would have emailed you directly. I wanted to log the coin as a find - which I did find - and which I have logged, so now it is free to get back to you.
The confusing part for me was the five day delay. I have traded objects with cachers on a few occasions but we completed the transactions in less than 24 hours and the items were far less valuable. I have also recently received geocoins from a cacher who really wanted me to be able to log them but we made arrangements for immediate pick up. We knew they wouldn't last 24 hours in the Seattle area. Perhaps the heat wave slowed down the action last week.
I have also seen people put a lot of effort into these hand-offs and then the recipient doesn't show up for the pick up. We couldn't tell if you were really interested. In any event I wasn't worried about breaking any written or unwritten geocaching tenet because while it is in my care it can't wander off in the hands of others. Had you or Xxx not responded I would have resorted to one of the previous methods of atoning for my sin.
As I offered to Xxx, you can send me a third party address if it would make you feel more comfortable. I always make this offer to people we mail wayward geocaching objects to.
Anyway... I am sorry that I put you and others through this turmoil. We liked your cache and it's cool hiding place. My wife only makes it to about 10% of our posted finds but she is most often the finder when we are together. We tackled this one as a team and she "just happened" to pick the correct side.
Ed Mckinley - Team Sagefox
Public apology posted on the cache page:
I do sincerely apologize for the turmoil I have caused with this coin.
Woof response to my email:
I'm really not sure what the problem is with the geocoin. I think bthomas was the one who left it there, did he not log it in? Anywho, I am also unaware of there being a specific goal for the coin so feel free to move it anywhere you like.
Sorry for not being more helpful, I have very limited computer access for these types of things at the moment.
Bthomas response to my email:
Ah! Xxxx missed that geocoin at SOMA Little Pictures, so I put it in her
cache, Wake Up. I've sent a copy of this msg to her, so perhaps she will
contact you. Thank you are attempting to achieve balance.
Email from frankenlurch following my email to her:
Thank you for trying to make things right. I will give you my address to send it to so we can end this thing and go back to our passion of GeoCaching. Since you seem like a zen-like person, I will just make one suggestion to you. Take it or leave it. You make many, many excuses for actions you know to be wrong. Justification of something that is wrong is insulting to you as well as the person you do it to. Stop it. Listen to what you know is right and do it. From what I have read of your post so far - you seem much better than that.
ok - I know you are trying to do the right thing and that is sooooo cool.
Peace, love and Geocaching forever.
San Francisco, Ca
My email response to frankenlurch’s email:
Thanks for the thoughts and comments but lets not get too carried away here. I have a sense of right thought and right actions to be sure and once in awhile actually accomplish them. I don't feel wrong about taking the coin but do feel bad about causing people pain. In that regard it was a bad decision on my part.
While I have never been faced with this situation before and hope not to be in the future, if I do see something this unique (and this coveted in the geo community) I might take the same course of action. I might push the idle-in-the-cache factor up to 10 days instead of five but as long I know that I can and would willingly do what ever it takes, after the fact, to rectify the misdirection I don’t think I would be too worried. I would write the log entry differently though…
That's an idea - let me try it here and pretend I was clear enough to say it this way the first time:
"Dear Xxxx (your name was in the Ziploc). Team Sagefox has temporarily rerouted your geocoin. It is just too special to be sitting here alone for 5 days, susceptible to harm and I have not, as yet, been able to find one of these to log. It will be spending a few days on a short holiday on the Northcoast. Please email an address to me (not your own) so I can mail it to you."
Oh well, that was then and this is now. It is interesting to me to occasionally have something out of the ordinary happen.
Anyway… It will go out in today’s mail.
Now I think - good idea, revise the log to reduce future yapping.
Revised my cache find log:
Found this cache walking back from Barry bonds 654th home run and Pac Bell's 31st splash hit in McCovey Cove.
Took the geocoin intended for another cacher who's cache name was not available at the time of our find or our original web entry. It has been in this container for five days including most of Saturday. That is too long for something this special and coveted to be sitting in a cache.
Emailed both of the previous coin placers simultaneously with posting this find that if the coin is really intended for this person and they really want it we will mail it to them at a 3rd party address, otherwise we will place it in a cache in Santa Rosa or in one of our new caches.
Posted two photos: Xxxx's coin and Barry’s homer
Frankenlurch seems to be o.k. with the revised entry – she posted this note:
September 16 by Frankenlurch (157 found)
Nice editing job to your post Team Sagefox!
Now it starts to get interesting with this note posted by bthomas:
September 13 by bthomas (1570 found)
Point of clarification: Geocoin#2 was physically placed on 9/13 at 3pm, and logged on the cache page the next morning.
My next note posted to the cache page:
With Ben's recent note the Universe is now aligning itself again. This is starting to read like an Adrian Monk mystery.
We printed out the cache page on the 11th. At that exact point in time ShaneP and the GeoKids had NOT YET posted their find entry but apparently HAD posted the ShaneP V5 coin because it is listed in the travel bug position at the top right of our printed cache page. SP's find log was posted sometime after we printed our page.
Then later in the day on the 8th: ONE coin was removed from the cache by bt, the ShaneP V5. ONE Canadian coin was left in the cache by bt. ONE additional coin was left in the cache by Woof! – "Dropping a geocoin that hasn't been logged." We assumed this was Geocoin #2. That made the tally appear to be correct, TWO coins logged into the container – TWO coins found.
Our recollection is that there was no entry in the cache log book since the 8th. We could be wrong about this but we remarked at the time that no one had been here for five days. I suspect bt did not log the G2 coin in the tiny log book because the coin was in a bag clearly marked to be saved for Xxxx. He notified her shortly thereafter and she then rushed out to get it. A perfect geocoin handoff. Almost.
In retrospect I suspect that Woof!'s entry regarding leaving an unlogged geocoin was actually a reference to the coin bt left and not an additional coin. There should then have been only one coin in the container during the week until 3 pm on Saturday. If not, and if there were two coins in the cache at the close of day on the 8th, then we have another mystery on our hands and may God have mercy on our poor souls.
So now we can begin to close out this thread: The G2 coin was not five days musty but merely less than three hours in the cache. It was placed there 16 minutes prior to Bond's 654th home run as documented in our earlier photo. While Barry was trotting the bases with a slight grin Xxx was walking away from Wake Up with a self-knowing smile.
We would not have taken the G2 coin if we had known it was less than five days old. We specifically decided at the site that 5 was our magic number. We did not take the Canadian coin because we already have two of them that we have not yet placed. I was hoping to use them as bait in new caches in the Santa Rosa area but I am willing to mail them to any of the aggrieved parties in this matter. And finally, the G2 is, by now, in or south of the North Bay Mail Sorting Facility on its way to Xxxx.
Too much excitement for one cache. I guess Team Sagefox will just keep to the north side of the Golden Gate where we know the ropes and our name is not equated with mud.
Frankenlurch has logged a cache on your watch list (Wake Up!). You can visit the cache at the following link: User comments:
Okay, final note, and then we'll let this whole thing lie. I believe that the ORIGINAL post from Team Sagefox should be included as a part of this whole history. Because it was a part, and a big part, of the whole thing. So this is what the original post said BEFORE it was edited:
original post is at the head of this topic – I'm too embarrassed by it to reproduce it again here
So, with that posted, all I can say is that it's not nice, or in the spirit of what Geocaching is all about, to covet items in caches. It's greed and it's wrong.
End of subject.
I responded to frankenlurch's post with an email to her
I truly am sorry that I hurt you. I made an error in judgment.
Reply from frankenlurch
Thank you, I truly do appreciate that very much.
p.s. It arrived today, thank you.