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Sagefox

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  1. Clarification: Team Sagefox removed ONLY OUR OWN caches where automobile access on/off roads and highways was less than optimal and the potential for third party injury existed. It is wacky how the ommission of one or two words can cause a comment to be misinterpreted.
  2. Should be my last P.S. Showed Spark (my wife and caching partner) what has been happening in my life. She listened patiently and remarked: "Well I hope you learned your lesson!"
  3. Before I get in trouble at home I'd better clarify that Spark has been present at more like 25% of our finds. This monster has tentacles reaching everywhere - even my work is suffering from this diversion. Think I'm going to swear off geocoins and all travel bugs without instruction tags. Maybe change our cache name to TNLN.
  4. O.K. Here is all the associated email. Let the court be the judge. User bthomas has been emailed with the following message: bthomas, Not sure if you or Woof! left Geocoin # 2 at the Wake Up cache. If it was you and you really want Geocoin #2 to get to that specific person, don't remember her name (Xxxxxxx?), I can make arrangements to mail it to her at a 3rd party address (Mailboxes,Etc or something like that.) Just couldn't pass it up but we want the Universe to be back in balance. It if is not important we will place it in the Santa Rosa area or in a new cache we will be placing soon. I sent this message to Woof! also. Ed at Team Sagefox User Gorak has contacted you with the following message: Hi Sagefox, I'm sure by now you have recieved a ton of email from others and are aware of the controversy you created by taking the Geocoin destined for Frankenlurch. Please add my name to the list of people who believe you exercised poor judgement and acted hastily. I truly believe you should ensure that Frankenlurch recieves the Geocoin in question and that you offer him a very sincere, if not public, apology. In the end I'm sure you'll do the right thing. Best regards, Gorak User Kealia has contacted you with the following message: While I am in no way the 'cache police' your recent post on the "Wake Up" cache in San Francisco made me contact you. In short, I would agree whole-heartedly with Frankenlurch that what you did was wrong. Your rationale of "..but I really wanted it.." is what I would expect to hear from a child, not from an adult (or parent nontheless). I hope that your son was not with you when you made this choice= User Frankenlurch has contacted you with the following message: Hello, I was very disappointed and upset at your taking the coin that Xxx had left for me. I posted a log on the cache page. Well, Xxx is very generous, and suggested that maybe you didn't see the note (although you said right in your log that you did), and that you were willing to snail mail the coin down here. Is that true? He said that I should contact you. So, in hopes that you do want to bring harmony about, and because Xxx is very sweet and has faith in people, I'm asking. Please let me know if you are indeed willing to do that and I'll send you an address. Thank you, Xxxx (Frankenlurch) My response to frankenlurch: Yes, in fact my offer to mail the coin to you went out simultneoulsy with my post to your cache. It was never our intention that the coin would be denied to you if it was a solid intention of the placer that it get to you. Your geocaching name was not in the ziplock or I would have emailed you directly. I wanted to log the coin as a find - which I did find - and which I have logged, so now it is free to get back to you. The confusing part for me was the five day delay. I have traded objects with cachers on a few occasions but we completed the transactions in less than 24 hours and the items were far less valuable. I have also recently received geocoins from a cacher who really wanted me to be able to log them but we made arrangements for immediate pick up. We knew they wouldn't last 24 hours in the Seattle area. Perhaps the heat wave slowed down the action last week. I have also seen people put a lot of effort into these hand-offs and then the recipient doesn't show up for the pick up. We couldn't tell if you were really interested. In any event I wasn't worried about breaking any written or unwritten geocaching tenet because while it is in my care it can't wander off in the hands of others. Had you or Xxx not responded I would have resorted to one of the previous methods of atoning for my sin. As I offered to Xxx, you can send me a third party address if it would make you feel more comfortable. I always make this offer to people we mail wayward geocaching objects to. Anyway... I am sorry that I put you and others through this turmoil. We liked your cache and it's cool hiding place. My wife only makes it to about 10% of our posted finds but she is most often the finder when we are together. We tackled this one as a team and she "just happened" to pick the correct side. Ed Mckinley - Team Sagefox Public apology posted on the cache page: I do sincerely apologize for the turmoil I have caused with this coin. Woof response to my email: I'm really not sure what the problem is with the geocoin. I think bthomas was the one who left it there, did he not log it in? Anywho, I am also unaware of there being a specific goal for the coin so feel free to move it anywhere you like. Sorry for not being more helpful, I have very limited computer access for these types of things at the moment. Woof! Happy Holloween, Xxily Bthomas response to my email: Ah! Xxxx missed that geocoin at SOMA Little Pictures, so I put it in her cache, Wake Up. I've sent a copy of this msg to her, so perhaps she will contact you. Thank you are attempting to achieve balance. Xxx Email from frankenlurch following my email to her: Thank you for trying to make things right. I will give you my address to send it to so we can end this thing and go back to our passion of GeoCaching. Since you seem like a zen-like person, I will just make one suggestion to you. Take it or leave it. You make many, many excuses for actions you know to be wrong. Justification of something that is wrong is insulting to you as well as the person you do it to. Stop it. Listen to what you know is right and do it. From what I have read of your post so far - you seem much better than that. ok - I know you are trying to do the right thing and that is sooooo cool. Peace, love and Geocaching forever. Xxxx Xxxxxxxx Street San Francisco, Ca My email response to frankenlurch’s email: Thanks for the thoughts and comments but lets not get too carried away here. I have a sense of right thought and right actions to be sure and once in awhile actually accomplish them. I don't feel wrong about taking the coin but do feel bad about causing people pain. In that regard it was a bad decision on my part. While I have never been faced with this situation before and hope not to be in the future, if I do see something this unique (and this coveted in the geo community) I might take the same course of action. I might push the idle-in-the-cache factor up to 10 days instead of five but as long I know that I can and would willingly do what ever it takes, after the fact, to rectify the misdirection I don’t think I would be too worried. I would write the log entry differently though… That's an idea - let me try it here and pretend I was clear enough to say it this way the first time: "Dear Xxxx (your name was in the Ziploc). Team Sagefox has temporarily rerouted your geocoin. It is just too special to be sitting here alone for 5 days, susceptible to harm and I have not, as yet, been able to find one of these to log. It will be spending a few days on a short holiday on the Northcoast. Please email an address to me (not your own) so I can mail it to you." Oh well, that was then and this is now. It is interesting to me to occasionally have something out of the ordinary happen. Anyway… It will go out in today’s mail. Frankenlurch’s Thanks Ed, Xxxx Now I think - good idea, revise the log to reduce future yapping. Revised my cache find log: Found this cache walking back from Barry bonds 654th home run and Pac Bell's 31st splash hit in McCovey Cove. Took the geocoin intended for another cacher who's cache name was not available at the time of our find or our original web entry. It has been in this container for five days including most of Saturday. That is too long for something this special and coveted to be sitting in a cache. Emailed both of the previous coin placers simultaneously with posting this find that if the coin is really intended for this person and they really want it we will mail it to them at a 3rd party address, otherwise we will place it in a cache in Santa Rosa or in one of our new caches. Posted two photos: Xxxx's coin and Barry’s homer Frankenlurch seems to be o.k. with the revised entry – she posted this note: September 16 by Frankenlurch (157 found) Nice editing job to your post Team Sagefox! Now it starts to get interesting with this note posted by bthomas: September 13 by bthomas (1570 found) Point of clarification: Geocoin#2 was physically placed on 9/13 at 3pm, and logged on the cache page the next morning. My next note posted to the cache page: With Ben's recent note the Universe is now aligning itself again. This is starting to read like an Adrian Monk mystery. We printed out the cache page on the 11th. At that exact point in time ShaneP and the GeoKids had NOT YET posted their find entry but apparently HAD posted the ShaneP V5 coin because it is listed in the travel bug position at the top right of our printed cache page. SP's find log was posted sometime after we printed our page. Then later in the day on the 8th: ONE coin was removed from the cache by bt, the ShaneP V5. ONE Canadian coin was left in the cache by bt. ONE additional coin was left in the cache by Woof! – "Dropping a geocoin that hasn't been logged." We assumed this was Geocoin #2. That made the tally appear to be correct, TWO coins logged into the container – TWO coins found. Our recollection is that there was no entry in the cache log book since the 8th. We could be wrong about this but we remarked at the time that no one had been here for five days. I suspect bt did not log the G2 coin in the tiny log book because the coin was in a bag clearly marked to be saved for Xxxx. He notified her shortly thereafter and she then rushed out to get it. A perfect geocoin handoff. Almost. In retrospect I suspect that Woof!'s entry regarding leaving an unlogged geocoin was actually a reference to the coin bt left and not an additional coin. There should then have been only one coin in the container during the week until 3 pm on Saturday. If not, and if there were two coins in the cache at the close of day on the 8th, then we have another mystery on our hands and may God have mercy on our poor souls. So now we can begin to close out this thread: The G2 coin was not five days musty but merely less than three hours in the cache. It was placed there 16 minutes prior to Bond's 654th home run as documented in our earlier photo. While Barry was trotting the bases with a slight grin Xxx was walking away from Wake Up with a self-knowing smile. We would not have taken the G2 coin if we had known it was less than five days old. We specifically decided at the site that 5 was our magic number. We did not take the Canadian coin because we already have two of them that we have not yet placed. I was hoping to use them as bait in new caches in the Santa Rosa area but I am willing to mail them to any of the aggrieved parties in this matter. And finally, the G2 is, by now, in or south of the North Bay Mail Sorting Facility on its way to Xxxx. Too much excitement for one cache. I guess Team Sagefox will just keep to the north side of the Golden Gate where we know the ropes and our name is not equated with mud. then Frankenlurch has logged a cache on your watch list (Wake Up!). You can visit the cache at the following link: User comments: Okay, final note, and then we'll let this whole thing lie. I believe that the ORIGINAL post from Team Sagefox should be included as a part of this whole history. Because it was a part, and a big part, of the whole thing. So this is what the original post said BEFORE it was edited: original post is at the head of this topic – I'm too embarrassed by it to reproduce it again here So, with that posted, all I can say is that it's not nice, or in the spirit of what Geocaching is all about, to covet items in caches. It's greed and it's wrong. End of subject. I responded to frankenlurch's post with an email to her I truly am sorry that I hurt you. I made an error in judgment. Ed Reply from frankenlurch Thank you, I truly do appreciate that very much. Xxxx p.s. It arrived today, thank you.
  5. I am the one who took the coin. I just found this thread as I am not a forum regular. Too bad I didn't see it earlier. Interesting how far people can take a ball and run with it. I hope some of you are still watching this thread so you can read "the other side". Truly, as noted above, two mistakes I made were: 1. Not thinking clearly enough to realize that all I needed was the coin tracking number to log the find (we'd been outside all day in 90+ degree weather and this is the first coin I've found other than by pre-arrangement), and 2. Exposing my personal dilemma about the coin's circumstances in a poorly written post. (Is the message here "don't ever be honest" O.K., I'll never let that happen again.) All logical and rational interpretation of the unedited posts would have led anyone to believe that two coins, including the G2, had been sitting in this cache for one week including all day Saturday, the day we picked it up. The unedited coin posts for Sept 8 appear to contain misleading information. It is likely that Woof! and bthomas were referring to one and the same coin and did not actually leave two separate coins on that day. This can be assumed from a later clarifying post by bfthomas wherein he notes he actually placed the G2 on the 13th just two hours before we got there. I assumed that the coin, which was clearly labeled - Save for Xxxx – was intended to be a drop off/pick up which appears to be common with coins. I also interpreted the five day delay to mean that Xxxx might not be all that interested. Also projected that the next cacher to come along will make the same assumptions and take the coin and I will have missed a chance to add that cool and, yes, coveted little coin badge to our profile page. After re-reading the posts and agonizing over this for 15 minutes I decided to take it and sort it out after we got home. Another part of geocaching I like is email comm. with other cachers to sort out travel bug problems, like picking up a TB in Portland, Or. and finding out when you arrive in Las Vegas that it was intended to stay in Portland. (No instruction card attached.) There are lots of interesting and fun ways to solve the problem that can result in interesting and fun communication with other cachers. Woof! and bthomas can attest that simultaneously with my logging of the cache and coin finds Sunday night I emailed each of them a note, it not being clear at the time who placed the G2. The note posed the question: If it was you (who placed the coin) and you really want Geocoin #2 to get to that specific person, I can make arrangements to mail it to her at a 3rd party address (Mailboxes,Etc or something like that.) Just couldn't pass it up but we want the Universe to be back in balance. If is not important we will place it in the Santa Rosa area or in a new cache we will be placing soon. The receiver's cache name was not in the Ziploc or I would have emailed her directly. I hate that the term Outside The Box is so overworked but I sometimes geocache that way. This is a little farther outside than I've ever been before and it is a bit scary out here all by myself. The entire comedy (tragedy?) of errors centers around it appearing to me that the coin was sitting there out of apathy or that the placer did not properly communicate with the intended receiver. The later was not true in this case but if it had been they would have paid for it only by a delay of a few days mail time. After reading through the above two pages I have lost all resolve to defend my five day apathy rule, which we informally made up on that hot afternoon. For conceiving that ill-advised rule I throw myself prostrate before this court. I don't believe I'll be using it again because apathy in this case turned out to be unclear and missing log entries. I can't imagine a circumstance where I would ever take any other type of trade object from a cache that was clearly marked for someone else but travel bugs and geocoins are primarily intended to be CIRCULATED. Maybe subjects for other topics include whether, or not, caches should be used as post office boxes and how much time a coveted item, meant to be circulated, should be left in a cache. I have deleted everything I entered on the Wake Up cache page including our find log because it was looking too much like a forum there and my posts tend to be lengthy. I had previously posted an apology on that page and twice privately apologized to the recipient. We have never intentionally harmed another cacher and never will. Can't promise that I won't **** someone off but we play the game the way it is generally accepted that it be played.
  6. Please hold this thread open for a few minutes, I'm working on a post for I am the one who took the coin.
  7. To Groundclutter and all others. The side trip to this cache is relatively easy, especially if you have street maps in your gps. We travel between Norhtern California and Seattle frequently and have made this side trip more than once. Non cachers will enjoy rural Oregon.
  8. Radios are great. That is how my wife keeps track of me whether caching or not.
  9. Sagefox is the name of our Vanagon and is its license plate. We like deserts.
  10. There are many great and wonderful aspects to geocaching as cache find logs testify to. Statictics are just one of the things I enjoy. I like "soft" competition. I celebrate when I go ahead of cachers in the same find range as me and I celebrate when they go ahead of me. I enjoy seeing someone get their 100th find as well as those who get their 1000th. The numbers show how active others are. Our increasing find count is the final reward for a busy weekend or road trip. The last thing I do when logging in multiple cache finds is go to our profile page and just be proud of what I see. At least I used to do that with the old profile page. It is another form of communication. If I see a Forman post and it shows 546 finds and the last time I checked he had 529 I now know he was out having fun last weekend. I check Wienerdog’s profile page often to see what they are up to literally and figuratively. I know what 20 new finds means in terms of physical and mental activity. It pleases me greatly to check up on other cachers to see that they are active. I really like to see the numbers. I am disappointed that the new profile page does not show the total find numbers though I think the breakdown is very nice. I would be VERY disappointed if the numbers disappeared. It would likely slow down my rate of geocaching if the numbers disappeared and, yes, I would definitly become less interested. My two cents.
  11. I have a copy of the proposed logo in a jpeg format. How do I get it posted on this site?
  12. It is absolutely true Wienerdog. I threw my body prostrate on the geo-holy ground and cried over and over; "we’re not worthy, we’re not worthy". Have the photos to prove it but not sure how to get HTML or photos into these posts. I think a plaque is a great idea and have committed to a cash contribution. Hope this works out and hope others contribute enough to get the logo on the plaque. I also would go back there again to see the monument. Not sure why this didn't post earlier - hope it doesn't post twice.
  13. It is absolutely true Wienerdog. I threw my body prostrate on the geo-holy ground and cried over and over; "we’re not worthy, we’re not worthy". Have the photos to prove it but not sure how to get HTML or photos into these posts. I think a plaque is a great idea and have committed to a cash contribution. Hope this works out and hope others contribute enough to get the logo on the plaque. I also would go back there again to see the exact spot. If you build it...
  14. Having just made the pilgrimage to the original site where I threw my body prostrate on the geo-holy ground and cried over and over; “we’re not worthy, we’re not worthy”, I think a plaque is a great idea. I picture something small and very simple, flush with the ground much like a benchmark and likely only to be found by geocachers and occasional road maintenance crews. The concrete base could be about the size of the original 5 gallon bucket and ideally in the original location. That would be cool. I will donate money to the cause no matter what size and shape is chosen.
  15. I don't completely agree with this policy. I didn't respond earlier this year because I understand the potential for caches being placed where they shouldn't be. For our out of area caches we now make maintenance arrangements and place a hidden HTML note on the page for the approver to see. I suspect most people commenting on this subject don't travel and live in remote areas like we and many other cachers do. We love to make frequent stops for caching while on 700 to 2500 mile trips. It makes a long, sleepy drive much more fun. We have discovered some very wonderful places in the Mojave Desert, Owens Valley, Central Oregon, and Northern California because vacationing cachers left their marks. I pray for out of area cachers to place new caches in our remote Northern California County even if they are from out-of-state because there are too few local cache placers. How else are we going to get new caches to find here? I would like to see special consideration given for remote areas because if this policy is strictly adhered to, attrition will take a big bite out of our future vacations. We plan to place caches in the California deserts next spring but I haven't yet figured out how to get them approved.
  16. I'm all fixed up and logging again. Thanks Jeremy. And I did see the cool new login line that tells exactly who is logged in. Nice that you could start your week out with a new problem so you can forget the old ones momentarily.
  17. I haven’t been able to log on to individual cache pages for two days. Appears to be the same problem others have. From My Cache Page or, from the Find Cache page or, from clicking links to caches from watch list email I can’t get access to the individual cache pages. When the cache page comes up it says I am logged out. When I click to log in I get shunted to My Cache Page which says I am logged in. I can log benchmarks and I can get into travel bug pages. This started the same time the Nearest Caches list changed.
  18. Well here is another twist for consideration. Death Valley Rocks cache is not on the Ft. Irwin reservation. I was with the owner when we placed it in Death Valley. A simple transposed number posted the cache many miles from the actual location. Usually a FTF attempt would have discovered the error but since there are no public roads in the remote Ft Irwin area no one was interested in chasing after it. Death Valley Rocks and companion Panamint Rock Cache were an attempt to place caches in Death Valley National Park respectful of park rules. The caches are made out of native rocks and contain only rocks as trade items. We were wondering why people were hitting one cache but not the other. Cacher mrcpu's intent to bring our attention to this error produced immediate results. Thanks.
  19. I'm not clear on what the software mechanical problems are but I like the numbers being posted. I use them for the psychological profile I compile for hider/finders. If the numbers only update with each log or edit that is fine with me. I rely on the numbers in many ways: To sort out no-find notes as in, if 5 newbys can't find it I might go for it. I like to see how names I recognize are doing and I don't have time to check out all the profiles. I like to see the experience level of the finder as I read their notes. Its fun to see early cache-maturity in newer cachers and late maturity some of "old-timers". I'm sure there are more reasons but maily I noticed what happend for me when the numbers disappeared. I didn't like it!
  20. Sagefox

    Rechargable GPS

    Trouble with a proprietary rechargable in a gps is that when the battery goes dead you are dead. Unless, I suppose, you buy two $45 batteries.
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