NeecesandNephews

You posted your complaint after your reviewer announced no more caches of this nature will be published. You wrote, "This WAS NOT an ALR and I can't imagine anyone in their right mind would have read it as such." It appears to me as that you did belittle your reviewer. Consider another possibility -- one that gives a little more credit to your reviewer. Perhaps your reviewer wasn't aware of how other reviewers were applying the guideline in question. (As Keystone noted, humans won't always be perfectly consistent.) When your reviewer became aware of how others were applying the guideline, he decided that such an application made sense. Your reviewer then decided on his own that no more caches of this sort should be published. Do you have reading comprehension issues??? I mean really... I asking a serious question, not "belittling" you. Are you reading my posts completely, or just glossing over it?? As opposed to what you are doing , I am not speculating what happened. Please note the bolded portion in the quote above. Couple quick questions for you, also...What part of "why don't we take this to PM?' did you not comprehend?? What is your compelling need to continue to debate this topic?? Do you need to have the last word?? Post away then.. Stick a fork in me... I'm done!!

No, as I noted earlier, I think this part of the cache listing guideline strongly encourages: "FTF'er should place the next cache in the series (The Curse of the FTF (T-Town)#(next # in sequence) within 2 weeks." You might disagree, but neither you nor I are the ones who determine whether a particular cache meets Groundspeak guidelines. It is the reviewers and Groundspeak. Apparently your reviewer has made a decision you disagree with. That doesn't mean you should belittle them. In a previous post, you wrote: I guess there is a communication breakdown between what I am writing and how you are interpreting it. I DID NOT "belittle" my Reviewer. He PUBLISHED the cache over a year ago. Therefore he obviously APPROVED it. ONLY after the mention of this series earlier in this thread, did he receive notification that no further caches of this sort should be published. So the decision was obviously NOT his own. Anything else I need to clarify for you, or do you choose to continue to read more into my posts than is actually there?? Feel free to PM me if you wish to continue, as this is really derailing the original topic.

My guess is that this is a reference to the following: But I think the ALR issue is secondary in this case. The ALR ban is under section III. 1. Logging of All Physical Geocaches. The restriction on requiring or strongly encouraging the placement of new caches is under section II. 4. Solicitation and Commercial Content. Thanks Nira!! I was just being rhetorical. Just to clarify... I understand the guidelines quoted, and their application in this instance, even though I think its a stretch. It doesn't really matter. The official word has been issued. I just came on to voice my opinion and feelings on the matter. Debating the guidelines or their application is pretty much pointless, and that was not really my intent. I simply voiced my disagreement. Happy reading, posting, and caching to all of you!!! And Merry Christmas!!! edit; spelling

As others have already noted earlier in this thread, here is one Groundspeak guideline that applies: Emphasis added. Well, you did imply that the series reviewer was not "in their right mind." It appears to me that the cache listing page strongly encourages the placement of a chain-letter type of series: Speaking of antagonistic... yeah I added my conveyance of understanding in the edit to my post. But thanks for taking up the slack for Keystone, and speaking for him. I'm sure he was busy with the end of days preparation. "strongly encourage"??? You actually believe bad juju is a "strong" encouragement?? Thats funny right there!! Where did I imply that the series reviewer was not in his right mind??? He published the cache over a year ago. And you call me antagonistic.

Thanks for chiming in Keystone!! Just curious...could I inquire as to exactly what guidance you are referring to? I can't see any violation, nor am I being antagonistic. What was it about those listings that was unacceptable? edit to add: ummm... never mind. I can see where the insinuation of "bad juju" is most definitely "strongly encouraging" the placing of another cache. And seeing that this is our last day on the planet and all... I guess it really is a moot point. Good grief.

I have to say... I am amazed by the "troublemaking power" of these forums. Earlier in this thread Totem mentioned a series of caches placed locally, similar to the one the OP was inquiring about. These caches, in the sense of fun, insinuated a "curse" would fall on the FTF if they did not choose to place another cache. Again... this was done in the sense of fun. This WAS NOT an ALR and I can't imagine anyone in their right mind would have read it as such. The CO clearly states that it is NOT a requirement. And it only applied ( if that person chose to play along) to the FTF. As a result of some disgruntled Forum reader's complaint, our Reviewer has announced that no more caches of this nature shall be published. Thanks a lot. I have not participated in these Forums for some time, although I do come and read quite often. This is one of the reasons. I would venture a guess that the "complainant" probably doesn't even live in this area, has never found these caches, and doesn't really give a crap about the local groups promotion of the sport. I have watched the Southwest Area Geocachers, of Oklahoma form and grow into a wonderful group of cachers, dedicated to promoting friend and fellowship between cachers, promoting good stewardship of their respective caches, and the local area, through MANY events such a CITO, trail maintenance, cemetery rescues, pot luck dinners ect. They have done more to promote Geocaching as a whole in this area, than has been done before. As a result Geocaching has a great reputation in Lawton and the surrounding area, and many new players have been added to the sport, together with a proliferation of many great new caches. I am saddened that anyone would take away from this in any way. And I struggle to understand the motivation behind it. The cache listing was posted above in a previous post, and I think if you read it you would see that no listing guidelines have been violated. At least... IMHO they haven't. edit to add: While you are on the cache page, read the logs. These are many of the locals, who obviously enjoy playing this game together.

To the OP.... if you don't mind me asking... what exactly was the purpose of this thread?? You say you own two Virtuals yourself, yet you quote bogus logs from someone elses. Are you proposing archiving the two you have for that reason? Or are you trying to get the one you quoted from archived?? (seems Planet may have spoiled that for you) Inquiring minds want to know. 4wheelin' keep that popcorn handy.

I think the name "Virtual" is associated with a different experience (meaning) for todays computer users. I wonder if any of them get that they have to actually visit. I think they don't. May be adding to the confusion. I had a new cacher tell me that there was this type of cache (Virtual) that you could log online without having to leave the house. Told me it was excellent for keeping a streak alive. I didn't have the heart to explain it to them. I just said " I hope that works out for ya".

Paging Dr. Keystone. Please report to the Forums a.s.a.p.

I would try to work with the Reviewer in your area. They generally love to help . I would also try working with other cache owners, especially the one that has the PM cache. They should be more than willing to help if you explain the situation. And also, take what you read here with a grain of salt. The Forums can seem pretty "edgy" sometimes. If you are caching for free because of financial reasons, I can spot you the Membership. (not prying into your business, just offering) Send me a private message. Nice to see that I'm not the only sucker to a zombied thread! Oh SNAP!! Well, can't say I didn't try. I am gonna have to pay just a littttlle more attention. Had to come back and see who had the shovel. The OP was probably a Nigerian Prince too. Wow do I feel foolish.

I would try to work with the Reviewer in your area. They generally love to help . I would also try working with other cache owners, especially the one that has the PM cache. They should be more than willing to help if you explain the situation. And also, take what you read here with a grain of salt. The Forums can seem pretty "edgy" sometimes. If you are caching for free because of financial reasons, I can spot you the Membership. (not prying into your business, just offering) Send me a private message.

Post #3 in this thread. The third thread about this same incident btw.

It can take weeks!!! In the meantime, you can search the forum for previous posts of the same question. edit spelling

I cannot say it is or is not a scam. The point I am trying to make is... why do so many people automatically have no doubt it is a scam? At least give the guy a chance to play out his hand. Or turn his next card. I can't believe the "panic" responses that appeared instantly. I have to wonder what game all of you are playing. This whole geocache setup is ripe for exploitation, yet people wander blissfully along. Lets say a criminal sets up an account here. (all it takes is a freemail addy) Find a cache in a remote location, and set up and wait for a victim. Cacher/s show up and out steps a dude with a GPS hanging from his neck and a 357 in his back pocket. Cacher/s automatically assume he is harmlessly looking for the same thing they are. Turn their back on him. Next thing all their stuff is now all his stuff. Better yet he could post a fake remotely located cache, and he would not have to wait very long at all before the FTF hounds came charging in. Easy pickings. Robbers, rapists, kidnappers... anyone could be waiting. I wonder if thats why urban LPCs are so popular? Another thread someone is talking about placing a cache on their own (remote) property. Criminal stakes out his driveway, waits for them to leave, goes up to scope it out. Someone comes along, they have an excuse for being there. Later a LEO stops them at the end of HO's driveway, they show him their GPS but not the HO's big screen, home computer, ect. in the trunk. Instant alibi!!! But OMG!!! Someone got an email!!! Delete it!!! Run and hide!!! Report it to Groundspeak right away!! I mean c'mon people. Its not like the dude can steal his stuff right through his monitor screen. I could get almost as much information about your home local, your travel habits, ect. right here, as I could from an email response. Probably more. I have to laugh at this whole situation. Or at least at the reaction.Am I the only one who finds this bizarre?? We drive our $___ vehicle out to the middle of freaking nowhere, get out with cell phone/gps, probably wallet, keys to vehicle, and wander off into the brush because the internet website told us there was tupperware hidden out there, but we panic if we get an email?? Now that is funny. edit-delete possibly offensive comment. Well, I guess I'm completely wrong here, nothing at all bad can happen here.I'm sorry I even brought up how this might be a scam. I guess since the OP and I are a little suspicious, and you are a much more willing to "give the guy a chance"....Maybe you could give the scammer , I'm sorry, lovebird your info. and have him send it to you. Then you can post about the wonderful experience you had with the whole thing, and show us how foolish we were. Thanks again for showing me how foolish I was in my thinking. For crying out loud, don't get all butthurt over my comments. Scammers can't get squat from you that you don't give them. And as far as giving the "scammer" my info, if I was anywhere near his girlfriend I would probably do just that. Unfortunately, I doubt she would want to travel to Oklahoma to find a pair of earrings. And I never said you were foolish. edit to remove response to wrong poster

If you sent them a message through an e-mail that's probably why you did not get a response. Emails are notoriously untrustworthy. Or so I have gathered.

He's even gone so far as to post in the Off-Topic forum!!! Amen to that brother!!! You have to be trusting to venture in there!!! I think at one time the sitemap had a note on it along side the Off Topic heading that said " here thar be sarpents"!!!!

I cannot say it is or is not a scam. The point I am trying to make is... why do so many people automatically have no doubt it is a scam? At least give the guy a chance to play out his hand. Or turn his next card. I can't believe the "panic" responses that appeared instantly. I have to wonder what game all of you are playing. This whole geocache setup is ripe for exploitation, yet people wander blissfully along. Lets say a criminal sets up an account here. (all it takes is a freemail addy) Find a cache in a remote location, and set up and wait for a victim. Cacher/s show up and out steps a dude with a GPS hanging from his neck and a 357 in his back pocket. Cacher/s automatically assume he is harmlessly looking for the same thing they are. Turn their back on him. Next thing all their stuff is now all his stuff. Better yet he could post a fake remotely located cache, and he would not have to wait very long at all before the FTF hounds came charging in. Easy pickings. Robbers, rapists, kidnappers... anyone could be waiting. I wonder if thats why urban LPCs are so popular? Another thread someone is talking about placing a cache on their own (remote) property. Criminal stakes out his driveway, waits for them to leave, goes up to scope it out. Someone comes along, they have an excuse for being there. Later a LEO stops them at the end of HO's driveway, they show him their GPS but not the HO's big screen, home computer, ect. in the trunk. Instant alibi!!! But OMG!!! Someone got an email!!! Delete it!!! Run and hide!!! Report it to Groundspeak right away!! I mean c'mon people. Its not like the dude can steal his stuff right through his monitor screen. I could get almost as much information about your home local, your travel habits, ect. right here, as I could from an email response. Probably more. I have to laugh at this whole situation. Or at least at the reaction.Am I the only one who finds this bizarre?? We drive our $___ vehicle out to the middle of freaking nowhere, get out with cell phone/gps, probably wallet, keys to vehicle, and wander off into the brush because the internet website told us there was tupperware hidden out there, but we panic if we get an email?? Now that is funny. edit-delete possibly offensive comment.

Wow, what a dangerous view of the internet to maintain.... I see now why the African Bank Princes keep sending emails. Wow that is an alarmist view to live with. Perhaps you could explain how my view affects the number of "African Bank Princes" emails?? I am trusting... DO NOT read into that "I am stupid or careless". They ARE NOT the same thing. I've been online for years, buy online, pay online, bank online, am a member of upwards of a dozen forums and chat groups, pay all my household bills online, manage my investments online... ad naseum. I facebook, I tweet, I used to myspace, all that stuff. I have yet to have my identity stolen or any one of my online accounts hacked. So go ahead... tell me I am lucky. That's a load. "That which you fear the most, and that which you admire the most, can own you." But only you can allow that. I will not live under the bondage of constant fear. You want to live like that??? Rock on!

Thats just sad. Is this what we have become?? Count me out of "that" crowd. I still believe in trusting strangers until they give me some good reason not to. And everyone likes to say that geocachers are the most wonderful people.

Yup... guilty as charged! And in that context I wouldn't be offended if someone called me that!! Thanks for the laugh Mrs B.!!

Wow, I thought I was cynical. Sounds like a romantic. Would guess probably young too. What do you have to lose??? He is not asking you to buy the gift. He is asking you to hide it. I would probably give it a shot. I would, as mentioned in prev posts, NOT give him my home address. Have him mail it to general delivery. If it is really a pair of nice earrings, the guy is taking quite a leap of faith in thinking he can trust you to not just keep them. As I said... probably young. I think the idea is charming, and would try to help him out. When the package arrived, I would check to be sure just what was in it, and either attempt to cache it, or destroy it, or turn it over to local authorities, depending on what was in it. Of course it could be some terrorist plot to send anthrax into your neighborhood as big brother would like you to believe. Making it easier to justify using more of your tax dollars to protect you from just this sort of thing. Wow... its funny how times have changed and we have two different thought processes to consider. I choose the positive one (at least today) and would probably try to help. I am sure that because I used the word "anthrax" and "terrorist" together in an internet post, I probably just went onto some kind of list and my actions will be monitored for the next ten years. I hate what this world has become.( Now I am being cynical. )

Give him the link to the OX website and suggest that the caches there are far greater than the ones we have here.

Well... I agree... the "guest" posting the negative remarks was tacky to say the least. The voting comment blog is not the place to post such a thing. BUT... neither is it the place to post an announcement that you grabbed a cache on the way to the hospital to give birth. Tacky again.

http://support.Groun...g=kb.page&id=54 This should get you headed in the right direction!!

Toz rest assured none of what I posted was directed at you. You and I have had this discussion on many threads, and I have to feel we have reached what could loosely be described as "agreement". I am not so anal that I am going to condemn everything or everyone who does not follow the "guidelines" as I interpret them. Nor am I going to accuse anyone of "cheating" or being "dishonest". You and I know what a find is. I have agreed with you several times about the cache owners right to be anal, or not be. Nowhere is it etched in stone that there are never any extenuating circumstances. Even the cacher and cache owner in the OP can agree to what is or isn't a find as it was described. The comment I made in post 35 was generalizing, but in defense of that comment, I have found many cachers have a pretty liberal view on how the game is played. Its not necessarily the way I play it, and it helps me better understand how some might rack up quick numbers. I could up my find count by quite a few smileys if I played that way. I also love the way comments can be "seized" upon and made out to be something they are not. I am amazed someone can read the tone and inflection of my typing so well!!! Bottom line is... it doesn't make a rats behind what I think about how someone else caches. Who am I??? I don't understand why anyone would give my words so much weight. If you feel the need to impress me with your numbers (for some unknown reason) and you throw out say, 15,000, don't be surprised if I am not impressed. If you really feel the need to impress me, show me you are able to keep from compromising your integrity for a simple yellow icon. Which opens yet another question of what is integrity. These comments are not directed at you Toz, but again, just generalizing. I am not going to go on and on over a simple comment. Thanks as always for posting Toz, as I appreciate your contributions to the forums and to the game. No matter if we see eye to eye or not. And let it be known ( to clear up any mistaken assumptions) when I use the words "many, few, most, ect. " it is in reference to the small circle of the caching world I travel in, or read about. Hope that does not add new fodder for someone to jump on and critique. ETA-clarification