pathfind2003

Do you think this cache will upset the "got to get every cache within 100 miles cachers". I'm quite proud of this cache. Take a look at what we had to go through to place it here. How long before anyone gets to it? Any Bets?

Besides... it would drive the "gotta get every cache within 100 miles of me" types absolutely nuts. Yeah, it would drive them nuts.

Funny log from the guy that tried to find it.

Only kayaking there would be dangerous. If some takes a fishing boat, or inflatable, then it would be much less dangerous. But it is the open water of Lake Michigan, which is kayaked all the time, but has it's risks. For instance, the record for wave height on the Lake is assumed to be 45 feet, but the worst this year was 7-10 feet. Most of the time they are 1-3 foot. Obviously, if the weather turns, then it is dangerous. If the weather stays nice, no problem.

By the way, we plan to pool are cash and maybe add $50-$100 to it for the FTF.

This week we are heading out on an expedition. We will be kayaking from Michigan's Upper Peninsula to Rock Island in Wisconsin. We will (hopefully) be placing a cache near an abandoned lighthouse on a island called "Poverty Island". This island has no ferry service and no population and lies about 6 miles from the nearest mainland shoreline. It is a very dangerous trip by kayak. That said, what do you think. Too dangerous. I expect to get about 2 finds every decade. I (or another) expect to be able to visit the island about every 6 months. Any thoughts. Not much more difficult than the Antarctic caches. The expedition team website for more info on the location. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

I haven't done anything too outrageous yet, but I have only been doing this for about 3 months, but. . . I paddle a kayak 7 miles down the Flat River in Michigan in early December, go to the Island, got the cache, signed the log, another 3 miles on the river. 22 degrees by the way. Then I landed in the middle of know where, dragged my yak .56 miles through bush, then 1.8 miles down a two track to a road. Unlocked my mountain bike from a tree, lock by kayak to the tree, camo'ed it. Rode the mountain bike 12 miles back to my truck, went back for the kayak, then headed home. Only about 4 hours for one cache, but I'm looking foward to kayaking to Rock Island in the Middle of Lake Michigan with my team and getting a FTF for a cache that has been there for about a year and a half. (Unless someone has found it by now).

I couldn't find mine on the Camelbak website, so here is a pic.

Why did you stay away from Camelbak? I don't remember which one, but I have a Camelbak with everything you describe to a tee. And it holds 100oz (3 liters) of water. It also has outside attachments I have hooked rope, carabiners, ascenders, etc. All this for $60 on sale.

Well, maybe you could, but I was under the impression that he would only use one instrument. The surveyor you talk about would have used land and terrain features to make an accurate map. If you use a compass, maybe do some triangulation, then I thought that would be cheating. At least that was my impression of the post. As far as a previous post mentioning a sextant finding only latitude. Not true, but finding latitude is easy enough. The first thing you need to do is measure the angle between the horizon and the sun when the sun is at its highest point, which is right around noontime on your watch. A quick look at your trusty tables tells you which line of latitude the sun should be above on that particular day. For example, let's say it's noon on December 21, and the sun is directly overhead. Well, on that day the sun is above the Tropic of Capricorn, so your latitude would have to be 23.5 degrees S. That said, you have a chart the size of seven King James Bibles to geocache all day. Longitude is a little more complicated The good thing, if you're a navigator, is that the Earth spins around at such an even pace. Every hour it moves 15 degrees. This means that if the sun is above the longitude of 0 degrees at noon, one hour later it will be above 15 degrees West. Now if you have a chronometer (fancy name meaning "extremely accurate clock"), you can find your longitude. Let's say that the sun is directly overhead and your chronometer, which was set to noon when you were at 0 degrees, says it's 3 o'clock. This means that three hours ago the sun was overhead at this latitude at 0 degrees longitude. In those three hours, the sun moved 15 degrees 3 times, or 45 degrees. So you're at 45 degrees West. Of course, the fact that the sun was directly overhead (which very rarely happens) made it especially convenient for finding your longitude, but you could have found your longitude anyway, with the help of your tables. Or, you could just follow the little arrow on a little handheld device. EVEN on cloudy days. What fun this stuff is. Pathfinder

If only the coordinates were posted in a more intuitive manner, such as "a stone throw's north of the big maple east of the sewage lagoon". The problem with geocaching is those darn numbers that force us to use gadgets to get our goods. Go a country mile as the crow flies tword the bend in the river. After two moons the spirit will speak as a coyote, you have found the prize. That's what I'm talking about.

>Assuming you had nearly perfect conditions and a clear horrizon, a >hight quality sextant can apparently get to within +/- 0.2 knotical >miles. But generally, getting within a knotical mile is doing >exceptionally well, even for an experienced user. >Better stick to the map and compass. For those of you who didn't to the calculation .2 nautical miles is about 1215 ft. Me? I use a stick and stones to find direction, look at the moss on the trees, sniff the air, and guess.

Oh no, You guys are getting all nice and emotional. Great! Now I suppose, someone is going to "Open Up". UGH!!!

The difference between NAD27 and WGS84/NAD83 can be off as much as 200 meters. The difference isn't always that large, but is usually off.

Right on Renegade Knight. On your GPS go to Setup, and select Datums. Choose WGS84 or NAD83 (if it doesn't have the WGS84). Pathfinder

I wouldn't use UTM for geocaching. Because, most Multis will give you new coordinates in Lat/Long, which means to enter them, you have to change your coordinate system. UTM is used by land navigators because everything is in meters, Degrees are never constant, so you cannot determine distance, easily. Each grid square on a UTM map is 1000 meters or one Kilometer. A degree of Longitude is 69 and some odd miles at the equator, but the further north you go, the less miles in a degree. That makes it EXTREMELY hard to navigate and do calculations. In fact, only Mariners and Geocachers seem to use Degrees, Minutes and Seconds. Real navigators use UTM. That said, I use UTM if I am going to find a Cache with a map and compass, but I use Degrees Minutes.Minutes if I am going to use a GPS. I hope that helps. Pathfinder

My 8 year old daughter got the exporist 200. I like the sounds of the 400, 500, and 600 with the USB ports. But here is my complaint about the explorist 200: the antenna isn't as good as your typical magellan GPSr, IMO. Anybody else have thoughts on this? I'm a big fan of the Sportrak's antenna. I swear I could almost go caving with that thing and still get a signal.

She has intent to steal. She knows it belongs to you and she took it from a location in which you placed it and you had the intent to keep it there. Yes, it is stealing. If you want to pursue it, then think small claims (civil) not criminal. In fact, have your friends put caches there, have her steal them, then file all kinds of complaints in small claims court take up tons of her time. I still like the crack idea.

Superglue the container shut with 4 lbs of crack inside, let her see you leave it near her yard, then call the police when she takes it. Just kidding.

angusfire, I have always been a fan of land navigation without a GPSr. However, on occasion, I have used a GPSr, why? Because before I used one, I actually got lost a lot, and I mean lost (this was 15-20 years ago). 6 times in remote Canada. Took 3 days once to find myself and get out. A GPS is a tool that supplements our basic land nav skills. The name for searching for items without a GPSr is called Orienteering, the name of the sport for searching for items with a GPSr is Geocaching. That's great that you can actually navigate without one, but if Geocaching didn't use a GPSr (most of the time), then it would be as popular as orienteering (which isn't very popular). I used to be just like you. GPSrs are a worthless item, you shouldn't use them, they will just get you in trouble. Blah, Blah, Blah. Its a personal choice IMO. I keep one turned off in my backpack, and when I'm facing another 3 days of being lost in the Bush, I pull it out, turn it on, plot my position (which is a skill everyone should know well.) Why do I use it. It is more fun to finish a trip doing what I want, than wandering around look for landmarks, for three days, that may or may not be on my map. Reliance (soley) on a GPSr is another story. When I was in the Army in NC, I was on a search team for the MP's at Ft Bragg. We received a call for a lost party. They (on a cell phone) gave us their exact coordinates. When they were asked why they were lost, they stated they had no idea where that was. They had no map. They had no sense. I have seen others unable to navigate, because they couldn't take the UTM coordinates from a GPS and plot them on a map. Alas, if you are a true land navigator, then you should realize, that the reason the UTM coordinates are listed under the lat/long in every geocache is because land navigators can find Geocaches without a GPSr. Your not alone, I find some with and some without. It is fun either way. Cache with vigor. Pathfinder

7' Coyote? Have you ever seen a 12' man. C'mon. True story. My mothers friend has a small poodle (10lbs or so). She let him out one night to do its thing, then she heard it screaming and yelping. She went outside to see three coyotes take off across the yard. One with the poddle in its mouth. She watch the coyote reach the end of the yard then flip straight up in the air and drop the poddle. The poddle limped back to the house, basically unharmed. Why did the coyote "flip out" when it reached the end of the yard. Well, we are all guessing, but the poddle had an electric fence collar on, and when it reached the end of the yard, it got shocked (in its mouth), then drop the poodle. Neat Stuff. So wear an electric fence collar if your worried. Seriously, I have hunted them for about 8 years now, at night. They love to come after my dog (who is trained to decoy them). They chase her, right into a .22 caliber rifle. $35 a hide right now. Anyways, I wouldn't be too worried, they are territorial and sometimes, they are so focused on my dog they pay attention to nothing else. They can also be rabid, and lose their mind (any animal can), but that is rare. Don't be afraid of them, be cautious and ready. An high pitched airhorn will keep most at bay. Think high pitched noise, chemical spray (bear spray), loud pop guns, etc.

If you can't find it at the above link, then send me the coordinates by e-mail and I will send a PDF map with the location. I can produce maps for US and Canada. Pathfinder

http://www.topozone.com/viewmaps.asp

If it is in the US or it's territory you can go here and click on coordinate finder http://www.fortunebaycompany.com/Maps/mapsmain.htm or http://www.topozone.com/viewmaps.asp

Hey guys, Thanks for all your work and discussion on the issue.