Soxter & Billini
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Posts posted by Soxter & Billini
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The drawings posted are certainly very professional. Some time ago Watchdog2020 posted the drawings for his. I have made three recently and will deploy them shortly. They are somewhat larger, the inner container is a 2 1/2 inch plastic pipe and the rotating dials are 4" ABS. Since I don't have them on a website I can't post the pictures here but if anyone wants them email me and I sill send them.
Email me the pics and I will post them for you Walts. I would love to see them and I'm pretty sure other members who are building cryptex's would like to see other people's successes.
Send them to me here...soxter-n-billini@shaw.ca... in whatever format and size you have and I will modify and post for you. Thanks for sharing.
Soxter
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Are the 8-32 x 3/8" machine screws a common item? I couldn't find any at HD or at Lowe's, in either stainless steel or brass. Smallest 8-32 screws they had were 1/2". I assume you'd want to avoid the zinc coated ones?
They did have 6-32 x 3/8" screws and I bought some to try, but I've already drilled the holes and I'm thinking they will be too small.
Hey Mom-n-Andy,
The 3/8 length is important and is common enough at fastener suppliers. Maybe not at the big box stores. Look for fastener suppliers in your area.
Hear is on online supplier that my company uses that has an amazing delivery service. Usually next day and we're in a different country.
This is the Stainless Steel Machine Screw link if you want to order online.
This is the Stainless Steel Machine Nut link if you order online.
Both come in small boxes with 100 in a box @ $5.00 each box approx.
Stay away from zinc coated. They won't take the elments like stainless.
Cheers
Soxter
Holy cow, who knew there were so many kinds of machine screws and nuts! Did you use the standard 1/8" height nuts or one of the "undersized" nuts? It looks like the slotted tube is just a touch less than 1/8" thickness, so I'm thinking one of the undersized ones might be better.
How is your build going Mom n Andy? Any good pic's or an update?
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Cache pages can use HTML if you check the HTML checkbox. Otherwise they use plain text. Cache logs, on the other hand, can use BBCode, but not HTML. Does that answer your question?
Ya I see what I was doing wrong. I will play with it some more...Thanks
Be nice if we could just use HTML on everything but I'm sure there is a reason.
Cheers
Soxter
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what exactly do you mean with "waypoint pages"? are you talking about the description field for the additional waypoints?
Waypoint pages on Multi Cache pages when placing a new cache
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Posted last week on Website forum and not one response. Hoping someone in hear might havesome idea.
Will html or ubb code work on waypoint pages? I was playing around with this a bit and tried both but couldn't get it to work. Couldn't put up picks or links or anything for that matter. Does anyone know how or what the reason for this is. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Let me know or point me in the right direction please.
Thanks
Soxter
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I was playing around with this a bit and tried both but couldn't get it to work. Couldn't put up picks or links or anything for that matter. Does anyone know how or what the reason for this is. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Let me know or point me in the right direction please.
Thanks
Soxter
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Are the 8-32 x 3/8" machine screws a common item? I couldn't find any at HD or at Lowe's, in either stainless steel or brass. Smallest 8-32 screws they had were 1/2". I assume you'd want to avoid the zinc coated ones?
They did have 6-32 x 3/8" screws and I bought some to try, but I've already drilled the holes and I'm thinking they will be too small.
Hey Mom-n-Andy,
The 3/8 length is important and is common enough at fastener suppliers. Maybe not at the big box stores. Look for fastener suppliers in your area.
Hear is on online supplier that my company uses that has an amazing delivery service. Usually next day and we're in a different country.
This is the Stainless Steel Machine Screw link if you want to order online.
This is the Stainless Steel Machine Nut link if you order online.
Both come in small boxes with 100 in a box @ $5.00 each box approx.
Stay away from zinc coated. They won't take the elments like stainless.
Cheers
Soxter
Holy cow, who knew there were so many kinds of machine screws and nuts! Did you use the standard 1/8" height nuts or one of the "undersized" nuts? It looks like the slotted tube is just a touch less than 1/8" thickness, so I'm thinking one of the undersized ones might be better.
You could use either and I would recommend whichever is available. My base tube is about .14" thich and I used the 1/8 nuts, which are a bit thinner,but either will work.
Remember when you tighten them down they will bite into the surface of the PVC a bit...
Cheers
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Are the 8-32 x 3/8" machine screws a common item? I couldn't find any at HD or at Lowe's, in either stainless steel or brass. Smallest 8-32 screws they had were 1/2". I assume you'd want to avoid the zinc coated ones?
They did have 6-32 x 3/8" screws and I bought some to try, but I've already drilled the holes and I'm thinking they will be too small.
Hey Mom-n-Andy,
The 3/8 length is important and is common enough at fastener suppliers. Maybe not at the big box stores. Look for fastener suppliers in your area.
Hear is on online supplier that my company uses that has an amazing delivery service. Usually next day and we're in a different country.
This is the Stainless Steel Machine Screw link if you want to order online.
This is the Stainless Steel Machine Nut link if you order online.
Both come in small boxes with 100 in a box @ $5.00 each box approx.
Stay away from zinc coated. They won't take the elments like stainless.
Cheers
Soxter
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Actually, I don't think you'd need to worry about fake notches. At least with the cryptex I built, even if you get one letter right it's not going to open any further than it would with no letters. The multiple locking posts on the inner container stop any movement. Also, there's no obvious click or feel to get if you get a letter right since the locking posts rest under the stationary rings.
Well, not that I'm that fired up about it (like I said, this is more fun to work the right way over cheating), but I think you're not understanding how it happens.
Unless all locking pins and locking rings are dead perfect (and I mean *perfect* perfect), one of the pins will contact a ring before all the rest. No telling which one, it could be the first, the third, or any. To 'pick' a lock like this, you have to bring pressure to the pins by pulling the ends apart, so the first pin to hit a ring does so. Now you turn each of the rings in turn, until you find one that 'clicks', or binds most of it's turn but is free for a small amount at a certain letter. If there's enough difference in pin/splitring play, you may feel the ends move a bit even. You've solved that one ring, whichever it is. Repeat for all rings- you'll find that you solve them in a random order, which is dependent on how the pins and rings are located. With the 'notches' in the rings, this isn't possible any longer because you haven't got any way of knowing if the spot the pin fell in is the real split or a decoy notch.
Again, don't mean to bring anyone down- this is major cool, and looks like something I'll give a try someday. If anything, throwing the decoy notches in is just one more fun part in it.
Oh, I understand completely how one could do it, especially if there are small errors in drilling, the posts, etc.
I suppose my position comes down to (at least in my case) being very anal retentive about measuring and making sure each post is exactly the same distance apart and all the rings are the same size. I tested such a situation on my own cryptex that I made before these plans came out and you could not advance the part that you remove at all, no matter which ring you tried.
Either way, I used my cryptex in this cache (GC24FZ3) and I tried to make it patently clear what the word you needed to unlock the cryptex was. So far, it's been received well.
I gave a whirl last night on my PVC cryptex and couldn't feel the notches even knowing the compination. I think the plastic gives it a bit more flex and makes it harder find.
The other thing I did was make my Cryptex Cache a type of puzzle multi so you can't even get the location of the cryptex until you visit all 4 stages first. Each stage has the card the cacher collects and all the card builds your location and cryptex solution. If you have the cards you have the solution.
This is Stage 1 (Note: not all stages have been posted yet)
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Thanks for the tip. I tried using Scotch-brite and it worked well enough. So I’ll leave it at that for the time being before going back to Home De-pot.
BTW, I was able to complete the 3/8” slot using a router and a wooden fixture to hold it securely. On my first try I started too fast and cracked the tube. Slow and steady works nicely. Next, the tumblers.
Hi Guys,
Something else I did when I was building my geocache cryptex was to bevel the outside edges of each combination rings. I did this because after I put it togeather with straight cut rings I found when I spun the rings they had a bit of an offset and crooked feeling because you could easily feel the edges of two rings.
We keep the rings a little loose on the base tube so they spin freely and its this subtle loosness that is easy to feel at the edges of the combination rings. This is why a bevel them. With this cut back edge it is visually appealing and feels good in the hands.
I have included a detail to show what I'm talking about. The main drawings don't show this modification but I will update later...
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Soxter, did you paint the parts separately or did you assemble the cryptex and then paint the whole thing?
I did paint the combination rings flat black on the sides and inside because you can see down the crack between the rings and the PVC parts I was using are white. A little flat black makes all the cracks and crevices look clean.
I also painted my machine screws black originally when I painted the ket tube and then didn't like the look so I changed them with new ones that were shiny and stainless.
Other than that I painted the final cryptex the green colour you see in the picture and put a satin clear coat over the works when it was done.
You may need to spin combination rings a bit after paint and blow out any paint dust to keep thing moving freely.
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I’ve started working on this project also; a nice set of plans and a nice winter project. Thank you.
The coefficient of thermal expansion for PVC is approximately 2.8 x 10^-5 in/in-°F. Therefore a 10” long piece of PVC tubing will expand 0.0028” for every 10°F rise in temperature. However, if all of the parts are made of the same material and allowed to reach thermal equilibrium, there shouldn’t be a binding problem as all parts expand and contract uniformly. Dirt and grit may cause a bigger problem due to the soft nature of PVC.
I used a wood lathe to turn down the ¾” dia. key tube to fit the 1” dia. tube. I put slip caps on the ends to hold the tube and provide pivot points. Standard wood turning tools worked just fine. After sanding I still have a rough surface that attracts dirt. How do you finish a sanded surface? Any tips?
Now on to the 3/8” slot.
Hi Capt. Bob
I am hoping that fellow cachers try to keep the Cryptex off the ground and realise that this object might be a little more fragile than typical dollar store items commonly found in many caches. If it does get some grit in it hopefully the size is small enough to blow out with an airline.
I painted all my exposed surfaces and if you allow a litle more tollerance you could paint and clear coat a protective layer.
My key tube sizing was the same as yours and I had to remove guite a bit outside surface to have a good fit inside the base tube. I'm sure you know this but I wouldn't paint anything until it is 100% complete.
I thought that I had removed enough material on the key tube and had it sliding inside the base tube easily enough and then when I added the bolts to the key tube and tightened them they actually deformed the key tube enough that the sides rubbed a bit and caused friction. So make sure you allow enough for that.
Cheers
Soxter
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I've been able to remove enough material from the 3/4" PVC using a palm sander with dust attachment and a lot of elbow grease. I placed it in a bench vise and continually rotated it until enough material was removed for it to slip easily inside the 1" PVC. I finished up with an extra fine sanding sponge.
I'm getting good cuts using a manual miter saw. It is a pretty good one that I've used for cutting crown and other molding.
I think I have a handle on cutting the slot. I marked the slot and am drilling 3/8" holes down the length. I plan to nibble the remaining material using fine tipped sheet metal snips and will smooth the edge using a file and'or sandpaper. I will report how well this works.
My goal is to see what I can do with the tools I have on hand. I am sure the result won't be as professional looking as Soxter's, but my husband would have a cow if I bought another power tool! He still thinks the nail gun I bought for installing crown molding was an extravagance.
One question: Why is the 8th split ring a different width than the other 7? I can't quite tell based on the drawings.
Hi Mom-n-Andy,
If you look at Drawing 8 of 9 Split & Keeper Ring, the lower right drawing shows what I have called the keeper ring.The keeper ring is used to hold all the combination rings in place on the base tube and provide a line-up notch to insert the inner key.
You will notice that the keeper ring has a smaller edge to it that must slide inside the last combination ring. This small edge is there to give my keeper ring a bit of meat to glue on the base tube. What I have done then to keep the cryptex visually symetric is allow for the small edge inside on the last combination ring.
I have included a detail that I hope explains
Cheers
Soxter
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Very very nice, thank you! If I lived a little closer I'd offer you a few beverages of your choice.
I do have one question though, because I'm a metal / wood guy here, and have zero experience with PVC.
How stable is PVC to thermal expansion/contraction? With the (nominal) OD dimensions of #10 and ID of #9 leaving 0.003" clearance, will there be a temperature outside the shop build environment when the rings become to tight to turn?
You don't want .003 clearance with PVC. A build with .010 would be more realistic.
PVC has a tendence to bind really easy.
P.S. I've been working with non-plumbing PVC for the last 15 or so years.
Thanks for the input bittsen
When I assemble the cryptex and install the combination rings on the base tube for the last time I use a small amount of molybdenum grease, which is for plastic gears and can be picked up at hobby shops, on the base tube.
It worked for me and my rings spin freely
Cheers
Soxter
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Very very nice, thank you! If I lived a little closer I'd offer you a few beverages of your choice.
I do have one question though, because I'm a metal / wood guy here, and have zero experience with PVC.
How stable is PVC to thermal expansion/contraction? With the (nominal) OD dimensions of #10 and ID of #9 leaving 0.003" clearance, will there be a temperature outside the shop build environment when the rings become to tight to turn?
Hey SkipHer!
I think if we ever meet up I'll take you up on the offer.
The sizes I'm showing in my drawings are just what I was able to measure as an average from the pieces I purchased. They did vary considerably +/- 0.008. from what I remember. PVC plumbing is a bit irregular and that 3 thousand difference is just average if anything. I would definately remove, by sanding, the inside diameter until it has a bit of a sloppy fit.
Quite technical question to throw at me after an evening cocktail but you had me searching the net right away. The Linear Temperature Expansion Coefficient for PVC is 28 @10 power -6 per inch. Did a bit more research and math......I calculate that out to be an expansion of .0028" with a temperature change from 0 deg F to 100 deg F but I could be full of #$%^. I'm just a sheet metal worker.
Make sure the inner ring can spin freely before assembly and it shouldn't expand mor that 5 thousand inch.
Cheers
Soxter
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As a wood craftsmen in my spare time (where exact doesn't exist compared to a machinist's version of exact), and as someone who enjoys making up plans before a project, I am really impressed by your creativity and dedication to detail in your plans as well as your build.
I think I will recognize my own limitations here and wait for the kit you mentioned to come out!
Great job, and thanks for sharing.
Hi Dirk,
If you can read a tape measure or ruler and have some basic hand skills you should be able to build one of these PVC Cryptex's. Most of the sizing has been done by the manufacturer of the plumbing parts.All we do is a little cutting, a little glueing and alot of sanding.
I'm still thinking about the kits. Not sure if there is enough interest yet or if I want to make the commitment.
Cheers
Danny
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Very nice. Any chance of there being somewhere this can be downloaded in a PDF format? Or maybe the next time I go to visit my siter in Aldergrove I can come see yours. What cache is it part of.
Hey Walts,
My first of five caches came out this weekend that are related to the Cryptex. It is the only one visible for now and the rest will be over the next week or so.
Check them out if your in the area but solve the easy puzzles first...Maple Ridge Cryptex Caper (Stage 1)
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Hi Bullygoat29,
Let me start by thanking you for giving my drawings a good review. It always helps if someone can give your work a good looking over. My original cryptex design used 1-1/2 and 1-1/4 couplers but when I started building mine I switched the sizes smaller to conserve space.
You picked up on that typo and I appreciate it. I have made the changes to the forum drawings. I did use 1-1/4" and 1" couplers for my build. The dimensions represented the correct size but I used the wrong wording in the material list and the wording on the combination ring drawing. Both have been changed and I hope it didn't cause too much confusion. Thanks again.
I started a detail earlier for you but had to put things on hold for the Hockey Game so I will post it anyways as an addition to my drawings. I can generate details from the main 3D model if anyone needs extra info. Drop me a note here and give me a few hours and I will try to get some info online for you.
Cheers Soxter
Thanks for the picture of the nut configuration. I realized after I had wrote about the clearance that they were not in the way and was able to finish it last night. I just have to prep the pipes for painting and I will post up pictures when I'm done.
As a side note. I picked up a 9" band saw from Lowes for $114. It works perfect for jobs like this.
Excellent Bullygoat!
I look forward to seeing some projects that people have created. Could you do me a favour and post a pic here on this link so other members can see your work It might help them decide if they are thinking about building one.
Cheers
Soxter
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Your question is a little vague...What are you referring to as the outer pipe? Just reference parts on my material list and so I can help answer your questions. If you find plumbing parts, locally, that works for you, than go for it. My drawings can be used as reference only to understand the mechanisms layout.
Parts 8 and 9. I ended up buying 1" and 1 1/4" slip couplings. Buying the sizes you listed gives an 1/8" gap all the way around when the rings are placed on the outer tube.
Edit: I had an epiphany and realized I was overthinking a part of the build.
Hi Bullygoat29,
Let me start by thanking you for giving my drawings a good review. It always helps if someone can give your work a good looking over. My original cryptex design used 1-1/2 and 1-1/4 couplers but when I started building mine I switched the sizes smaller to conserve space.
You picked up on that typo and I appreciate it. I have made the changes to the forum drawings. I did use 1-1/4” and 1” couplers for my build. The dimensions represented the correct size but I used the wrong wording in the material list and the wording on the combination ring drawing. Both have been changed and I hope it didn’t cause too much confusion. Thanks again.
I started a detail earlier for you but had to put things on hold for the Hockey Game so I will post it anyways as an addition to my drawings. I can generate details from the main 3D model if anyone needs extra info. Drop me a note here and give me a few hours and I will try to get some info online for you.
Cheers Soxter
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If you’re a serious hobbyist and like making all kinds of things, an economical lathe mill combo like this could will have you spending too much time machining and not enough time geocaching...
$1120 (on sale!) + stand + accessories for one or two cryptexes seems a bit much!
I do have a dremel and will experiment with that. The good thing is that PVC is cheap so one can afford to make a lot of mistakes.I agree and don't think anyone needs to spend that kind of money. If you have a dremel check out the accessories available for grinding and cutting. Not sure if you have a electric mitre saw but a new one can be had in many places for $100.
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Buying parts today I found the the 1 1/4" slip couplings are way to sloppy on the 1" outer pipe. I ended up returning the 1 1/2" for 1" to get a better fit on the outer pipe. What are your thoughts on this?
Your question is a little vague...What are you referring to as the outer pipe? Just reference parts on my material list and so I can help answer your questions. If you find plumbing parts, locally, that works for you, than go for it. My drawings can be used as reference only to understand the mechanisms layout.
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Questions -
How do you get the cuts so nice and square in the PVC? I've used both a PVC tubing cutter and a miter box saw on PVC pipe for dog agility equipment but have trouble getting the cuts as accurate and clean as yours.
How did you cut the slot shown on drawing 6 of 9?
What length are the stainless steel machine screws?
What method did you use to remove material from areas of the PVC?
If you do make kits, I would be especially interested in a kit of the "hard to make" parts, i.e. the parts that require precision cutting.
Hi Mom-n-Andy
When I built my Cryptex I used a lathe and milling machine for most of my parts. I can appreciate that most members don't want to spend that kind of money on tooling so I can make suggestions on how to prepare parts for their builds.
The home hobbyist should become familiar with a Dremel Tool. It has many uses and gives the operator fine control over what they working on. There are many styles and options available. Check your local hardware supplier for different model and accessories available.
To answer the second part of your first question, I agree with GeoTrailGuy that an electric mitre saw would cut the parts quite true and square. Hand held mitre boxes allow for too much slop in blade movement. When you cut smaller couplers in a mitre saw I would slide them over longer lengths of schedule pipe. The stopper at the center of the coupler can be ground down easily again with a Dremel tool.
The slot I cut in the base tube in drawing 6 of 9 was done with my milling machine but I could have easily done it by laying out the slot pattern, drilling a hole at each end of the slot, and then use a Dremel with a cutting disk to cut the straight lines between the holes.
In drawing 4 of 9 I identified the machine screws as being 8-32 x 3/8 but I forgot to do this on the material list. Thanks for the heads up! I have already made the changes and updated the forum info.
There are a variety of burrs and grinding disks that can be used to remove PVC from parts that fit into Dremel tools. If you’re a serious hobbyist and like making all kinds of things, an economical lathe mill combo like this could will have you spending too much time machining and not enough time geocaching...
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This is AWESOME!!!!
Hmm, any chance of making one w/o the letters affixed yet and selling one to somebody who is tool illiterate? Of couse I would pay for time and materials!!
Thanks Weasel I will think about it. I might put some kits togeather that all you have to do is glue it up and paint to your liking. I will let you know....
HawkLawless1, ChileHead, 9Key, Casting Crowns, Mom-n-Andy... Thanks for the kind words.
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Amazing! If you've no objections, I'm going to try using your plans to build a 6 stage version.
None what so ever. I hope these drwings inspire more builds. I thinks once people can grasp the design concept and sequence of the build that possibilities become limited to your imagination.
Cool!
You must be a mechanical engineer/designer.
I'm a journeyman sheet metal worker by trade and an amature machinist. My work has me designing in AutoCAD 3D most days so I'm gald I could give back to the community.
Very nice. Any chance of there being somewhere this can be downloaded in a PDF format? Or maybe the next time I go to visit my siter in Aldergrove I can come see yours. What cache is it part of.
Thanks SubyJeff for answering the first part of this question and to answer the second part, my cache hasn't been posted yet but hoping for next weekend. It will be around my home town of Maple Ridgeand I think everything seeems to be ready.
Thanks to everyone else for all your kind words.
Soxter
I do have a dremel and will experiment with that. The good thing is that PVC is cheap so one can afford to make a lot of mistakes.
Cryptex Drawings for Geocaching Community
in General geocaching topics
Posted
Hey Rambler!
I've already started something along those lines. Thinking about having fake rocks as the tumblers stacked vertically that have to be rotated to the proper combination and that allows the cacher to remove the top rock and pull out the tube.
I need to find a rock wall
The other type I was thinking about was to hollow out a log and build a PVC one on the inside. The combination is solved by rotating sections of bark to solve. Possibly epoxying the wood to seal it and prevent rott.
That type could blend in well in the woods...
Anyone other ideas for clever PVC cryptex's????