Frolickin

In addition to keys there is a USB flash memory storage keychain attached. Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

The last find of the day, Misery in Lebanon, was Mopar's 200th find. Congratulations! It was an enjoyable day and I was happy to be there when he found this momentous cache. Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat:And ya don't have to get gas smell on your hands when filling up. It looks as though we may be the only state left with this privelege as there is a bill in the Oregon legislature to remove the restrictions on self-serve. Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat:I thought Welches grape juice originated in Westfield NY. Yeah, but Dr. Welch lived in Vineland. Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

Brian, You list all that and don't mention Springsteen and Debbie Harry? There's also: Cape May Washington's Crossing Princeton Wildwood (to some, not me) Welch's grape juice the world's largest blown glass the world's first recycled bridge (at least that is what the cache indicates ) Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

Congrats! Disney during Easter break? You are brave! Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

At least we know how to go caching. What did you folks do yesterday? Met at 10 and were finished during daylight? What the heck is up with that? Sheesh . . . you would think you would meet at 6:30 and go to at least sunset. Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

Congratulations, Harrald! Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by NJ Admin:Can I vote too? Hmmmmmmmmm........ Hmmm . . . registered a week ago, has 11 posts, but only the above one is returned in searches. Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by worldtraveler:A nonsmoker who dies in their 70's or 80's has generally contributed 40-50 years of healthy productivity beforehand and, therefore, greatly offset the cost of their health care in their later years. A smoker who croaks in their 50's or 60's has generally already cost a great deal to the health care system. They probably haven't retired yet, and their last few years have probably been completely unproductive due to hospital stays. Not only that but those non-smokers who have retired are spending money keeping the economy going. That is something that dead smokers cannot do too long after they die (although, bills keep coming in for some time). And now that first-time parents are older than they have been in the past, it is more likely that a 50-some-year old smoker who dies would have children at home who need to be cared for. Thus, smoking and dying early could be a drain on public assistance. Having said all that, I was a tobacco (dipped) user for 20 years. It is going on two years now without a dip. I am healthier, but of course, this has nothing to do with the conversation . . . Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

NJadmin archived a cache I had sent a note about the other day. Right quickly too. Admins have their heads up the buttocks of GC.com, if I read that other thread correctly. With that, I'd vote for Mopar! Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by carleenp:Anyway, you say you have resistance to forming a group. If that means some don't want to join, that should be ok. If it means some don't want to join and don't want others to form a group, then I'm curious about why they are against that. I seem to be the source of resistance. Nice to meet you. I am not against anyone from joining any group. Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by Bayberry:Fro -- "seeking clarification" isn't the way your comentary to date would be described by anyone reading here. I have not engaged in ad hominem arguments. I respectfully ask you to do the same. 1. From what has been stated in the Northeast forum and what little else has been added through two event pages and the NJGA web site, I do not know what the purpose of NJGA is. 2. Based on these same sources, I have not understood what a social geocaching group would do . 2a. Perhaps I would join such a group if I knew what it was it did. It is easy to dismiss me on this issue, but perhaps there are others who might join if they knew what the purpose of such a group was. 3. If you would like to explain to me either 1 or 2 above, that is fine. 4. If you do not, then let's just agree to disagree. 4. I am sorry that you have taken offense to what I have written. I assure you that my intentions are not personal. We do not know each other and perhaps if we did, you would understand the spirit for which I write. Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by Bayberry:You've obviously got a problem with being "represented", and evidently you're pissed about some incident that doesn't involve NJGA at all. Let's refrain from ad himinem argument. No, I am not pissed about anything involving NJGA. Other than you and themagician, who both seem like fine folks, I wouldn't be able to tell you one person in NJGA. I imagine it is mostly the cachers who attended the event on 23 March. All the ones I met seemed like nice people too. I am getting together with some in a few days. quote:Since the "representation" issue has been dropped (you can see from the poll that no one seems to want it), I don't see the reasons behind your impassioned objections to the existence of NJGA. I have no impassioned objections to NJGA. But I like the phrase. Perhaps you can educate me on what NJGA does. It is sponsoring an event at Belleplain on 3 May. What will it be doing at/for that event? Also, whatever the answer to those questions, why does it take a group to do them? Would it have been enough to list an event, discuss in the fora what would occur, post to the event page, and have the event take place? I do not see your impassioned desire for a group when the same things can be accomplished right here. quote:Yes, it's poor business management -- but this isn't business. It's more than poor business management, it's poor planning. As I explained in a discussion with someone last evening, perhaps I have been poor in making my point. I am not against a group. I can see merit in a group. I have yet, however, to hear any compelling reason for a group. I believe this kind of discussion is needed before anything should be done. You, I, we, they, whoever, should walk away from this kind of discussion with a plan of action. Look at my questions as an opportunity to focus the work/mission/scope/whatever of the group. Wouldn't it help a group to know what it is doing and be able to relate it to the public? I guess I am seeking clarification of what a group (NJGA or otherwise) would do. Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by Rygel:It appears you have an issue with the NJGA that was formed several weeks ago. I wouldn't say I have a problem with the group. The issue for me is what needs drive forming any group, NJGA or otherwise? I've yet to hear a compelling argument. quote:What we are trying to do here is initate discussion on what a group would be, what people want to see in a group. If a group is formed and you don't want to be a part of it that's your choice. Two purposes have been postulated: 1. social and 2. liaison with land managers. 1. No one has explained how a group better serves the social aspect than an event does. If this group that you are discussing is to serve the social aspects of geocaching, what can it offer that an event does not? For instance, there is an upcoming event in Belleplain. Before NJGA was named, I agreed to place some caches for the event. Somehow this event has turned into an NJGA event. How has that improved the event? How has it changed what will occur? If it has done nothing, then why have the group? 2. No one has explained how a group would act as a liaison with land managers. You stated quote:If a group is formed it will speak for the people in the group. Yet, if the group negotiates with land managers, you are speaking for a wider audience than your group members. If the group consists of such a small segment of the population it purports to represent (NJ geocachers), then is it really fair to act on behalf of those who do not belong? This thread does not seem to support the idea that NJ cachers want a group to act in this manner. One way to silence that is to populate any group with a majority of NJ cachers. To do so, much reaching beyond this forum would need to be done. {mild rant}Regarding If a group is formed and you don't want to be a part of it that's your choice. In another thread in a different forum a month or two ago, I was told much the same thing. The idea was that if I did not like the way GC.com applied rules/guidelines/etc. I should go to another site, form my own, leave, etc. Had I done that, then perhaps a NJ group would have been created to speak for the NJ geocaching community without any input from me. You see, if a group is going to represent people, it needs to be in touch with those people. Caches cannot be placed too near each other because it would spoil the game . . . unless it is near those that we tell to leave here if they do not like it. If it is next to a N@vicache cache, it does not matter. It doesn't spoil the game, or so it is said. If I do not like how a group is going, I do not have to be part of it. Of course, the group will still speak about my issues.[/mild rant] For me, I would rather speak now, in the formative stages of the discussion, to help direct the issue. Should I not, and something be developed that is counter to what I believe is correct, I have no one to blame but myself. I have an interest in this. It is worthwhile discussion. I assume you agree. Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by Rygel:What are the reasons other states have started groups? I'll bet its not all because they had to deal with law enforcement. I'll bet some got together so they could organize better events. I do not know. I have been involved in a major needs assessment at work this year. The above sentiment has surfaced on a number of occassions. Many have pointed to other places who have instituted this or that, thought it was a good thing to do, and wanted us to follow suit. Yet, that is not how progress is made. During a needs assessment, needs are highlighted. Then plans are instituted to address those needs. After the plan has been implemented, one assesses again to determine if the action was successful. One also continues to complete needs assessments as needs change over time. I do not think forming a group because Michigan, Georgia, and Maryland have all formed their own groups. Perhaps there is a compelling reason for a group in NJ. I've yet to hear it, however. Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by Bayberry: 1. Any group in its infancy looks -- IS -- disorganized. That's a given. Not necessarily. But even so, groups begin with a purpose. Thus far, I see none for this group. quote:2. Sooner or later, someone will speak on behalf of the geocachers of NJ, whether or not anyone likes it. Any tiny group / cult / movement is judged by the actions and words of it's members. This tiny group, so far, has 23 members. Do you propose that those 23 members speak for all NJ geocachers? I hope not. There were lots of prominent NJ cachers who were not in attendance. There are others who do not participate in these fora. There are others still who have chosen not to join. Is it fair that a tiny group of cachers speak for the larger population under these circumstances? quote:Fro -- you were at the 1st meeting. Do you consider yourself a member of NJGA? I do not think I was at the first meeting. I attended an event. What passed for a meeting, I believe, was over before I arrived. I was caching prior to arriving there and I cached when I got there. I voted on nothing, discussed no group business, signed my name to nothing, etc. The NJGA site states it has 23 members. I am not one of the 23. quote:I consider myself a member. As such, I'm calling a meeting in the forums. I'll start another topic and we can start asking members what they -- scratch that -- asking what __we__ want NJGA to be. I suppose this is the crux of my issue . . . how can a group be created then decide what it is to do? Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by Rygel:If there is going to be a group for any reason there needs to be some organization to it. There also needs to be a reason for a group. As it stands, there appears to be no reason for a NJ geocaching group. If it is socialization, then events more than satisfy that need. If it is to "officially represent" the game to others, I ask, where is the need? To create a group for the mere enjoyment of having a group seems purposeless to me. I continue to speak on this because whatever group is formed will become the de facto group for the state. If it then decides later it will cease being a socialization-only group and will then spread out to represent geocaching for the masses, the group will have siezed upon that authority without support from those it will affect. quote:I don't understand the resistance to the idea. Which idea? A group? It's not so much resistance as need. For what purpose does a group serve? How will a group serve its members any better than an event? I spend a lot of my business life working in groups, serving on committees, etc. What is painfully evident is that without a clear plan, no group or task should ever be initiated. I am not against a group that has a clear need to fulfill. I have yet to see what need a NJ geocaching group would satisfy. Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by HartClimbs:If you think back, Spanky and the gang were able to form an official 'He-Man Woman-haters club' without a mandate. Alfalfa wasn't happy since he wanted to date Darla, but still joined the club. And Al Bundy formed National Organization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood (NOMAAM) . . . but how official were those groups? Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by Bayberry:I seem to recall that one of the suggested aims was to be an "official" presence should there ever be a need (to negotiate and /or communicate with State Park officials, etc.) Groups do not become official just by claiming to be. There actually has to be a mandate to become official. In this case, I certainly see no mandate. The discussion in this forum about the purpose of any group was mainly for socialization. If you scroll up, you can see that. No one has convinced me that a NJ geocaching group is needed to deal with land managers. NJGA, as I understand it, was not created to do that. quote:So the number or percentage of NJ cachers who belong would make no difference at all. Would you be okay with the following? I create a group called the Official NJ Geocachers Group (ONJGG) and declare that this group represents geocaching in the state of NJ and will head all discussions with land managers. In addition, ONJGG meets at High Point State Park for its first meeting then for its second meeting it meets in Woodcliff Lake. At the second meeting is where the officers will be voted for life terms (why life terms? Why not? There's no charter, no mission, no nothing but my words.). I contend that a social group for geocaching does not need to be so formal. quote:I don't understand why people who don't want to be part of a group are even discussing it. Is there some feeling that NJGA would somehow step on anyone's toes? I don't see how it would, but maybe you see something that I don't...? I think perhaps NJGA has the ability to step on toes, but I am not certain that has actually occurred. As for why discuss it . . . You (and others undoubtedly) think this group to be an "official" presence should there ever be a need (to negotiate and /or communicate with State Park officials, etc.. If ever we were in that situation, this group would be representing me, whether I am a member or not. I have a stake in what is happening around me. I do not want to pay dues to voice my opinion. I do not want to carry a membership card to voice my opinion. Yet, I wish my opinion to be heard. All the best, Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

I do not use a spreadsheet, although CacheMaps looks nice. I built a database for my geocaching experience. In a thread long ago someone caught my attention by pointing out that unless we keep a log of all of posted logs, in an update of this site (or worse, should the site suddenly disappear) one's geocaching history could easily be lost. I decided then to build a database. I track all the caches and cachers I come into contact with. I track hitchhikers and the logs of my finds and hides. It works for me. I link photographs as well. Someday, I will mount it to a web server so it can be queried via the web. Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by Rygel:It appears that some do want and organization. Its your choice not to participating. True, but then will the NJ organization truly represent the NJ geocaching community if its membership is but a small percentage of that community? Anything more than socialization causes a group to have a mission. Socialization is satisfied with events. Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by Rygel:Having a logo/website doesn't stop it from being a social organization. In fact it serves that purpose. It gives us a way to present the NJ geocaching community to visitors or to recruit new New Jerseyans to geocaching. How will a logo and web site recruit new New Jerseyans to geocaching? Even though the game has expanded greatly over the last two years, most folks will need an introduction to geocaching. I think GC.com does a good job at that. I do not see what a NJ group could do that would be any different from GC.com and these fora. I am not trying to be difficult, I just do not see a state of disorganization, therefore, see no need for an organization. As the weather warms, more events will be happening. Events allow the socialization that most seem to seek from an organization. What is gleaned from formalizing it more than that? Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

quote:Originally posted by Mopar:Fair enough, but if it is going to be oriented to one certain region of the state, with events in that area, with officers elected from that area (going by Magician's log on the Cape May event, he's looking to elect officers during that event) This gets back to the discussion that was had prior to the get-together. There has been no need established for an organized group. It seemed to be everyone's idea that this was a social group. Someone mentioned a country breakfast on a regular basis. I have no need for an officer-driven, dues-collecting, membership-carrying card organization for geocaching. It sounds like that is where this all leads to. It sounds like we have gone beyond the get-together idea to designing logos and organizing. I'll be out caching while the dues are collected. I was out caching while the membership was taken in Roebling/Bordentown. Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

It all depends on what the purpose of the group is. I was under the impression this group was to be a social group that would have a get-together or two. An organized group to do more than that is something else altogether. If it comes to that, there needs to be a lot of planning and decision making. What is the reason for needing a geocaching association in NJ? Fro. ________________________________________ Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose