CheshireFrog

That's my experience as well. Truth be told, two miles through moderate foliage is as much as I've ever needed anyway.

What he said.

No, these do not communicate via satellite. FRS/GMRS is terrestrial radio, basically a license-free walkie talkie. The range varies, but 4-5 miles through open air is pretty good, add hills, trees and rocks and it degrades. I have a pair that claims to carry 17 miles, but my experience is they're not any good for more than I've already quoted.

I had a Trigo once. It wasn't very fast, and it never wanted to start when it was cold.

Yes, these are basically FRS/GMRS radios mated with GPSR's, with the added functionality of being able to broadcast you coordinates to a compatible receiver. You would be able to hear anyone else who is broadcasting on the same channel. In the past I had heard complaints about the range on Garmin radios, but I don't know anything about the new H series, so maybe they've addressed that.

Back when I first started we were had to walk to the cache backwards, through knee-high snow, uphill, both ways, holding our GPSr's upside down. Back then men were men, women were beautiful and children were well behaved. All caches were the size of Volkswagen Beetles and were stocked with gold and jewels, and the average FTF prize was a new house. Cachers were courteous and we all knew not only each others first names, but addresses, birthdays and shoe sizes as well. You punks have ruined everything.

So, I have this vision of how things might have progressed in a situation like this. Let me run a scenario by you and see if it sounds right. Cacher A has, in the past, logged multiple events to match the number of caches he found at said events. At some point Cacher A engages in a debate with Cacher B in the Echo Chamber Forum about the honesty of such an act, and feelings get hurt. Fast forward to an event at an unspecified future date. Cacher A attends the event and finds Cachers B, C, D and E talking and laughing together. Cacher B recognizes Cacher A as one of those people who log mutiple event caches, and the group launches into a discussion of what they think about those people loud enough to be heard and for the benefit of Cacher A. Feelings are hurt again, so naturally there must be more whining discussion in the Echo Chamber Forum. I dunno, it just seems like I've seen/read this before.

As I mentioned in a different thread, Wally World has the Explorist 500 in stock for $199. That's only $20 over what the 400 goes for, and it's color.

If money is an issue then you can go with a B/W unit, Wally World has the eTrex Legend for $117. It only has 8MB for mapping, but I can get almost all of Colorado Topo maps in that. The next step up is the Magellan Explorist 400 at $179. It accepts SD RAM cards, so storage isn't a problem, but at $179 I'd walk past that and get the Explorist 500, which is nearly identical but has a color display for only $199 (also at Wally World). The Garmin Venture CX comes in at around $225. It accepts Micro SD RAM cards, but doesn't come with one, or a sync cable, but cards are cheap, and if you have a digital camera you probably already have the cable. The Garmin Legend CX isn't worth the difference in cost over the Venture, and from there the money goes up exponentially. The Garmin Vista CX accepts memory cards and has an electronic compass and barometric altimeter, The Magellan Explorist 600 has all that and a digital thermometer. The Explorist XL has the biggest screen you've ever seen in a handheld, and the Garmin 76CX, 76CXs, 60CX and 60CXs are generally regarded as the most sensitive receivers out there. I personally think the Explorist 500 and the Venture CX represent the best values listed above. I'm not a brand snob, but given that you already have the Mapsource maps I'd go with the Venture CX.

This is fair. In fact this is exactly the right way to handle this. I don't care about the loss of a free upgrade, as this was never guaranteed, but the fact that Garmin did implement this change without ever mentioning it on their site made me edgy. This new policy went into effect May first, nearly two weeks ago, with no notice to their customers. This made me wonder if the planned rescinding of the additional unlock code was a policy change that Garmin hoped to slip in with no notice as well. I guess we'll never know if the policy stated above was the plan all along or if Garmin changed their minds in face of all the bad will this threatened to generate. In the end it doesn't matter. I believe that Garmin does need to examine how they disseminate information, both internally and to their customers. It would have avoided this whole mess. Thanks for posting this.

So you choose to believe that the loss of the second unlock code is a rumor, but the drop in price is a fact? And you don't see a problem with pulling the second unlock code retroactively from users who paid full price, while possibly offering it at a reduced price to future buyers? You're not worried because you've already used your second code. How nice for you. then this thread doesn't apply to you, does it?

Can you insert the SD RAM card into a card reader or thumbdrive adapter and transfer to it that way? I know MapSend supports this, and this was how I always loaded maps into my old MeriGold, since it was so much faster.

No, but that's not really surprising, since everything said indicates that the policy doesn't take effect until June 1. I have, however, been told twice now by Garmin representatives that I will be denied the use of my second unlock code at that time. Just so we're clear, I'm talking about the second unlock code which promised to me on the paperwork in the package when I bought the software and was mentioned on their web site. The second unlock code that was part of my decision to upgrade to CN 8 in the first place, the lack of which will now certainly effect future buying decisions. That unlock code. I'm thinking that the tactic of sitting quietly and trusting them not to do what they have already said they are going to do won't be that effective.

Very much like the Topo, but the lines on that screen indicate the depth of the channel in the river, not elevation While you're on the Map Setup - General screen press the Menu button again, then you'll se the options to show or hide installed mapping products. Note that you have to have another mapping product installed to see the option to switch to that product.

OK, I've written to Garmin twice, once to the mapping division, once to customer support, and I've called them twice, and I've gotten different answers every time. The answers range from I haven't heard anything about that" to "I know it's being discussed" to "No date has been set" to "It's a done deal". All this really tells me is that Garmin's internal communications are as bad as their external communications. Speaking for myself, I believe that the rumors are true. If not, I would think that they'd make an announcement on their home page. Maybe if we scream loud enough they'll relent, but one thing's for sure: If I lose my unused unlock code, Garmin loses a customer.

OK, I'm hoping everyone else gets the same answer. I just received the following answer from Garmin: "Thank you for contacting Garmin International. That information is NOT true. The only thing that has changed are free updates for the mapping programs as of May 1. If you wish to add a second unit to your license you are free to do so at any time." Has anybody else received an answer?

In the other thread on this subject (City Nav Unlock Question) Slainte posted: While in the Inventory Time thread he listed his units as: No car mounted units mentioned there, so I assume the rep he spoke with understood he was referring to handhelds.

I've seen on these forums where people felt that unlock codes were unfair; they felt that they should be free to install the software on as many receivers as they liked. I can see this opinion, provided the buyers limited themselves to receivers that they personally own. Of course, this wouldn't be the case in many instances, many people would buy CN and share it with all their friends, and therefore Garmin felt the need to protect their investment. I always thought that providing two unlock codes was a fair compromise. My 60CSx represents a big investment to me. I am looking to get a second receiver this summer for my wife, but I doubt I personally would ever use more than two codes anyway. But even if I never needed the second unlock code, the paperwork that came with the software and Garmin's own website made it clear that two codes were included in my purchase. I can see them limiting sales from this point forward to one unlock code; buyers can decide for themselves if the price is worth it. I can see them limiting bundled software to one unlock code. I can see them not providing a second unlock code for vehicle mounted units. What I can't see is changing the rules AFTER the purchase is made. Probably the only real edge Garmin has over Magellan, Lowrance and Delorme is the reputation for customer service they have built up, and that reputation has largely been propagated through word of mouth. I'll be honest, I have owned two Magellan GPSRs, and if Magellan has poor customer service I would never know it because I'VE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH EITHER OF THEM. Garmin has one chance here to do the right thing. Screw us over and the word will travel fast, and all the good will that their customer service has built up will be poisoned. They really need to watch their step on this issue, since the new Delorme receiver is cheaper than the routing capable receivers from Garmin, and that price includes the mapping software, and with the satellite views included, the mapping software looks to be much more versatile. Garmin could find themselves knocked off their pedestal in short order.

More detail is nice, but 1:100k is hardly useless. When you're in the mountains your ability to pick a route is limited to line-of-sight, meaning you may end up bushwhacking up an 800 foot climb without realizing that there is a streambed around the ridge that avoids the climb completely. There is a thread on here that talks about a private individual offering 1:24k maps of all of Colorado from I-25 west. It would be nice to have the additional detail, but I'm currently weighing the advantages of that over the cost.

From the thread "City Nav Unlock Questions", posted on 3 May 2007: I wrote to Garmin after reading that. It has now been 5 days with no reply. If they intend to address this they should do it soon, before word-of-mouth carries this too far.

Agreed, this does seem to be a clear violation of the terms we bought this software under. Nobody reads the End User License Agreements that come with software, but even if there is some sort of legal loophole allowing them to do this it's still a breach of faith. If they do this after the purchase then they clearly cannot be trusted to live up to any of our expectations about their products and software. I have City Nav installed on my 60CSx, and was planning on getting my wife either a 60CSx or Vista CX this year. I was saving the second unlock code for that unit, but now it looks like it will be useless. I'm considering going on the Garage Sale forum and sell my second unlock codes to some deserving cacher before I lose it. As for a new GPS for the wife, I'm looking closely at the new Delorme. They apparently try to justify this policy change by lowering the price on the software. Fat lot of good that does those of us that bought at the old price. You want to take away my second unlock code? Fine, where's my rebate check for the difference in cost? To apply this new policy retroactively is unforgaivable. This is a steaming pile of horsecrap. I've sent my thoughts on this to Garmin's customer service, I suggest you all do the same.

The total Topo US mapping to cover EVERY little segment of New Jersey is 9.55MB, with 41 map tiles. The 16 MB in an eTrex Legend will hold almost all of Colorado, but I'm using an older version of MapSend Topo, so that may no longer be true.

I think, and I could be wrong about this, that the GPS elevation option is for setting a baseline for your barometric altimeter. The reason it doesn't show on yours is because the Legend CX doesn't have an altimeter. They must use that same page for both the Legend CX and Vista CX manual.

That's because battery saver mode turns off WAAS.

I wouldn't be so sure. You might find Topo easy enough, but because of the unlock scheme in City Navigator it's not as readily available used. Most people either have two receivers and use both unlock codes, or, like me, they hold the second code in reserve against a possible future purchase. what do you mean? Like when you buy the cd it comes with 2 cd keys and can only activite each key once? Exactly.