juc_cacher

Hi, is there a way to change the default filters on the website map ? I prefer to have owned caches and my finds on the map. I can get them to show alright, but I have to do this every time I use the map. It would be helpful if the default which is not to show these, could be changed and would stick. or am I just blind and can’t find the button ?

^^^^ This. I actually like the HTML in the newsletter. Newsletters are a different medium from email notifications. HTML works for newsletters, it doesn't work for email notifications.

Hmm, a little problem at the server end, and another little gaffe that somehow got past QA. ("QA"?!?) ...and it can't be copyright by "Geocaching", that's not an entity. Groundspeak would be the entity. ...and they didn't write the log text, so how can they claim copyright on that? The comedy continues... I suspect this will get fixed before the real problem does.

My posts were not intended as a personal criticism of any individual people. They're directed at a system that values form over functionality, that insists on fixing things that aren't broken yet doesn't fix things that are and which refuses to acknowledge when it gets things wrong. If these staffers with thousands of finds and multiple hides are our voice, then the system needs to actually listen to them and to make their voice louder, so it can be heard over the clamour of the corporates and designers who come up with these misguided ideas. This is a company that has built its empire on the backs of the users of its system who are all volunteers. No-one actually has to hide caches, spend hours each week reviewing and publishing them, or going out to find them. If they feel that they have no say in the game they have built, they'll walk away and then it's game over. We, the hiders and finders are the ones who make it possible for GS to have a business in the first place. No-one begrudges the rights of GS to operate and to make money out of our work, but we don't like being taken for granted and treated like fools who don't even deserve an explanation. All we get is this corporate spin-doctor stuff about it "improving our experience" and that our "concerns will be bubbled up". There are other GPS-based games out there and even alternative caching sites for those who like to find the tupperware.

To be fair to GS, the publishing of caches (film canister or otherwise), is done by volunteer reviewers who are not GS employees, just cachers like the rest of us. The reviewers have an area that they're responsible for, which may be a state or just a part of a state, usually close to where they live.

Maybe the ones with the thousands of cache finds should be put into positions where they have the final say on changes that affect the usability of the system. It's quite obviously not the case at present. No-one who actually had to use the system and email notifications would ever have approved those changes. What I don't like is the new email notifications, they're un-useable. GS listened and improved (although didn't totally fix) the subject lines, couldn't they have gone all the way and given an opt out option for HTML (or an opt in for plain text if that's easier to code for). Presumably the data comes out of the database in plain text and is then wrapped in the HTML tags before being passed to the mail relay. It can't be too hard to just skip the wrapping part.

This.

One would hope the silence is due to ongoing internal discussions regarding how to resolve the situation. ...but then, silence from the Lilypad isn't exactly uncommon... I generally interpret silence, from anywhere, as a sign nothing is going to change. They're waiting for the complainers to run out of gas and accept the change. Not a very good strategy as it tends to leave people embittered and the next item they don't like will produce even more bile. Heck of a way to foster a sense of community. At the risk of being labeled as one of those passive-aggressive whiners, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I don't think Groundspeak really care about fostering a sense of community, or about retaining existing users. Most of the recent changes seem to have been aimed at bringing more newbies in, rather than retaining existing ones. I gave credit where due further up this thread when Moun10bike posted an update and when they changed the subject lines back, but as the thread has progressed, the silence continues and the old Groundpeak has returned. It would be interesting to know how many of the GS staff who have inputs into the system design actually get out caching and have to make use of the "features" they have inflicted upon us. Surely if those with final say on things actually had to use the system in the field to be notified, to find caches, to hide caches, to log and to deal with trackables, they'd realise where its shortcomings are.

^^^ This....please...this. Groundspeak, you listened to us about the subject line and for that you get much credit and thanks. This one more step would cap that off nicely. Surely the code to generate the older, better text-only messages must be around somewhere.

+1 +2

Credit where credit is due, that's awesome news ! Thanks for listening guys ! You've taken a big step towards restoring my faith at least.

What?!? My existence is validated? This is an outrage! Wait, wut? We're being listened too? Believe it when you see it and not before. I've been here a while, I know the score. That's not blind optimism up there. If they thought HTML was a great idea, we still may not see the end of this debate. I think HTML email is the work of mindless marketing drones who think you aren't reading their content if it isn't done with style, panache, cliches, hip phrases and pretty pictures. I screen everything in Text for all my email accounts. I have done for the past 10 years. Groundspeak is only one vector of communication I receive and I'm not about the change how I read email because someone there think HTML is teh n00 awesumz. If they'd fix up the subject lines (ie restore them to the old ones, which carried all the necessary info and no fluff) and gave people the opportunity to opt out of the HTML body, then that would be spot-on. Based on Moun10Bike's post up there ^^^^, the first is possible. We shall see. Typos...

And yet they persist in doing so....

What?!? My existence is validated? This is an outrage! Wait, wut? We're being listened too? Believe it when you see it and not before.

Text message notification doesn't appear to be an option outside the US. But then GS have never given a rats about their many non-US customers.

Please allow me to add to the chorus of displeasure with the new email format. It's not so much the HTML, although that's annoying in and of itself. The main beef is that the new subject line is so wordy that the information is lost and it's not conducive to management via filters. Please ask your users if they agree with the 'design team' who felt (based on what ?) that users would find this new email format an improvement. Haven't you guys heard "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" ? Well, the email wasn't broken.

They won't. It's hardly news and nothing has been done so far. It's not like it requires a complete rewrite of the app to add a pop-up explaining what it is you're buying. Short-termism at its best. From http://money.howstuffworks.com/customer-service2.htm Studies show that a satisfied customer will tell 2-3 people about his experience with your company. A dissatisfied consumer will share their lament with 8-10 people and some will push that number to twenty. But here's the opportunity. An unhappy customer will become a loyal consumer if you fix his complaint and do it quickly. Eighty percent (80%) of these folks will come back to you if you've treated them fairly. That percentage rises to the upper 90s if you respond immediately. What percentage of those fooled by this misleading wording will renew their mistakenly paid for membership or even bother to buy the full app, once they realise ? Not many, I bet...certainly nowhere near the 80% mentioned. PS: I am a Premium Member, with the full App and happy to have it auto-renew, so this issue doesn't and hasn't ever affected me directly, but it sure as shootin' affects the way I view Groundspeak now.

I guess we shouldn't expect a change any time soon, it's obviously a nice little earner.

Yep, the full app will do all this. Just make sure when you do upgrade, that you're buying the full app, not upgrading to Premium Membership, which does nothing to the app. Edit: As for other apps, they are out there, but can't be mentioned here.

So after that, not only do they have a 3mth Premium Membership that they probably didn't want, and probably didn't intend to buy, but they still don't actually have the app that they did want and did intend to buy. Misleading at best. No wonder they get frustrated and probably lost to the game.

It's good to have new players join the game, but they should be encouraged to follow the conventions and etiquette of "good caching". Since this app is an intro, then I reckon it's a perfect way to introduce some of the polite conventions that make the game more pleasant and rewarding for both other finders and for hiders. So educating them that "[], "TFTC", "Found it", "Found with joe_blow" or "I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. TFTC!" are not really useful logs would b great. So would teaching them how to grab/log/drop trackables properly, the fact that the cache should always be hidden properly and that you shouldn't trample vegetation. These are all things that people acquire as they cache for a while, but they can be taught quicker if the intro app provides tips and hints. As with anything, the more you put into the game, the more you get out and if people are just using the auto-generated text, I am sure that after a while, they will just get bored and drift away.

I agree. I was at the fire station yesterday evening when two young ladies showed up looking for my cache there. It was only their second cache and they were using the free intro app. I let them search for it themselves (with a couple of hot/cold hints to help out) and then chatted with them a bit after they found it. Then later on when I read their cache log it was the default "I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. TFTC!" I think an experience like actually bumping into the CO at the cache site would deserve some mention in the log, wouldn't you? But they were new so I guess they haven't got the hang of logging etiquette yet. I also noticed when I checked out their profile that they had never visited the site, so their only interaction with Geocaching so far has been through the intro app. I wish if realized that when I was talking to them, I would have tried to give them a little guidance. My bolding... That's a big part of the issue I think. There's an increasing number of phone-only cachers who have no interaction with the site and probably never read the email newsletter, so no way of picking up the etiquette. Really, the app should pop up a message box every time the default text isn't changed, suggesting that something more is desirable.

Could the app be changed to force people to actually write something in the log field ? As a CO, the auto-generated "I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. TFTC!" is as bad, or worse than just "TFTC". It's all very well to encourage hordes of new users, but could they be encouraged (if not forced) to do the right thing by the owners of the caches they find ?

I can imagine it would be a pretty heavy load to go back over the database and do retrospective awarding. I like the idea of releasing them slowly as a background process to reduce load on the system. Or doing a certain number of accounts each time if it's an account based thing. Bring 'em back I say ! (again)

As the owner of an Earthcache and an Android user for spur-of-the-moment caching, I have to agree and add my +1 to this (assuming it is extended to the Android version too ) Too many people are logging my Earthcache without emailing the answer, just a promise to send it when they get back to their PC. Of course, this seldom happens and I have to delete the log (and remember which ones have and haven't contacted me, so I delete the right logs !). A simple "Contact CO" button or menu option would be brilliant.