Captain Bird's Eye

I only recently found out about the retirement of Benchmarking as a Geocaching activity by Groundspeak, their stated rational as being that benchmarks are only found in the USA. This is entirely wrong and I wonder how much research was carried out before coming to this decision. For instance it is a fact that there are 500,000 ordnance survey benchmarks in the UK all mapped on https://interactivemaps.uk/os-benchmark-archive/#13.71/52.70769/1.5318 . The original topic is closed to further comments but I felt I had make this point.

Well it wasn't really the acceptability of what i wrote in the cache description that concerned me. I may have over stepped the mark slightly in saying (with no axe to grind) that the cache was 'on the green adjacent to the Swan Inn which was voted riverside pub of the year in 2008'. What did concern me is that the reviewer did not ask me to remove the citation but to remove the name of the business which according to the newly amended guidelines was no longer acceptable in any circumstances, a fact that was reaffirmed by Cathy Hornback from Groundspeak in response to a query I put to them on the matter. My main reason for starting this thread however was that the new guidelines did not seem to have been published as stated but have been subsequently. You may be interested in an ironic twist. I submitted two other caches for review at the same time and one of them mentioned the name of a local theme park which is nearby. It amused me slightly that this was published without comment. I now await the email from the reviewer asking me to edit it! I can see all sides of this and I certainly don't wish in any way to criticise this or any other reviewer who do a great job. I wouldn't do it. Captain Bird's Eye. (Are we allowed to mention business names on this forum?)

What gives you the impression that I dismiss the concern? Far from it! I am merely searching for the answer as to why we should be concerned as nobody had actually spelled it out. There doesn't seem to be a collective answer yet either. Being concerned that somebody might get something for nothing doesn't seem a valid enough reason.

t I've heard that the next product placement guideline will be clamping down on usernames. Only the best for the Captain's table ... The frozen food company didn't ask if they could use my name!

Well one reviewer further back in this thread said he would not publish a cache which extolled the virtues of a pub even if it didn't mention its name. The Bus Stop cacches round here do have the bus routes in their names.

Followed to it's logical conclusion, all the 'Sidetracked' caches and all the 'Bus Stop' caches would also have to be removed as they suggest that you arrive by train or bus which are all run by commercial companies.

Hang on a minute, keehotee. Get off your high horse. We are not talking about handing out free advertising here. We are talking in the context of mentioning a pub's name in a cache description. We are also not talking about not honouring the terms and condiditions we signed up to either. We are talking about a different interperatation of the guidelines from that which has hitherto been applied and different wording of the guidelines. We all accept that we are bound to do whatever Groundspeak tells us to do if we wish to continue to use its services. That is why I immediately removed the Pub name from the cache listing when I was asked to by the reviewer but that is no reason not to discuss the rationale on here which I would have thought is one of the reasons for having a forum.

Nobody really answered my question satisfactorily. Why should we be concerned about mentioning a business name? The 'slippery slope of commercialism' doesn't wash. The whole geoachaing/groundspeek operation is a commercial enterprise. Its pages are littered with advertising. It's not as though were are trying to preserve amature status or media impartiallity. Why should we be concerned about 'the slippery slop of commercialism. '? i'm not saying its desirable but I'm not sure there is any reason to be paranoid about it. Can somebody enlighten me?

Well I'm getting mixed messages here with some reviewers clearly applying a common sense interpretation and other applying the letter of the rule regardless. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the rationale here. Is the rule to prevent business owners from publishing their own caches as a form of advertising? This is what I am assuming. Surely a reviewer could spot that. Or is it to prevent a CO from indvertently giving one business and advantage over its competitors? Why might we be concerned if this was the case? Nobody has yet answered the other question. What is the point of all this if a cacher can write in a log 'I'm off off for one of the one of the Dog & Ducks excellent pies and pint of OLd Thingumyjig' or whatever else he likes, with impunity?

Well I aplaude your common sense approach, Geohatter, and would be delighted if this were the case but it has been made quite clear to me in the response I have received from Groundspeek and the reviewer who asked me to remove it, that it was no longer permissible to use a pub name in a cache description under any circumstances. CBE

Not on any cache I review. Mentioning a business when describing the location of the cache is OK as there is no agenda apart from directing cachers to the cache. If that's all you say then I'd publish. If you then went on to promote the pub then I'd ask for a re-write. It is left to us. We use common sense but in most cases people are being blatant in their violations so we have no choice but to rule against. The reorganisation of the guidelines was prompted by the fact that cachers couldn't make sense of them and have been known to argue the toss with the reviewers because their interpretation was different. Paul Geohatter Volunteer UK Reviewer & Forum Mod for geocaching.com UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

It seems now that groundspeek HAS updated the guidelines in the last couple of days so that confusion has been removed. Its all a nonsense though! Why do we have local reviewers if not to interpret the intention of the guidelines in a common sense way. It seems ok then to estole the virtues of a nearby pub, providing you don't mention its name., but its not ok to say the cache is on the green between the Red Lion and the river. How daft is that? Especially as there is no way to moderate what people write in their logs. I have a cache which is in the woods adjacent to a pub which owns the land. In my description I have acknowledged the kind permission of the landlord in allowing me to place the cache. By the way the rules are now being applied I would not be able to do that. Why can't it be left to reviewers to decide if a description is cynical blatant advert rather than applying a ridiculous rule that can be got around by anyone intent on advertising and severely hamper those who merely wan't to publish a good cache. CBE

The name of a Pub is in most cases the first line of a pub's postal address! It hardly constitutes advertising! CBE

Hi Can somebody tell me why the Cache Listing Guidelines are not the same as the guidelines listed in the Knowledge Books? I recently had a reviewer refuse to publish a cache until I had removed the name of a village pub from the cache description. He said it was part of the recent;y published new guidelines. But when I looked in the Cache Listing Guidelines they were last updated in June 2010 and I could find no such ruling. The reviewer eventually got back to me and gave me a link to a line in the knowledge books which said you should not mention the name of a commercial company in a cache description. If this is a rule why have the guidelines not been updated? My view is that taking this ruling to mean not being able to mention a pub name on a cache listing is a step too far. Village pubs are landmarks the same as churches. You pay money to bus train companies, car parks and toilets but nobody is going to suggest you can't mention these in cache listings. A pub is also an amenity which cachers would appreciate knowing about and it is ridiculous not to be able to mention its name. Was this reviewer right to ask me to remove it? Or was he being over zealous in his interpretation of the rule? What happens when an event cache is held in a pub as they usually are? Captain Bird's Eye

I guess your gain is my loss. I just printed out a page to use the map to find a cache.. as I always do. The printed page has a blank space about 4.5 x 5 inches in the upper left, another blank space about 3.5 x5 inches in the lower right and a fine postage stamp sized map at the bottom edge of page 1. ...well, it's really 2 inches square. I'l have to figure out the scale later. There is no right margin and everything beyond the middle of the 4th attribute box is gone. I know the trend is to go paperless but I'll bet lots of people still will want use a paper copy. PS can't use the "print friendly" version because there is not option on that map for satellite images... Looks like I'm done until it gets fixed. I hadn't even tried printing so you had me worried there! Did a test print and all fine except that the caches are just blank squares with no icon in them.

Having not worked all day, Maps on a Macbook Pro with OSX 10.6.2 and Safari 4.0.4 is suddenly working again. What a relief! Who cares about the cosmetic stuff others are concerned about. Having had it taken away from you for a day you are glad to get it back warts 'n' all.

I am not running Norton Antivirus. In short it works on my wife's windows machine, and my daughter's Mac with Leopard OS but not my Mac with which is totally up to date in MacOSX and Safari versions.

Yes I am having the same problem. Since yesterday's update. It must be a problem with Safari and Snow Leopard. Works fine on my daughter's Mac which has OSX 10.5.8. Firefox is ok with me too. It does not matter how or where you access maps the result is the same. Black bar with loading maps and busy symbol stays in the middle of the map and caches do not show. It has been like it all day today. The maps will respond to zooming, change to satelite view etc. but no caches and 'loading maps' stays on screen.