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Colorado Papa

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Everything posted by Colorado Papa

  1. quote:Originally posted by beatnik: Don't you think this was once a BM? -beatnik- I agree wholeheartedly that you have a good example of a destroyed BM. However, I've come across similar ones and Deb informs me that they have to be reported as in poor condition. Therefore, if you found the location exactly like the desciption but no disk, take credit that you found it in poor condition which really is more accurate than saying you never found the location. I don't see how NGS can have a poor condtion catagory for a location that is missing the disk and we have to log a "NO fIND". Until things get standardized, take a FOUND credit. And that's my opinion. 1950 Surveyor
  2. quote:While it's fun to play the numbers game, you have to always remember to keep it in perspective. A count of benchmarks found is in no way a good perspective of how interested or dedicated a hunter is. Too many extranious factors, like: How much time do you have to spend hunting? Where do you live? Some parts of the country are loaded with benchmarks. Others are not. What a good comment! How much time is spent at a local library researching old maps for old railroads and roads that no longer exist? How about looking for BMs that were wiped out by floods? I pride myself in not finding a BM. I would much rather confirm a BM was wiped out by a railroad being abandonded and all tracks and signals removed. Or a road being relocated. Or read about a flood. Unfortunately, no credit is given for NOT FINDs, but more time was spent at a library researching old documents than in the field. The numbers don't really mean a thing. The question should really be about dedication and time spent for a location. Did it require doing research to determine where the river bed once was? What were the names and locations of the roads back when? I've seen too many entries that say "Found as described" which is an easy "PLUS". See how many they find if the roads have been relocated, railroads have been abandonded, mountains have been moved. It's a different world out there. 1950 Surveyor
  3. quote:Originally posted by GeckoGeek:Is that one truly destroyed? If the pin is still there, then the location is still marked, just missing it's identification tag. It's my understanding that it's when a station's positional integrity is compromised is when it's considered destroyed. The following is from www.ngs.noaa.gov web site. Indicates to me if the disk is missing, the station is destroyed: quote:1) If you have found the actual marker separated from its setting, you can report the point as destroyed. To do so please send the report on the destroyed mark as an email to Deb Brown (Deb.Brown@noaa.gov). If you send this email, please do not submit the current form, Deb Brown will submit the report for you. In addition, please submit proof of the mark's destruction via actual disk, rubbing, photo, or digital picture (preferred) to Deb Brown: 1950 Surveyor
  4. quote:Originally posted by RogBarn: Since then, we have slowed down a little bit (but not much!). I'd be interested in how many of us are really active in looking for benchmarks. As an ancient surveyor from back in the fifties, I almost forgot about all this stuff. Thought everything was done by GPS now. Was an active cacher until recently when I "discovered" this section and started doing some library research to help locate BMs that have long been unrecovered. It send chills though my veins when I find a site where the last surveyor was there thirty of more years ago. Even if the marker is missing, I think "If only the trees and rocks could talk!" Anyhow, the bug bit me, but I do want to do a thorough job and not jump to conclusions like I did couple weeks with JK1230. I do enjoy the research of old maps and pictures. However, of the 700,000 plus, why isn't the number reduced by the ones that have been reported as destroyed? I really do believe credit should be given for ones that are reported as destroyed and have furnished proof such as JK0244. 1950 Surveyor [This message was edited by Colorado Papa on August 08, 2003 at 09:43 PM.]
  5. Thanks to the Witness Post, have now recovered the station, two reference marks and the azimuth mark. The NGS data sheet was complete and right on the money! I never would have found the azimuth mark using only the geocaching.com detail page. 1950 Surveyor
  6. quote:Originally posted by sixthings:... check out the area and see how easy it is to find the mark when you know this witness post is there to help. Tell me about it! I almost screwed up JK1230 Glen Eyrie royally when I found reference mark 2 and without looking at it closely, logged it as a find. On a return trip from the opposite direction, came accross a Witness Post in the brush without a marker in sight. Upon reading the NGS Data Sheet, got more insight about the BM and returned to the site with a shovel. Uncovered the real thing and returned later to dig out RM-1. If it hadn't been for the Witness Post, I never would have discovered my goof 1950 Surveyor
  7. That's exactly the problem, they are not leaving any indications. I came to this conclusion when several (easy to locate if they were there) missing BMs had no logs whereas nearby BMs were found and logged more than three months ago. I believe in leaving notes about a location when you do a search to help others. Check out JK1201 http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.asp?PID=jk1201 1950 Surveyor
  8. It has become obvious to me that some benchmark hunters are not logging "Not Found". Is it because they don't want to admit they didn't find the marker? If so, this is the wrong attitute. I feel that a description of their search and pictures would help the next hunters to confirm the marker is actually missing, or else was possibly in the wrong area. If they were using only the detail coordinates with a GPSr, say so! If they were following the description at different coordinates, log them. Was it a quick or detailed search? Was any research done such as at the local library of old maps? Supply the information! There is nothing wrong with logging a "NOT FOUND". 1950 Surveyor
  9. quote:Originally posted by DaveD:RogBarn I have reviewed your county changes and I agree. I have forwarded this information to our data base team for correction. Dave, Do you want error information posted here, emailed to you directly, or have us fill out a Mark Recovery Entry for obvious mistakes like the wrong county or coordinates not matching the description? 1950 Surveyor
  10. quote:Originally posted by DaveD:We are currently working on several items to enhance our data that posters to this site will be able to help with. These include integrating hand-held GPS coordinates in place of the scaled values on many BMs and digital images of the marks. What kind of time frame are we looking at? Will Geocachers get the same recognition as USPS members? 1950 Surveyor
  11. quote:Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:why not just bookmark http://www.geocaching.com/mark/ ? Got too many bookmarks already! 1950 Surveyor
  12. quote:Originally posted by GEO*Trailblazer 1:From the Point, I assume a Direction Based on True North,Observation of the North Star Polaris at Culmination,as nearly as I can determine. I am not a rocket scientist yet. This point is in a plumb line of the point and the Star. Using the laser like a sight on a weapon,to align these points.A stake is marked at a forward point 30-100'away. I assume this point as zero,and numbered in right ascention to 360 degrees. I then roughly calculate using protractor,or compass. You can also use the prism to project from a point to a point at angles. Something I saw on NASA TV working with prisms and mirrors. I can usually asuume the angles very easily. N = 0 or 360 E = 90 S = 180 W = 270 Like I said I only play around with it. If I could afford a Transit or a total station I could really be accurate.....ehhhh Sounds like a lot of extra work, especially if you don't want to get out and look for Polaris, or if it's cloudy. You can use your GPSr for an accurate location of true north from any point. Just take an east-west reading of the GPSr at your point, then move as many feet away as you want and establish the same east-west coordinate. Now my Garmin III+ does all that work for me, gives a true bearing to the point so I can be accurate to one degree for all 360 degrees. In fact used the process to hide a cache and those who have found the cache have been surprised by another use of a GPSr. Check out GCG6QP Clear Creek Reservoir at http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=72037 1950 Surveyor
  13. quote:Being a member of the USPS means you have to do a minimum amount of community service. That is what credits are for. For my USGS mapping, I also have to keep track of my hours and report them to the USGS. They have to track all that stuff. DustyJacket I'm still confused about these credits. What are they good for? Movies, merit badges, gifts, ??? Why does the USGS care about the number of hours spent looking for these things? Are they interested in how many hours the rest of us spend on searching for BMs, including research time at local libraries finding old maps and photos to verify the results? When I worked for the Bureau of Reclamation, they paid me to find BMs. Can I cash in on my "credits"? 1950 Surveyor
  14. In some cases, even once a year may not be often enough. Two years ago, there were a number of BMs located in bridge abutments along I-25. Then the highway was widened and all the bridges replaced. Noone ever logged the BMs as being destroyed and they are still carried in the database. Since I didn't actually witness the destruction of the BMs, I can only log them now as Not Found although I know better. 1950 Surveyor
  15. quote: thinking about getting a used metal detector, but it would have to be under $100... I thought I needed a metal detector for benchmark hunting so bought a Bounty Hunter Quick Draw II at a local pawn shop for less than what they sell for on Ebay. Boy, am I disappointed. Am looking for old BMs along abandonded mining railroads. The railcars spilled too much ore so everything is mixed together. The detector has not done any good. Maybe I can get my money back on Ebay. 1950 Surveyor
  16. quote:Originally posted by Black Dog Trackers: http://www.usps.org/national/coch/ is the United States Power Squadron's webpage on the Cooperative Charting Program. In it, click: [Next, Field Activities, 6. Geodetic Mark Recovery, More] to get to the interesting part for us. http://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/mcd/uspscoop/index.htm is the NOAA website on the Cooperative Charting Program. "In order for the USPS participants to receive the Cooperative Charting credits they deserve for mark recovery reports, they must also report to NOS the fact that they have submitted a specific number of marks to NGS." What are these credits and how many number of marks? I also see that they need to keep track of their time and mileage. Why? Can they take credit on income taxes for volunteer time? If NGS recognizes them for their efforts, then geocaching.com participants should also be recognized.
  17. In this particular case, the station was not hidden by trees or bushes, just a big boulder out in the open and at the proper location. Was not difficult to find. Even the coordinates were fairly accurate. It appears that the station was never checked by USPS so therefore was logged as Not Found. Would be better not to make a log at all.
  18. Interesting! Thanks for the followup and the thread. Found the nearest chapter in Boulder, CO, 100 miles from here. Will go back through their data for "Not Found" disks and see what I can find. They probably should stick with nautical problems in maps and leave the railroads and highways to land lovers.
  19. Of all the benchmarks I've found, I have observed only two Witness Posts. What are they? Why and how are they used? Who installs them and when? What markers qualify for a post? How are they anchored?
  20. I have run into various Found or Not Found logged in 1997 by the US POWER SQUADRON. Until today, I trusted their findings. However, today I found JK0267 (R 292) exactly as given in the description but had been logged by the above group as Not Found! Are these professionals paid by the US Government, students or individuals like most of us?
  21. quote:Originally posted by beejay&esskay: quote:Originally posted by Colorado Papa:whereas the coordinates have been off by as much as NINE plus MILES! quote:Dave Doyle wants to know of these errors ... I emailed Dave July 9 but have not had a reply.
  22. I've had experience with only about a dozen benchmarks, mostly near Leadville, Colorado, an old mining community. In most cases the description has been accurate whereas the coordinates have been off by as much as NINE plus MILES! I wasted a lot of time initially trying to find the markers with only the GPS.
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