kitkatt1960

Maybe........just maybe....... even your reviewer is fed up with uninteresting.... magnet on a roadside guardrail type of caches..... Move it off the road..... 50, 150 even 25 feet!..... give it a reason to be there! Don't just place your caches "because you can".... some people actually like a HUNT not just a number affair.

Please do not take offense to my next comment. It is my opinion. If you agree fine, if not ... sorry.... Multi caches (regardless of size, distance covered, or complexity) only appeal to a small percentage of cachers. I had a 12 point multi which I placed in my home town. I told people that it covered a large area. I told people that it would probably take a fair amount of time. I told people that it would be complex. I told people that they might see things that they probably would not see on other caches. I told people that it was going to be a bit of a challenge. AND I told them that the final was a mini..... I had about 10 finds in 5 months...... the first few that attempted it left rave reviews.... the second set was a bit less "agreeable" and the most recent to find it was down right vindictive that I would have the nerve to force him to spend his gas on this type of cache. At the end of his tirade, I archived the cache....PERMANENTLY. You will NEVER please everyone. Just keep in mind that the small percentage that LIKE multi caches.... will go to the ends of the earth if the cache is complex, challenging, and above all entertaining! The size is not an issue with me. I just want something that is not just a simple "walk up". Give your cache some thought ..... Make it have meaning! Please do not make it another cache that is placed "just because I can"! ----- End of Tirade! Fred 1/2 of Kitkatt1960

I read all of the responses, and I have come to the conclusion that each and every one of you needs to hear my appology. My aplogy to all Now that I have done this and other formal moves.... lets see if the trend continues. Fred, Whom by the way is not affraid of being known VE6FRM

I have seen a massive upswing in the number of caches that are placed in the world. If my little corner of the world is any indication of the quality of the general cache, our hobby is in big trouble. It seems to me that a lot of the caches being placed is just "because I can do it". Originally there was an underlying current that the placed caches would be tied to one of the following: 1) A unique geophysical phenonomena..... like a cliff on the praries, or a prarie in the mountains... 2) A unique view of the area....top of the highest hill on a really flat plain.... 3) A location with a unique piece of history attached to it.... Like the old location for a moved town or factory...or a farm ...or the first oil well in the country or whatever..... When you found one of those caches you actually learned something. Some of the multies of the "past era" even made you use the special features of your GPS.... like changes units of measure.... or varied datum to find secondary points.... You learned something on these..... you went to places that you usually did not go.... and you had fun, single or in teams... it didnt matter..... Lately however the "I" generation has moved in. I can place a cache.... I can put it somewhere that I can get to it easy. I dont care if anyone else likes it I am the only one that counts. Well I am longing for the old days..... when you felt good that you found a cache, not the way that I feel now when I trip over poorly placed, or replaced caches, or in areas that are ecologically destroyed by cachers that dont take the time to walk around a flower bed to get to a cache. I am sure that we all have one guy in the area that seems to have this thing about being the one with the most caches in the region.... JUST CUZ HE CAN. Well I have gotten to the point that I will not go out of my way to find a cache of his. If I trip over it when looking for someone elses, then I log it... but otherwise ....NO WAY. I will drive a hundred miles for an interesting cache before I will walk across the street for a bland one. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy LOTS of challenging and well based caches..... but there has got to be a limit.... Then again, even I slip into the Mass vs quality zone..... especially when I get into an area where ONE cachers has placed caches every 200 meters along the main path in a park! Just as a form of protest! Well now I have to go for a 100 mile drive to find my next cache! Have Fun... and enjoy... after all this is supposed to be a hobby!

I have to admit that I have not read every reply in this list, but I feel that I MUST throw in my two cents worth.... even if you figure it ain't worth that much. I have seen a massive upswing in the number of caches that are placed in the world. If my little corner of the world is any indication of the quality of the general cache, our hobby is in big trouble. It seems to me that a lot of the caches being placed is just "because I can do it". Originally there was an underlying current that the placed caches would be tied to one of the following: 1) A unique geophysical phenonomena..... like a cliff on the praries, or a prarie in the mountains... 2) A unique view of the area....top of the highest hill on a really flat plain.... 3) A location with a unique piece of history attached to it.... Like the old location for a moved town or factory...or a farm ...or the first oil well in the country or whatever..... When you found one of those caches you actually learned something. Some of the multies of the "past era" even made you use the special features of your GPS.... like changes units of measure.... or varied datum to find secondary points.... You learned something on these..... you went to places that you usually did not go.... and you had fun, single or in teams... it didnt matter..... Lately however the "I" generation has moved in. I can place a cache.... I can put it somewhere that I can get to it easy. I dont care if anyone else likes it I am the only one that counts. Well I am longing for the old days..... when you felt good that you found a cache, not the way that I feel now when I trip over poorly placed, or replaced caches, or in areas that are ecologically destroyed by cachers that dont take the time to walk around a flower bed to get to a cache. I am sure that we all have one guy in the area that seems to have this thing about being the one with the most caches in the region.... JUST CUZ HE CAN. Well I have gotten to the point that I will not go out of my way to find a cache of his. If I trip over it when looking for someone elses, then I log it... but otherwise ....NO WAY. I will drive a hundred miles for an interesting cache before I will walk across the street for a bland one. Well now I have to go for a 100 mile drive to find my next cache! Have Fun... and enjoy... after all this is supposed to be a hobby!

spoken like a true torontonian! I have no problem with privatization.... but there should be at least a control factor from the Public sector when it comes to PUBLIC information.... and if you had not noticed.... the control is in the hands of the private sector..... Therefore continue paying through the nose... no hassles... after all the more that you pay ..... the less I will have to.

well... i guess that was one of the smallest "cache clatches" that there is... 4 in attendance.. but the coffee was good! Fred

It is wonderful to rely on Fugawi, and /or any other format .... but consider these things: 1) As was mentioned above, the computer that you rely on will (under Murphys law).. Fail when you need it the most. 2) I still use a compass..... I know for guys that love their GPS units, it is kinda like a slide rule vs a calculator (I know how to use the slide rule too)... guess I am of old school... but my compass does not need batteries.... and it ALWAYS works. 3) As I stated before... the Canadian Topo map datum is OWNED by private industry.... therefore, if there is no copy of the data, and no printed version available to the public... the DATA now becomes a priceless commodity....If you think that the price of the current software is high...HANG ON... Just once ask that private company for a single 6 mile by 6 mile (Township) of data for your personal use.......DIG DEEP my fugawi friend.... I priced it a couple of years ago... and believe me, unless you are "independantly wealthy", you dont want to ask the second time! I feel that the point is not that there is software out there, the point is more that the commercial development and "OWNERSHIP" of the data is going to be a Hassle point in the future. I am lucky... I have friends in the GIS industry that are willing to "loan" new data sets to the non profit organizatins in our area....If they are willing to forget where they got the data and also if they are going to use the data for public enhancement and support of government agencies. Like I said previously....It is time to write a letter! Fred

The Canadian Government is world famous for privatizing the mapping of our country. Look at the availability of any maps in our country.....and now look at the availability of Maps of the same type for the US of A. I can go online to the USGS site and get any type of map for any area .... at any resolution... that I want ....FREE ( or nearly so)...... But when we come to the Canadian site..... they refer you to a private corporation that will sell you the information ....if you are willing to wait.... and pay through the nose...... SOMETHING IS REALLY WRONG WITH THIS WHOLE PICTURE. There are tons of volunteer groups and hobbyists that rely on accurate maps and their ready availability... NOT just us geocachers.... look at the hook that the Search and Rescue teams are going to be put onto. It is time to start writing letters to MPs, MLAs and even Civic officials.... Lets get this ball rolling.... Maybe we can reverse some "beaurocratic decisions". Fred

Saturday pm...(post 1400hrs) thru til and including sunday (2100hrs)... can be freed up for caffine.... OH who is kidding whom... I always want coffee.... by the cup, pot or for that matter IV whatever works.... set the time and place and if at all possible I (and Cath... and maybe even Seeka and Bo) will attempt to attend..... Besides... then I can show off my newest aquistion..... a "geo frog" golf club cover! The Bald guy! of Kitkatt1960

great to see such fast and acurate cooperation from the "wet coast". The friendship of geocaching is still alive! Thanks for restoring my faith in our hobby Fred

Hey I too have spent lots of money on "swag" and containers, but that is not the point. Like Pigy puts it, who decides and how much. Wavey put forward that the FEDS are telling us that the geocaches on national parks land is VERBOTTEN, and yet they are pushing money to promote geocaches on private land???? Lets look at this from both sides of the bush.... if it is good enough for the "goose"then what about the "gander"...... or is Newfoundland not worthy of the support of the feds????????? This hobby, like a lot of others is being totally fouled up by a lot of beauocrats, and thowing federal money at it in any way shape or form is just going to make this problem amplify. Let a politician get involved in geocaching and the rules will read: only titanium containers 3.75mm X 9.38mm X4.39mm may be used for geocaching, Plus these container cannot be placed any higher than .27m or lower than .25 m from the relative surrounding ground terrain. The mounting hardware must be of suitable biodegradable material such that all signs of this cache (including the container) must decompose upon exposure to the elements for any duration longer than 132hours. Such components may be purchased for use from the queens printers for the sum of only $4397.95 plus shipping handling and tax. Said geocache may only be installed between the hours of 0840 and o925 local time and all cache finds and hides must be cleared through your local MPs office It is starting to get a bit tooo darn strict for the ones that have been into this for a long time. I for one have a real job, this is a hobby.... if it gets too bad, I guess Ill find another.... but keep up this general facade of "the governement is here to help" and you are as blind as I am without my glasses. Fred

Ok I got the westerners working and thinking! Wavevector: read the article.... it is not the fact that the government is "promoting" geocaching, it is that the government is getting INVOLVED in geocaching. It is fine if they put up a web site... heck they could even point to geospeak if they want.... the problem that I have is that they are promoting it in a fashion as if they had invented the dadgum thing. The loaning of gps equipment is great, but we have that here... and we have training on the use of the gps before you take equipment out in the field.... not many people know about it, but it is in place. And up until recently I was one of the instructors on the use of the units..... they are not hard to understand, but if you randomly hand out a "etrex" to a complete novice, chances are you will not see him or it again! My biggest beef is that the use of government funds in this vein are getting WAY out of hand. Tourist promotion is fine. Training is fine. Equipment loans is fine. but where is this "big brother assistance" going to stop?..... in the bedroom????? (hey that was a quote from another time!) Hey if the feds will give me $20G, I bet I could build a multi that even wavevector couldnt find!

Listed in the Medicine Hat News today (saturday Sept 16) in the TRAVEL section is an article that really makes me wonder. It states that tourism officials in P.E.I with the aid of the federal Minister of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency is planning on contributing over $29,000 dollars to develop the geocaching craze in PEI. The Feds are kicking in $17,350 The Tourism PEI will be kicking in $5000. and the "Central Development Corp is putting up $ 4000 They are going to develop a web site known as "www.geocachingpei.com" and teach people in the area of the benfits to them in the form of tourism. The article also states that there are more than 21,000 geocachers in the country of Canada. NOW Is it just me that is getting a bit miffed at this? I mean really... the government of Canada spending that kind of money to develop a web site and a set of caches when there are 21,000 people in the country already doing exactly the same d**&(* thing FREE of charge! OOOOOH ... I forgot to mention that there will be GPS units available for loan for those who want to try this new "sport" geeeeeezzzzzz Surely some of you out there must have some strong feelings about this one.... I dont know about all of you, but I spent my own money, time, energy and fuel to have some decent enjoyment in areas that are not so TOURISTY that you cant even see the ground for the trash left behind. Is it not time to start writing to our MP's Oh one more thing... there are already over 150 caches on the Island! and who knows how many "cachers"...... I personnally think this is just plain STUPID Fred and Cathy In Medicine Hat