eagletrek

I disagree. They were prepared to spend the night, which they did. The intent was a day climb of the mountain. They had checked the weather and thought they had the time before the storm hit. It turned out that they didn't, but they gave up when the weather turned on them and started back down. They knew what they were up against and were able to deal with it. The last time I checked a GPSr was not on the list of 10 Essentials. When found they were within a mile of the road and would likely have gotten to that later in the day. Regaurdless; unprepared or someone would have known where they were! The search was started the day before they were found because people knew where they were headed and when they expected to return. The only thing that really got them into trouble was the white out conditions so they were descending the mountain without any ground reference at all. Would a GPSr have been helpful, sure it would. In fact they have stated that they will not be going out again without some kind of location reference device. My point is that they were prepared for the conditions on the mountain. They had everything they needed to have to survive and they did survive. Location information would have made their descent better in that they would have waymarked the lodge, but they still survived because they were prepared. These were not a couple of flatlanders out for an excursion on the mountain. They were experienced climbers and knew what they were doing. Did they have a map, a compass, a GPS??????? Take a look a a topo map of the area in question. Most Second Class Boy Scouts could have gotten themselves from where they found the cache to the state highway by themselves. Prepared?????? No way as they were unable to navigate properly which is a fundamental before venturing out in the woods!!!!!! v/r Eagletrek (an Eagle Scout)

Boy I like your style!!!!!!! Once again I couldn't agree more!!!!!! If you peal back the onion on this story and look at some topo maps of the area you start to wonder who these knuckleheads were. If they were prepared with just even a map and compass they should have been able to have made it to the state highway themselves.

People are pretty quick to call others lazy around here, in my opinion. Take a look at the pic of stickers further up the thread. Stickers allow a cacher to add a bit of fun originatlity to his/her log. If cachers want to add some originality, let them add art/draw pictures in the logs. Now that's originality!!!!!!

BINGO!!!!!!!! I couldn't agree any more!!!!!!! Stickers indicate to me the laziness of the cachers who use them. Geo-Solo, it's they only way to know that "you" found it!!!!!!

Amen, to that!!!!!! GPS is very nice but I don't leave home without a map and compass, as back-up. It's a "Be Prepared" kinda' thang!!!!! Can anyone tell who the Eagle Scouts are in the crowd????

Take the compass away from the Blonde, give it to a Brunette or Redhead, and problem solved. Very funny but it is a legitimate question and I'd thought you would have answered in a slow and Zenful manner. Since JD blew you off, here's an answer from a blonde female backpacker. No More Air Bubbles What causes - and how do you prevent - air bubbles from showing up in liquid filled compasses? Just about every liquid filled compass I have used usually gets a small air bubble in it. First off, never fear: a small bubble in your compass will not affect its accuracy. Bubbles can form from high elevation or exposure to cold temperatures, which cause the liquid to contract, leaving an air bubble behind. Usually, the bubble will disappear when the compass is returned to sea level and/or room temperature. If it doesn't, place it in a warm spot-like a sunny windowsill-so the liquid can heat, expand, and return to it's normal volume. I have to agree with the author's solution as it has worked for both my wrist compass and orienteering compass in the past.

You may want to buy the more expensive version of camo tape in the Wal-Mart sporting goods section. It's what hunters use. While more expensive, it does not have a surface which can reflect light. I'm always amazed why they sell camo Duck tape that has a surface that will reflect light. Guess the manufactures never really had to rely on the principles of good camouflage

If I would be anything besides zenful, I may be quite remiss indeed that I do not live up to your expectations. I suppose my two combat tours has dulled my "common sense." Yet, I do not see the link between "GPS games" and "deal with like winning a war and preparing for the next one!!!!" Perhaps you can explain how the following cache finds below, all on a military installation, detracted from the personnel on the base from "winning a war and preparing for the next one" so that I may better understand my error? List of caches: Cache 1 Cache 2 Cache 3 Cache 4 Cache 5 Ahhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Once agin you stray from the topic at hand. I believe the OP and most that have posted on this thread were and are refering to actual physical caches. The examples you posted are all "Locationless Caches." Remember those????? So nothing was hidden. All that was to be found was an example of what the cache owner was looking for. Why do do try to confuse the issue???? Additionally, the "Locationless Caches" that I found on Fort Hood posed no issues for the military authorities on the installation as I'm properly credentialed. Remember that I work there as well. Let's try to tell the whole story next time. What you failed to mention were the caches that were placed on the installation by others and through my efforts were removed. So once again, tell me why you think it's a good idea to allow civilians to come on military installations to hide and seek caches!!!!!

The article/highlight of the piece on the website listed above clearly shows a basic Garmin Etrex; that is the bit that garnered my comment. Read the story and watch the video and then be prepared to comment on "all the facts" presented. Your Honor, the Defense rests!!!!! I stand humbled in your presence. I formally apologize for attempting to make a jovial point about this photo: with this "information" below it: Gift: Garmin GPS eTrex Web site: www.garmin.com Telephone: 800-800-1020 Price: $299 Kind sir, my comments were in no way related to the video, but the web page description of the said product. I found the photo and information ironic/slightly humorous. Without doubt, I will keep all future observations to myself. Well if that's the case, I won't charge you with Contempt of Forums!!!!!

I carry a Silva Ranger as back-up and primarily use a cheap wrist compass. After reading Jeep Dog's post, I'm also going to invest in some silk underwear!!!!!

The article/highlight of the piece on the website listed above clearly shows a basic Garmin Etrex; that is the bit that garnered my comment. Read the story and watch the video and then be prepared to comment on "all the facts" presented. Your Honor, the Defense rests!!!!!

If you were more interested in reading and expanding perspective as opposed to assuming and flaming, perhaps you would notice: 1) I never mentioned containers or "hiding" things on an installation; 2) My point was to address the misconception of non-military visiting posts; 3) I highlighted that permission is hugely problematic. If anything, I envision perhaps a multi-cache, with one of the stages being a memorial, plaque, or museum placard that would contain information for a follow-on stage or a final cache off the installation. Generally, such public awareness of memorials/plaques/museums is generally welcomed and embraced on installations. Whoa, I know that is thinking "outside the box" or "current paradigm," but so be it. The only difference in "new" and "old" is how you choose to perceive such "differences." I could just as easily judge you, from my current standpoint, for never being CSL; such nonsense is irrelevant. What I expected out of a current active duty officer would have been a clear/consise statement along the lines: "While it may be possible in some exceptional conditions, I wouldn't recommend or suggest it as we in the military have more important issues to deal with like winning a war and preparing for the next one!!!!" But then again, I'm not a slow and Zenful cacher!!!

Besides the excellent "official" explanations given by Quiggle, I would like to add that the above is not necessarily true. Many (if not most) installations have public areas such as museums, facitilities (pools, athletic fields, schools), and monuments where civilians are welcome. With proper vehicle registration, insurance and a valid ID, and explaining the purpose of the visit, civilians can get on many installations with these facilities. One of the problems is getting permission. One range control officer may or may not have the authority to grant permission. Even securing the senior mission commander or installation commander's permission is sketchy - that's a two year (at most) command, and in the exchange of duties to a replacement, an allowed geocache probably will be forgotten. I can't believe I'm reading this from Jeep Dog. Yes there are places on military installations that the public can visit such as museums as long as they have the proper vehicle registration, insurance and a valid ID, etc... They are there to visit and not play games espicially looking for and hiding things on a military installation which could easily be misconstrued as something else!!!!! Where's your common sense!!!! That said, I don't believe any commander in his right mind would grant permission to allow a bunch of folks to hide containers all over his installation. Ya know I really surprised to here this from a current comissioned officer but I guess that' the difference between the "Old Army" and the "New Army!!!!!" BOTTOM LINE: Your armed forces have a few other important things to worry about right now if you haven't noticed so find some other place to hide your caches!!!! BTW, as a retired Army Officer, I've assisted my local installation in keeping caches off government land.

If a GPS unit is supposed to be a healthy gift, then some people need to ask for a refund!!!! BTW, the GPS shown in the video was not a basic one but a HCx and $299.00 is the upper end of the price range, even though it can be had for less!!!!

I must agree, if only for a somewhat related but far more pertinent and relevant reason: I feel that the focus of the OP, in starting this particular thread, is incredibly short-sighted, anthropocentric and earth-centric, as he initiates these "chats" only for launches of US "space missions" and totally ignores the numerous landings and takeoffs -- on and from our planet's surface -- of alien starships and alien shuttle craft which occur regularly. Do I detect some kind of sinister pro-human or pro-earth bias or agenda on the part of the OP? Hmmmm???? LMAO!!!!!!! Gotta go, the mothership is here!!!!!!!

We used this same technique for years when I was in the military and it works for most types of cans. We would weld the loop to the can instead of drilling through the can. Just a thought.

A well camoed ammo can hidden in an interesting location. You know, one where the owner has invested some time and effort to paint and hide the can properly.

Ohhhhhhh!!!!!!! That's a whole other thread and it doesn't matter if you're young or old!!!!!!

Hey Gator Man, Do you work for Pratt???

ESTJ That's my profile and I'm sticking to it!!!!!!!

You are right in that it doesn't affect you. You and many, ooops i used that word again, others have chosen to geocache the way you do and this has worked out great for you. The thing is, not everyone has chosen to play this same way. Actually, i shouldn't have used the word chosen. For me, this is a right vs wrong issue and since i see it as being wrong, i really have no choice to make. This does affect others in different ways. Some do not want to see the multiple "found temp" logs inundate a cache page. Some, like me, have fun with numbers and with the fun competition that sometimes comes along with them. Our area enjoys friendly competition and the celebrating of milestones. I really don't see how either of these could be accomplished if everyone counted differently. It would bug me if there was a big milestone celebration and i knew that the number of finds that person had was not accurate. On fun competition, it would certainly take away from that if i found out that numbers were gained in ways that i think are questionable. I know it's only a game, a minor thing in our lives, but these are aspects of geocaching that i enjoy and since i do see it as being wrong, it would affect me if it were happening around me. Well if this is the case, I wouldn't plan on attending any more celebrations for "caching milestones" for Texas' top cacher as that individual has "counted differently" and that's a "fact" as I have the evidence to prove it!!!!

WOW!!!!!! That's interesting as some of the top cachers in Texas are guilty of the practice!!!!!!!! So much for practicing what you preach!!!!!!!! WOW. So much punctuation. You andI don't usually see eye to eye, but I'd love to see your input on THIS THREAD. Sorry, I have a stuttering index finger! Wow, I found your philosophy to be interesting. I wouldn't have the time or patience to spell it out for others to read, but thanks for your effort. I found the topic by the original OP to be interesting as well as 9 Key's post. It interests me that some of Texas' top cachers don't seem to agree with what 9 Key stated in his post. That's all, just my observation. 9key pointed out the facts in his post. He did NOT try to say that it doesn't happen in Texas, only that many frown on the practice and that we don't see it too often. I live here and i can say that i've never seen it occur (i could have missed something of course) at any of the 60+ events that i've attended. There's no doubt that some cachers in Texas (i figure in every state) do it, but i would bet that they are a small percentage compared to those who don't. And I didn't say it happened all over the state, or by many of the Texas cachers. What surprized me, is that it is a practice among some of the state's top cachers. I find it interesting that since it has been frowned upon that the top cachers in the state find it an acceptable practice. If you'd like me to provide you with more facts, I can provide you with the event and the cachers in question. Just because you don't see it happening, doesn't mean it's not being done! An easy way to find the "culprits" is to check an individual's finds for event caches. Note the number of finds listed and compare that to the list of individual events attended. If the numbers don't jive, you've found an individual who more than likely has indulged in this practice. Not sure what you are trying to argue here. I think i can speak for 9key and say that we both agree with you in that logging temps does happen in Texas. I would guess that this occurs or has occurred in every state for that matter. The OP is looking for a general consensus and that's what most who are replying in this thread are trying to give. In my opinion, bringing up "top cachers" who do it really has nothing to do with anything. They don't represent the bulk of cachers in Texas and their logging habits certainly don't speak for everyone else here. I'm simply stating what i've seen in my travels, nothing more. As i hinted in my post above, i may have missed some things since i don't scrutinize other cacher's logging practices. My statement above indicated a simple fact,,, that the practice is frowned upon by many and that i have NOT personally seen it happen here in Texas. I'm not arguing anything here! It seems that you may want to. I'm glad you have NOT seen it. To say "it is frowned upon by many" is not a fact unless it can be backed up by hard evidence. Have you conducted any polls lately???

WOW!!!!!! That's interesting as some of the top cachers in Texas are guilty of the practice!!!!!!!! So much for practicing what you preach!!!!!!!! WOW. So much punctuation. You andI don't usually see eye to eye, but I'd love to see your input on THIS THREAD. Sorry, I have a stuttering index finger! Wow, I found your philosophy to be interesting. I wouldn't have the time or patience to spell it out for others to read, but thanks for your effort. I found the topic by the original OP to be interesting as well as 9 Key's post. It interests me that some of Texas' top cachers don't seem to agree with what 9 Key stated in his post. That's all, just my observation. 9key pointed out the facts in his post. He did NOT try to say that it doesn't happen in Texas, only that many frown on the practice and that we don't see it too often. I live here and i can say that i've never seen it occur (i could have missed something of course) at any of the 60+ events that i've attended. There's no doubt that some cachers in Texas (i figure in every state) do it, but i would bet that they are a small percentage compared to those who don't. And I didn't say it happened all over the state, or by many of the Texas cachers. What surprized me, is that it is a practice among some of the state's top cachers. I find it interesting that since it has been frowned upon that the top cachers in the state find it an acceptable practice. If you'd like me to provide you with more facts, I can provide you with the event and the cachers in question. Just because you don't see it happening, doesn't mean it's not being done! An easy way to find the "culprits" is to check an individual's finds for event caches. Note the number of finds listed and compare that to the list of individual events attended. If the numbers don't jive, you've found an individual who more than likely has indulged in this practice.

WOW!!!!!! That's interesting as some of the top cachers in Texas are guilty of the practice!!!!!!!! So much for practicing what you preach!!!!!!!! WOW. So much punctuation. You andI don't usually see eye to eye, but I'd love to see your input on THIS THREAD. Sorry, I have a stuttering index finger! Wow, I found your philosophy to be interesting. I wouldn't have the time or patience to spell it out for others to read, but thanks for your effort. I found the topic by the original OP to be interesting as well as 9 Key's post. It interests me that some of Texas' top cachers don't seem to agree with what 9 Key stated in his post. That's all, just my observation.

WOW!!!!!! That's interesting as some of the top cachers in Texas are guilty of the practice!!!!!!!! So much for practicing what you preach!!!!!!!!