eagletrek
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Posts posted by eagletrek
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[*] MAJOR fear of being abducted by a band of beautiful hottie wild Amazon women who would then keep me in their wilderness camp and force me to provide services for them to help keep them happy. Good golly gosh, I would REALLY hate that! Really!
Mandrake. Women uh... women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid women, Mandrake. But I... I do deny them my essence"
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PuritanCaching.com. (Stolen from Mr. T.)
I couldn't agree more!!!!! If geocaching continues the way it has, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if a separate branch of geocaching develops for those folks who like consistency and appreciate a game that has rules to be followed and not blown off. While I've logged quite a few finds, I only consider a handfull to be really rewarding. In the future, I look forward to only seeking out "worthwhile" caches.
It would be nice if there was a recognized branch of geocaching where everyone plays the same game, by the same rules. Consistency would be much appreciated by those of us that prefer "black & white," versus the "rainbow" of "play game the way you want."Wait a minute...I thought you said there was NO integrity in geocaching?Generally, I agree, I am not personally going to get worked up over how others log finds...play the game the way you want, but conversely people logging "out of the norm" have to accept that log owner's have the final say.
Conversely, I don't criticize people for supporting integrity in the game. If it's their preference that the game have standards that's also their prerogative. They just need to accept that it's never going to be a purist game.
At some point we all generally have a line to draw somewhere...
LOL!!!!!! But I think you got it wrong. The Puritans were kinda a splinter group themselves. A more proper caching site might be JesuitCaching.com!!!!!
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I've learned that when I need a laugh, all I have to do is enter the forums!!!!!
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Yup, there you have it!
Eliminate the published numbers and you solve the problem!
Bogus logs would help no one; high numbers or low numbers would not be a way to judge each other.
No one would be able to accuse another of being a numbers-ho und and any fear that bogus logs are degrading the game or our collective reputation would be quelled.
I certainly wouldn't miss them.
Ed, as one of the Deep Dixie region's original Numbers Ho's (since reformed!), I never thought I'd say this to you re your above-quoted post, but: I AGREE! Get rid of the stats and you not only solve the bogus logging problem, but you also solve Micro Spew - after all, what other incentive would cachers have to both hide and find so much UTTER CRAP (not ALL micros, just the Spew )? And you also stop the practice of deifying high-number cachers, and treat everyone equally, as regards "how people are perceived at events"...maybe folks would still get recognized for their longevity or for their reputations as great hiders or creative log-writers, but not just for their stats.
Ya know I'd never thought I'd agree with a concept like this but I actually do. If you get rid of the numbers you get rid of alot of issues. In fact, I think it will help to cull the herd.
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I don't know why I respond to these posts... but at the risk of being flayed alive
I feel someone needs to point out that this is not a problem unique to Geocaching. This is a broader issue concerning modern society and the push to be more and more "permissive" and less "judgemental". You know, the "we don't keep score because someone's feelings might get hurt" mentality. I guess I still come from that "old school" position that believes that things are right or wrong and that there's far less "gray" than some would have us believe. And someone will probably flame me here and say "how can you judge me personally on how I play geocaching... you don't even know me?". It's much like our current political campaigning... folks tell you what they think you want to hear, the only way to judge the moral character of an individual is based upon their prior actions. Yes, I do take into account that people change... we know they do, but your prior actions are still the best bet when judging how you'll behave in the future.Now everyone stand back, I'm about to use the big "C" word... Cheating. Based on my belief in this theory, I'd figure that if you cheat at something as meaningless a geocaching, you must be a real piece of work in your daily interactions outside of geocaching. It's like the old saying "Character is what you do when no one's watching". Character assumes that right and wrong do exist, that there are objective moral standards that transcend individual choice—standards like respect, responsibility, honesty, and fairness. And I'll tell you that geocaching and "find logs" are the ultimate when it comes to "no one watching"... meaning, yes the site and TPTB leave you all the freedom in the world to log things however you want and however many times you wish. I just believe that others should then feel free to judge your character by your actions.
Feel free to flame away. I know some will want to argue about the semantics of what is and isn't a find... whether geocaching has "rules" or "guidelines" and what all that means. Some will want to call me "judgemental" or a "puritan" or other various and sundry names. There will be those that say "everyone plays by their own rules" which to me means "I'm unable to comprehend or follow simple instructions, so I make up my own, which keeps me happy"... and then there will be the string of posts shirking any responsibility with the words "it doesn't hurt me so why should I care?".
So I guess my answer is yes, we are allowing the degredation of geocaching... but I don't believe we have to accept it.
Thanks for the discussion,
DCC
My thoughts exactly! DCC for President of Geocachers with Integrity!
Amen to that my brother!!!!!!! He's got my vote!!!!!!
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Wait a minute...I thought you said there was NO integrity in geocaching?
Generally, I agree, I am not personally going to get worked up over how others log finds...play the game the way you want, but conversely people logging "out of the norm" have to accept that log owner's have the final say.
Conversely, I don't criticize people for supporting integrity in the game. If it's their preference that the game have standards that's also their prerogative. They just need to accept that it's never going to be a purist game.
At some point we all generally have a line to draw somewhere...
It would be nice if there was a recognized branch of geocaching where everyone plays the same game, by the same rules. Consistency would be much appreciated by those of us that prefer "black & white," versus the "rainbow" of "play game the way you want."
I couldn't agree more!!!!! If geocaching continues the way it has, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if a separate branch of geocaching develops for those folks who like consistency and appreciate a game that has rules to be followed and not blown off. While I've logged quite a few finds, I only consider a handfull to be really rewarding. In the future, I look forward to only seeking out "worthwhile" caches.
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<snip> I think this issue is between a cacher and their deity of choice and how they reconcile their life.
I agree that everyone should play by the guidelines and play fair (trade even/trade up, sign the log), but has this game really become THAT serious?
Why yes it has!!!!!! Apparently you didn't get the memo.
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I was actually finished with this thread, but I wanted to comment to say that the cache got archived. It had nothing to do with a mis-categorization, but apparently a combination of rude owner notes, and the fact that it keeps disappearing.
Then the owner deleted my find in revenge, and sent me an unfriendly email saying he did not want me to find any of his caches. (okay)
My first deleted note. I'll have to write this one down on my calendar in red letters and celebrate the anniversary in future years for nostalgia. This went WAY farther than I ever intended it to.
Actually, I didn't delete your note. "MissJenn" did that.
While I'm here, I think I should be afforded the opportunity to address this issue and straighten some things out.
Apparently, someone or a group of people are misinformed as to the location of this cache. This particular cache has NEVER ONCE been removed by anyone. In fact, that is the reason I placed it on campus -- the City of College Station parks people kept "acquiring" my caches placed in city parks. Because that happened several times, I decided to not place them within the city proper and instead placed this one ON CAMPUS -- WHICH DOES NOT BELONG TO THE CITY. This cache has never been stolen or otherwise removed by anyone, yet "MissJenn" is under the mistaken impression that this is the one that was repeatedly stolen and says that's why it was (wrongfully) archived.
And the ones that told you this was placed as a traditional cache instead of a multi because of its age are also correct. It was posted years ago, before the current guidelines.
No geocachers came to the event cache because I didn't really care if they did or not...I didn't make any effort to promote it by contacting geocachers. I just posted in case they wanted to see what a fox hunt was since we had one scheduled for that date. There were plenty of hams there, just no geocachers.
So, you (casedelrut) should try to be better informed before you come here complaining about me or my caches. Since they obviously trouble you, yes -- I asked that you not bother finding any of them in the future. What good could come from it?
JM
Just another reason to avoid TAM.
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I wanted to add in this forum thread (by Trainlove)
that all those other lines are called isogonic lines, i.e. I live near the 15°W isogonic line.
If one looks at an aeronautical chart one sees the isogonic lines 15, 15.5, 16, 16.5... but if you look at a VOR circle the Magnetic north there looks to be different a bit, that's because around here the 15° isogonic line looks to almost be 15° west of north itself, just plain luck.
Oh no!!!!!!!! Not more lines to worry about!!!! I keep on tripping over those dang contour lines. Now I got to worry about all them isogonic lines, also?????
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Oh hell, it's time to send out the hit squads!!!!!! I seem to remember in the not so distant past that some of those European folks were real good at following orders/instructions!!!!
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To spin off from the "Spoilers and Giveaways" thread, do you share the solutions to puzzle caches? IMO if you didn't solve the puzzle you shouldn't claim a find, but there's the gray area of kids and spouses that come along and sign the log.
Case in point: I have a four star difficulty puzzle that was found by three different cachers yesterday but only one of them had actually solved the puzzle. The other two just rode along and signed the logbook.
Really, what's the difference between this and geo-herding????? In my opinion, none. I believe you have advocated in the past that folks should be able to play the game as they see fit. Do you really believe folks aren't going to cheat????
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Just curious...
Would thermals allow you to see trees while walking in the woods at night? Seems like the temps would be similar enough that there wouldn't be a distinguishable difference.. but I don't claim to understand exactly how they work either...
Actually, each tree will have it's own thermal properties because not all trees are the same size or shape. You can get a fair visual of what is in front of you. Even cold water pipes side by side were visible in demos I saw because again the thermal properties were just enough different. It's almost like seeing daytime in a negative.
Absolutely!!!!!! As long as there is a slight differnce in temperature everything is visible. Now if you're on a cache that's using firetacks or reflectors, using NVGs with an IR illuminator is the way to go. But for finding a plain ole' cache at night without having to use any light, thermals are the way to go.
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Ahhhh!!!! Another escape from the "natural selection" monster!!!!!!
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Plain ole' Parker with a Fischer Space Pen refill. It will sign on most anything to include soaked logs.
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Secret Greeting for cachers???? Hmmmm, does sneaking up to someone at a cache, and then at about 15 feet, scream out, "Did you find it?", count as a secret greeting. Maybe not, but it's fun.
I've tried a variation which usually throws most folks for a loop. I sneak up on them while they're fixated on their GPSr and shout "Hey , what are you doin'?" It kinda' freaks them out. I'm always amazed at how un-situationally aware most folks are while searching for a cache.
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Yes, it is good that they're safe and sound. Target, Cease Fire!!!!
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It's not the price of the unit, it's always the additional fees:
One of the most important things you need to know is that these are all subscription based services. Current price is $99 per year for standard service and an extra $49 per year for the SPOTcasting tracking service. After you purchase the SPOT Satellite Messenger, you then have to go online and purchase the subscription, registering the device with SPOT. It's two separate transactions.
That said, I think I'll buy an ACR PLB before this item.
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Great story! I still can't understand why you'd do a hike like that these days without a GPS.
Just watched an interview with the 2 guys. They didn't take a locator device because "We didn't think we'd need it"... Same old story. They should charge these guys for the costs of sending 20 people up there looking for them. Hiking unprepared on Mt. Hood in the middle of January? STUPID
Now there's a comment by the uninformed. Climbing a mountain is much different then "hiking unprepared on Mt. Hood". They were prepared - they were experienced climbers attempting winter climb of a mountain they've climbed before and were able to make a snow cave and spend the night, that shows a lot of preparedness. Their only error was not renting the locator units (something unique to Mt Hood), this is something that's not required, but is wise to do.
As to "charging them" that opens another whole can of worms. Most rescue groups are volunteer. If they start charging, then they are "pro" and a different set of rules/laws come into play. And then you have the arguement about when is rescue really needed - if I'm overdue but walk out on my own, should I be charged for something I didn't need or want? This has been a long and interesting discussion among mountain climbing groups.
The only stupid thing I see here is opinions expressed by people who have no idea what they are talking about.
You are the only one uninformed Sir (I use that lightly). I watched an interview they had with the guy after he got off the mountain.. HE SAID THEY WERE UNPREPARED. Which part of that are you having difficulty understanding?
Where you are calling them STUPID.
Have you done any mountain climbing? I have. I teach climbing with The Mountaineer's. I've been in a full whiteout. I've raced a storm off a peak when weather closed in fast.
Are familiar with that mountain/route? Again, I am. In whiteout, it's one of the easiest to get off route - even slightly will make you miss Timberline Lodge. They were doing what they needed to, heading for Hwy 26. They were almost there when SAR called them on the cell phone (which hadn't worked earlier).
You comments about "hiking" and "charging them for rescue" tell me all I need to know about your knowledge.
Edit to add: I watched the interview again. They never said "they were unprepared" - what they said is "they could have been better prepared", a much different meaning. The one went on to say "if we'd had a GPS we could have gotten to where we needed to be." So, by not bringing one item, they are unprepared? Not hardly.
Totally Unprepared!!!!!! If navigation is critical to your survial especially where you can have white-out conditions, then not bringing a GPS is being totally unprepared , if not plain ignorant!!!! OBTW, make sure you have sufficient batteries to handle the length of your stay.
Screw the I've taught mountaineering nonsense. How about using a little Eagle Scout common sense!!!!!!! I bet these outdoorsman never learned the basics in the Boy Scouts.
Thanks for the laugh! Eagle Scout common sense. That's a good one. How is that any different than other common sense? Have you taken any Mountaineering training? Navigation is a big part of that. They did exactly what any scout would have done in the same situation. By missing a target point (Timberline Lodge) - which over the distance traveled is easy to do for ANYONE (scout or not) - they then headed for a known line (Hwy 26) which would then lead them back to base. This is standard, basic navigation. They did good.
By claiming that they were "totally unprepared" for not carrying one device is ridiculous. Why pick just the GPSr? There are some many items that they could have carried: MLU, sat phone, ham handheld, PELB. The list could go on. Remember, a GPSr is only one navigation tool available - and a fairly fragile one at that. Any device that requires batteries is problematic - cold can do very strange things (hence, why they didn't use their cell phone earlier). I've seen brand new batteries die in seconds in the cold.
I could return the insult to you about "scouting nonsense", but that wouldn't be any more true then you comment/insult. But I know that while scouting is good, it isn't the only place to learn navigation skills. I was just pointing out that I do have the knowledge to base my comments on.
Yeah, I think I have a little expertise in the outdoors and navigating, 12 years of scouting as a youth, 20 years in the military, and 6 years of scouting as an adult. Add to that some extensive experience in backpacking and navigation through various areas of the globe to include the Western Saudi Desert and I'd say I got some experience. BTW, have you ever encountered a brown-out and I'm not talikng about the electrical type. That said, I consider myself fairly competent with a map, compass, and GPSr.
I'm glad the folks in question were able to work there way out of their fix but it still doesn't negate the fact that they should have taken a GPSr and the requisite batteries. BTW, I never said a GPSr was the only navigation device they should have had. When I leave the house to go into the outdoors, I take a map, compass, and GPSr. I'm really considering adding a PLB when all else fails. See if I now go out without a PLB and get screwed up or die, you can all get on the forum and say how unprepared I was and you would be right. Honey, I'm buying that PLB.
As far as a GPSr and batteries being fragile, I'd have to disagree. While anything electronic can fail, my Garmin GPSMAP 60CS hasn't let me down once in over 3 and 1/2 years worth of use. I've abused it fairly well and it keeps on ticking. Yes, batteries and electronics can be a problem in cold weather but if you know how and where to carry them, they'll work pretty much as advertised. See they teach you things like that in the military!!!!!
I'm sorry you took my post as an insult but then again most folks do find the truth to be offensive.
OBTW, "Be Prepared" it's a Scouting Thang!!!!!
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NVGs are Ole' School!!!! Try the new line of hand-held thermal viewers. Way pricey but extremely effective, especially close in at most caches. Because of the difference in the ability of materials to gain or shed heat, the temperature of a cache will either be cooler or hotter than the background they're hidden in making them stand out like a sore thumb.
Trust me, thermals are the way to go when seeing 24 hours a day. We used our thermal sights 24 hours a day as our primary weapons sight.
Now if the cache is under four feet of snow or 20 feet of water, that's a whole other story.
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Someone slipped me a note from the next stall in the men's room!!!!!!
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The cache page says GPS may not work in the area. I imagine it's worse in a whiteout. Probably wouldn't have helped.
GPSrs normally work well all over the planet as long as their signal is not blocked. Most problems occur when satellite coverage is poor due to the number of satellites available within LOS, canopy cover, and even disruption from heavy atmospherics. But like anything, just wait awhile and it will improve.
As far as the whiteout is concerned, they should have sheltered up once they couldn't sufficiently navigate and waited out the storm. It would have been a good time for a brew-up!!!!! As with everything, folks need to learn that common sense and patience are the corner stones to getting out of a tight fix.
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So where were your night vision goggles? No sense in spooking the neighbors with flashlights.
Night vision googles???? How Ole' School!!!!!!!! Why not a hand-held thermal viewer?????? Much better!!!!!
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Great story! I still can't understand why you'd do a hike like that these days without a GPS.
Just watched an interview with the 2 guys. They didn't take a locator device because "We didn't think we'd need it"... Same old story. They should charge these guys for the costs of sending 20 people up there looking for them. Hiking unprepared on Mt. Hood in the middle of January? STUPID
Now there's a comment by the uninformed. Climbing a mountain is much different then "hiking unprepared on Mt. Hood". They were prepared - they were experienced climbers attempting winter climb of a mountain they've climbed before and were able to make a snow cave and spend the night, that shows a lot of preparedness. Their only error was not renting the locator units (something unique to Mt Hood), this is something that's not required, but is wise to do.
As to "charging them" that opens another whole can of worms. Most rescue groups are volunteer. If they start charging, then they are "pro" and a different set of rules/laws come into play. And then you have the arguement about when is rescue really needed - if I'm overdue but walk out on my own, should I be charged for something I didn't need or want? This has been a long and interesting discussion among mountain climbing groups.
The only stupid thing I see here is opinions expressed by people who have no idea what they are talking about.
You are the only one uninformed Sir (I use that lightly). I watched an interview they had with the guy after he got off the mountain.. HE SAID THEY WERE UNPREPARED. Which part of that are you having difficulty understanding?
Where you are calling them STUPID.
Have you done any mountain climbing? I have. I teach climbing with The Mountaineer's. I've been in a full whiteout. I've raced a storm off a peak when weather closed in fast.
Are familiar with that mountain/route? Again, I am. In whiteout, it's one of the easiest to get off route - even slightly will make you miss Timberline Lodge. They were doing what they needed to, heading for Hwy 26. They were almost there when SAR called them on the cell phone (which hadn't worked earlier).
You comments about "hiking" and "charging them for rescue" tell me all I need to know about your knowledge.
Edit to add: I watched the interview again. They never said "they were unprepared" - what they said is "they could have been better prepared", a much different meaning. The one went on to say "if we'd had a GPS we could have gotten to where we neededd to be." So, by not bringing one item, they are unprepared? Not hardly.
Totally Unprepared!!!!!! If navigation is critical to your survial especially where you can have white-out conditions, then not bringing a GPS is being totally unprepared , if not plain ignorant!!!! OBTW, make sure you have sufficient batteries to handle the length of your stay.
Screw the I've taught mountaineering nonsense. How about using a little Eagle Scout common sense!!!!!!! I bet these outdoorsman never learned the basics in the Boy Scouts.
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Most people will have lost interest in geocaching and will have moved on to something else and the government will establish a super-fund to take care of all the Geo-trash left in the wild. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!!!!!!
Are we allowing the degradation of geocaching?
in General geocaching topics
Posted
Well I know Texas is a big state but I can tell you from first hand knowledge that lying, cheating and all other forms of dubious activities are alive and well within the Texas Geocaching community. In fact, what makes it worse is that it exists among some of the state's top cachers. I believe it's alive and well across the entire globe!!!!
It seems that finding a large group of honest cachers may be a tougher feat than scoring a 5/5 cache!!!!!