G & C

GeoMinions, seriously now, do you have anything to say for reasoning that the practice of deleting logs from coins should be allowed other than what you've said already? I've read through your posts, and what I come away with is pretty much something along the lines of "because I don't want them", or "because I can". Are there any other compelling reasons that we should hear about?

You suggested they log a discovery with a "current date", i.e. not the actual date they saw the coin. This would make it a virtual log. Not in my opinion - they saw the coin, does not matter that they log it now. If it is only the icon they are worried about, would not matter the date of their log of discovery. The new owner is happy because the discover log is a current date and the previous discoverer is happy cause he has his icon back. every body wins! Nah. That's still a virtual log. I think we ought to go ahead and give getting a rule instated a shot instead.

Finally something that I agree with you about. However, unfortunately, the time comes for rules and regulations when free people start doing things that degrade the lives of others. In this case, you exercising your freedom is causing other people to lose something that they clearly care a great deal about. If you were to use your freedom more responsibly, perhaps the need for rules and regulations wouldn't be coming to fruition at this point. You gain nothing by deleting logs. Absolutely nothing. Your coin is worth nothing more, nothing less. It is still worth what it was worth when you bought it with the logs. Others, however, lose icons, discoveries, miles, etc. when you delete logs. This is one of the many, many reasons that have been brought to light in this very thread as to why what you and your friends are doing is wrong and irresponsible. You'd think I caused the world to crash from being in favor of allowing a new coin owner to delete a simple TFT discovery log. Give me a break. Let's get this back into prospective, it is only an Icon, it does not affect your life in any way. Weird, I was thinking the same thing. Only, rather than an icon, I was thinking that it was only a couple of discoveries, it does not affect your life in any way. So yes, let's please do get this back into perspective. What is the big deal about a few meaningless discoveries that do not affect your life in any way?

Not possible, unless of course the coin owner is willing to meet with all of the people who had their logs deleted. Otherwise, it's nothing more than a virtual log, likely to get the coin locked completely. Hopefully not a practice that you're using with any of your many geocoins.

Finally something that I agree with you about. However, unfortunately, the time comes for rules and regulations when free people start doing things that degrade the lives of others. In this case, you exercising your freedom is causing other people to lose something that they clearly care a great deal about. If you were to use your freedom more responsibly, perhaps the need for rules and regulations wouldn't be coming to fruition at this point. You gain nothing by deleting logs. Absolutely nothing. Your coin is worth nothing more, nothing less. It is still worth what it was worth when you bought it with the logs. Others, however, lose icons, discoveries, miles, etc. when you delete logs. This is one of the many, many reasons that have been brought to light in this very thread as to why what you and your friends are doing is wrong and irresponsible.

I enjoy seeing the history on activated coins I have purchased, and don't delete them. But I also can't support locking logs. There are problems to consider if that were to be implemented. Owners don't necessarily follow their trackable logs as closely as a cache's entries. Consider too, that logs can be edited without owner notification. What a headache it would be to discover after that two week window that the log or photo has the tracking number included! Let's not add pleas to have problem trackable logs deleted to the volunteers' work load. Besides, if my logs are deleted from a coin's history, I want to retain the ability to self-delete any of my logs, movement or photo entries from any other coin belonging to that owner. Cloroxed geocoins. Bleck. These are really good points, which is why I think it's best that GS simply adopt a policy that is similar to the one that they've taken with their caches: Movements/Discoveries made within the rules should not be deleted without cause. That way, there's no problem with being able to edit logs, delete photos, etc.

Do you have an actual dog in this fight? And by that I mean, do you really actually care? I see that you do own a trackable, but is your underlying interest simply backing up your buddy GeoMinion, or do you have an actual compelling reason for wanting the ability to attempt to change coins history to your liking?

+1 The adoption should lock all previous logs. By not allowing the new coin owner to make the coin their own by getting rid of the old logs, would kill the incentive for buying preactivated coins. I know I would not buy anymore. I think that when a coin is adopted over to a new owner, the new owner should have the option to remove All Previous Logs if they wish. Again, this isn't making any sense to me. I too have bought many preactivated coins. Well over 50 of them. And starting with fresh logs was not even a consideration when buying them. The motivation for me tends to be the reduced purchase price, not that ability to start with a clean log sheet. As I said before, no matter what I do with the coin, I can not change who has moved or seen the coin. My deleting those logs changes nothing except what motivated the people who moved or discovered that coin to do so in the first place, and that in and of itself makes any coin log deletions an unfair practice.

+1 I have purchased MANY pre activated geocoins, If the coin has logs on it showing it has been moved by other Geocachers and has gained miles, then I will leave the logs, but if the coin was only taken to events and discovered, well those logs get deleted so that I can start the coin on a whole new journey with a new activation date and a new starting point. As the Coin owner, I like having that option and if this option is taken away, well I would not seek buying older coins anymore, to me that would devalue them even more then they already are. The adoption should lock all previous logs. By not allowing the new coin owner to make the coin their own by getting rid of the old logs, would kill the incentive for buying preactivated coins. I know I would not buy anymore. I think that when a coin is adopted over to a new owner, the new owner should have the option to remove All Previous Logs if they wish. I am in the opposite camp. I have bought several activated coins and wouldn't dream of deleting the logs. They are the fingerprint that makes each coin unique I have purchased MANY pre activated geocoins, If the coin has logs on it showing it has been moved by other Geocachers and has gained miles, then I will leave the logs, but if the coin was only taken to events and discovered, well those logs get deleted so that I can start the coin on a whole new journey with a new activation date and a new starting point. As the Coin owner, I like having that option and if this option is taken away, well I would not seek buying older coins anymore, to me that would devalue them even more then they already are. Your logic doesn't make any sense. If someone moves it, the log stays. If someone sees the coin at an event, the log goes. Why? It's not going to hurt my feelings if you don't buy activated geocoins anymore, so your using that as a point in favor of allowing deletions of logs on previously owned coins is not going to work over here.

I am quite aware of that. Every time some goober gets a badge, it makes the rest of us look bad. Especially to the mindless mooks who equate the actions of one goober with the morals of all, as in, "All you cops do is..." But statistics are on our side, as there are better odds for a Priest to go bad than for a cop to go bad. But in a situation where you are only a passing witness, such as the OP, I can't believe that anyone would be so paranoid as to believe even the most evil cop would cause them problems. Had the OP been up to something shady, (not necessarilly illegal), then I might understand their fear of involving law enforcement, but they were doing something perfectly legal, in a place they were presumably allowed to be. I see it as akin to me walking across the parking lot to Walmart and finding a purse in the bushes. Why would I fear interaction with law enforcement, over something like that? Because sadly, the job of the police officer has evolved from "protect and serve", to "make money off of the public." That is why, in situations that it's not absolutely imperative that I stick around and involve myself with the police in any way, despite my being a perfectly legal, law abiding citizen, I simply won't do it. Your first paragraph there reminds me of something that I've heard from quite a few other professions as well. Apparently it's running rampant. As a pilot, I don't want to fly with a moron who paid for his training and that's the only reason he got the job. I want to fly with the guy who got his job because he's a solid pilot that I can depend on. My brother the fireman has the same to say about young firemen and nepotism. This seemingly growing trend does not strike me as a particularly good thing.

Well, if anyone decides to put this up for suggestion and needs some backers, link to it here. I'd happily add to the testimony. I too would be pretty peeved if someone deleted one of my boring logs on a coin for no reason.

You could never fathom? I've read a lot of your posts, and it really does sound like you're a particularly nice guy, and probably a good cop. But if it hasn't hit you yet that not all in your profession are part of the good guys, you may need to look a little closer.

Completely disagree here Droo. It is his coin to do with as he wishes and I really don't think that courtesy or civility fits in here. There are instances in life where items are bought and sold and no where does a statement like this exist. Maybe I should talk about one that jumps to mind. My parents were trying to sell their home. A neighbor came over to tell my 85 y/o mother to think of the neighbors before she decides who to sell to. No one asked her for her wishes/veto power like they were asking her when another neighbor sold to a family of literally juvenile deliquents. Is it common courtesy to think of neighbor's wishes when trying to sell your home? Why are coins any different? If I buy a house that some kid put their hand print and initials in the cement sidewalk do I have to save that chunk of driveway so their mark lasts forever? After all it is a history of the house and previous occupants. If I buy a car with airbrushed flames on it shouldn't I be able to have it repainted even though the artist worked hours on it? (I did see a flamed out ptcruiser a few years ago I would have liked. ) Sure I can and without any reservations. Again why are coins different? I should say here that I have bought several activated coins over the years and haven't deleted any logs. For the most part I don't care. However, I have deleted logs on a few coins I activated myself when I didn't think they were appropiate. This analogy isn't really applicable to the situation at hand unfortunately. Logging a find on a geocache, and having to live next door to someone are completely different things, not even remotely comparable. What is up for comparison is the fact that a number of people actually discovered a coin. The changing of ownership does not change the fact that those people discovered the coin. Now, if your Moms neighbor had asked her to not delete the memories of people who had lived in the house prior to it being sold, then I could see the comparison. You can't change who lived in a house though, no more than you can change who discovered a coin. Owners will change, but the discoveries do not.

Thats awesome G&C I actually grew up in Riverside, and lived in Perris for my high school years. Found some caches around the Perris/Sun City area last June when I went to visit family, nothing extreme though :\ That was one heck of a good time. I definitely recommend it if you come back next year for a visit.

GC2MWMM The Fire from Within

I don't have much interaction with moderators, and I very much doubt that very many of us do. I tend to think that moderator intervention happens with most very seldom, and a few are the main cause of the moderators daily problems. As a result, I would hope that when questions start rolling out about their behavior, such as threads like these, it would get paid attention to by somebody. My opinion is that reaction to customer complaints tells a lot about a business and what it thinks of its clientele.

On a related note, how do you change the email address that your GS emails go to? ETA: Nevermind, I figured out what I was doing wrong. Got it!

I had several envelopes in my mail today, and I was hopeful, but alas, nothing as of yet.

No change here.

Their geocaching stuff is definitely over priced. I don't buy much of it from them. But as far as overall gear is concerned, it's pretty much always between them, backcountry.com (who has the same no questions asked return policy), and Moosejaw (who has prices that beat them both from time to time, minus the return policy unfortunately). Most often I shop at REI because they're right down the street, and I don't have to wait out shipping times. Anything goes wrong, and the item is replaced and refunded, no questions asked. Can't beat it. This isn't really a fair way of looking at things. How was anyone; REI employee, purchaser, etc., to know that those boots would rub his ankle wrong? They might not have been the wrong boots at all, just a pair with a bad seam or something. A different pair of the same boots could be serving him faithfully to this day for all we know.

Joined: 11-1-11 Name recieved: A long time ago... Card Sent: 12-14-11 Card recieved:

Thank you mystery coin giver! Wow, from the looks of this thread, someone was in a very generous and giving mood.

I feel differently about that. I see a coin the same as a cache. When found (or rather moved or discovered), an owner cannot just remove the log. It would be something else if it was a virtual log. In that case the logger has never seen the coin. But once you have seen it, held it in your hands, the log should not be removed. I agree with you, in theory. But in reality, it truly is the choice of the coin owner. As in, that's just how it works. Unfortunately feeling has nothing to do with it.

Yea, it happens. I don't much care for it either, but it is the choice of the coin owner to do so if he/she pleases. It doesn't happen with any of my coins. When mine get lost and replaced or proxied, the history remains.

I'm searching for a Sea Shepherd geocoin. Unactivated or activated, any finish. Trade or cash, you tell me. This has been a very long search, so any help would definitely be appreciated. Thanks!