DragonflyTotem

Oh that is absolutely hysterical!

Unfortunately, even though the cache is listed as active, nobody can log the cache: "The listing has been locked and is not accepting new log entries." I believe if you can prove to Groundspeak that you actually made it to the cache and logged it, they will unlock it for you to log your find. C'mon, let me prove it to you. What's $25 million between friends total strangers? But wait a second, does GS require or even ask for proof of a find for any other cache? Aside from that, isn't there something about being placed in a building that the general public doesn't have access to? Or what about placing a cache where you'd most likely need to first pass a security clearance. I'm just saying...(not really debating the point, just having fun).

Or more frightening -- perhaps it was muggled and it's a giant conspiracy to keep us from finding out that there is an inter-galactic muggling group working their way through the universe!

We have folks here who not only rush out for the FTF, but then they don't log it online for days, simply because they say that doing so discourages someone else from looking for it (meaning that they believe that if others believe that the FTF is still in play, others will be more interested in looking for it). So you have lots of caches around here where although someone has in the log claimed the FTF, it won't show on the cache listing itself for days.

Unfortunately, even though the cache is listed as active, nobody can log the cache: "The listing has been locked and is not accepting new log entries."

I trolled through the forum for ideas and suggestions before putting my bag of tricks together and here are some of the things that I carry in my Tamrac bag (camera type bag that I can sling or carry): - Leatherman 831104 - grabbing thing (3' long, small grab claw at the end) (ebay) - magnetic TOTT (extendable to 36") (ebay) - 20" American Science & Surplus telescoping mini-rake (amazon) - GearWrench double-x 45 degree 10" hemostat (amazon) - GearWrench double-x straight 10" hemostat (amazon) - Tweezerman 4" stainless steel splinter remover (amazon) - Sheffield 14-1 hammer multi tool (home depot) - hiking stick (3 pieces, screws together) (ebay) - gloves (1 set generic heavy leather, 1 set "Firm Grip" water resistant, 1 set "Performance Select" with rough fingers for wet grabbing) - Ullman 2.25x3.5 LED Lighted Telescoping 6-30" Inspection Mirror HTK2LT (ebay) Other misc. stuff includes a lot of what everyone else would mention -- nylon braided line, magnets, bandaids, deet spray, maglight, log rolling tools, spare logs, zip lock bags. Edited to add one I forgot

All good advice but it undermines the concept of "innocent until proven guilty", the spirit of the US constitution, and reinforces the degradation of the concept that the police are our servants and not our gatekeepers. The important thing to consider is that if you aren't doing anything illegal then the police are YOUR servant. Bowing down to an overzealous cop might be the "right" thing to do in the moment but it's also the wrong thing to do in the grand scheme of things. Wow. Getting a bit OT I think, but you'd be hard pressed to find the definition of "police" to include being "YOUR servant" as at least in the U.S. the role of the police is to enforce the law, protect property and prevent civil disorder. I can recall pretty clearly from classes taken that the police don't serve anyone.

You're not suggesting that you have fit one of these into a nano blinkie are you??? Or a mini bison??? Trying to imagine any nano that I've seen fitting one as they pretty much are filled to the max with the log alone. Not only has the tiny chainmail ball fit into those blinkies or mini bison tubes, but I've even gotten one into a hollowed-out bolt, and had one sitting sandwiched inbetween several sheets of log-paper behind a magnet. In each of those that I've seen (except the magnet), on either the cap or at the bottom of the container there's usually an 'indent' as the inside of the container tapers down to nothing. That, which the log scroll will not fit into, this ball will. It's maybe a millimeter thick at its thickest where the rings overlap. For the blinkies for example, I'd typically sign the logscroll, roll it up, balance the nano ball on top of the log scroll and then screw it shut. And technically, I have a few 'limited edition' titanium mobius balls that make the nano one here look big, just in case . The rings are about 1/3rd the size in the titanium one. When I say I've never NOT left a signature item in a cache container, I mean it. Of course, this doesn't include virtuals or earthcaches since neither of those actually have a container or log to sign. If it has a log book/paper/something-to-sign, a chainmail ball has accompanied it. Also, I leave them at events for whoever is there to take Still find it hard to imagine that there is that kind of space in the blinkie that I've got sitting in front of me as I just put a tiny slip of paper on top of the log, screwed the top on, unscrewed it and can clearly see the pressure markings on it from the lid. But I have to say honestly, that if I'd found one of these stuffed down into one of those taper tubes or such of mine...that I'd be ticked about it. I mean, clearly nanos weren't intended to have other stuff stuck in there! (yikes, one more thing to have to add to the cache description -- to not put anything else into the container!).

I haven't seen one inside myself, but a quick google brings up lots of sites (particularly governmental at some level) which discusses getting permissions and rules for placing them inside buildings. And there is the one cache inside the space station....technically a building I'd think?

You're not suggesting that you have fit one of these into a nano blinkie are you??? Or a mini bison??? Trying to imagine any nano that I've seen fitting one as they pretty much are filled to the max with the log alone.

Huh, learn something new everyday. I've seen pathtags but guess that I missed the class on signature items as it seems that these serve a different purpose? I'm not really clear on the reason for choosing to have one over the other -- how is a signature item used differently than a pathtag?

At the risk of NOT going off-topic, why not look at just the topic IN Off-Topic: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=246667 Yeah, had already seen that but it's not quite the same topic. Was about guns vs. anti-guns, and not centered around whether or not folks geocache with their weapon.

Drug drop locations are such because people generally don't frequent the area. Adding geocaches would add traffic. Adding traffic makes them less desirable for nefarious purposes. Geocachers shouldn't avoid those places but they should be careful. You might think that but from what I've learned from the ride alongs, in addition to what was presented at the citizens police academy, is that they want areas that have enough traffic so that anyone coming by doesn't stick out the way they would if nobody was in the area. As I understand it, it's more about whether they're bothered by the police in an area than whether you or I come to it, and I doubt that they're going to cede an area just because some folks with GPS show up (and perhaps they might even consider you invading their turf). Personally, if a police officer tells me that he/she wouldn't themselves geocache in a particular area I think then that I'll avoid it myself.

Note to self... Wash rear quarter panel(s) of vehicle... I've thought of this too so when the police show up I ALWAYS make sure the GPS is visible as a GPS. I hold it by the sides. Another "interesting" thing I learned...as we would drive along I'd point out areas that I knew had caches. The scary part was when they'd sometimes tell me that if they were me, they'd avoid some of those places as they are known drug drops, high crime areas with lots of assaults and such. And they even shared some things about pay phones that have had me put those on my lists of caches that I probably won't go after. So LEO has lots on their mind when they see us all by ourselves, doing some things that look like they could be bad things (finding/re-hiding caches could sure look like you're looking for a drug drop). At the risk of hijacking this thread all of this has had me thinking about whether or not I carry my own weapon when caching. I have a concealed weapons permit, and you can open carry in Virginia anyway. But on the one hand have been out by myself thinking that my gun would be welcome, but on the other hand thought that seeing that would simply heighten the tension. So I wonder how many of us to carry our weapons when caching.

Hey!! I LIKE that idea!! You know what's funny is that many people think that when the police arrive near you you are to stop what you are doing and stand at attention. The US isn't a military wstablishment and people are supposed to be free. Until the police have a valid reason to detain you, you are free to pursue your happiness. Of course your life can become quite miserable while you are attempting to assert your freedom so keep that in mind. Having said all that, I have run from the police before just to mess with them. I wasn't doing anything wrong but the cop saw me running so he took off after me. I don't know what he told everyone else but, at least, I know he never caught me so he will never know that I ran just to mess with him. Of course there is the other time where everyone else ran and I didn't. The cop asked why I didn't run too and I just said "Cuz I didn't do anything illegal" and that was that. Serious this time....I hear what you're saying and not saying I disagree with you, but....every few months I spend a 10 hour shift riding with LEO here. One thing that really really hit home with me is that they are taught that when they stop a vehicle and are then walking up to it, they run their hand up the rear quarter-panel of the vehicle. I asked why. Was told that it was because if something very bad happens then at least they have left some of their DNA and prints on the vehicle. So, yes I have the right to be doing what I'm doing when caching....but every situation is a potentially dangerous one for the LEO...and I'd prefer to not be a part of that. Safer to just politely explain what I'm doing. BTW....every time I'm riding with a LEO I take the time to explain geocaching to them. All officers have thought it was quite interesting (one even went with me to find a cache!), but not one of them had heard of it before and until I showed them they thought that perhaps I was yanking their chain. So they truly have no idea of what you are REALLY doing...just lots of ideas of what you MIGHT be doing (and many if not most of those would be bad things). And one thing that I've thought about...at night, holding the right kind of GPS in your hand, looks a little bit like a small gun (antenna looking like a barrel).

I think that it is telling that they say that they will press charges against you. I'm pretty sure that in a case like this that copyright infringement is a civil matter. So they can sue you, but don't think that they can "press charges" against you. Regardless why go through the hassle...just come up with something else.

Actually, I think that if you wait for you to be discovered while caching, its too late. I suggest walking in to your nearest police precinct and plunk down a nice big 50 cal. ammo can on the counter. And ask to speak with someone because you think that you need to tell them about these things that you've been hiding all around the area. Someone will certainly be more than happy to help you out.

If that ever happens again, immediately take off running towards GZ. That way the cop will have a reason to get out and run, thus working off some of the extra Krispy Kremes he had for breakfast. Of course you could have a lot of fun talking witht the other hostages in the cell at the station and the lawyer might be expensive but if you win the lawsuit you might just come out ahead. Remember, as your defense, tell the authorities that there are quite a few cops who are geocachers and you were just trying to beat him to the FTF. No your Honor, I wasn't resisting arrest. I just didn't like that they were geocaching while on their shift, and using their squad car spot lights to light up GZ. Well yes, I did get a little suspicious when they put me in handcuffs in the back of the cruiser....but we all know that FTF hounds will go to almost any length. And so that's why I had to kick the window out. But really, it was just unfair to expect me cache after being 'tazed like that! And I sincerely hope that your Honor will take that into consideration in deciding who gets the FTF.

While I agree with this in theory, I take it to task as many decent locations for larger caches are taken up by nanos and micros. I'm getting tired of good spots for micros getting taken up by those giant trash collectors known as ammo cans. Well said.......I actually have no size preference but if you can conceal an ammo can its obviously a great spot to hide a challanging micro. As has been said, due to downtrading an ammo can has become an easier to find, harder to hide, container full of trash...ther're still fun though and can move TB's. Yup, agree and pretty much what I'd said in the other/most recent/latest anti-micro thread.

And what has the bail usually been set at in the morning after the hearing? No bail will get you out when they lock you in the psyc ward until the experts can determine you are not a danger to yourself or others. Not really, thats only in Florida where they "Baker Act" you for 72 hours or so. Everywhere else they just search your car, and let ya go. And here, crazy takes more paperwork. Easier to say disturbing the peace and/or resisting.

Okay, I'm clearly confused. I understand that the caches cost money. But I thought that the unspoken and unwritten rule on the guidance of the concept was that for every dollar you have in a cache, you are allowed an equivalent number of "found it" logs. Or did I get that vague rumor wrong from my dog?

And what has the bail usually been set at in the morning after the hearing?

But it also does go on to say: "(e.g. container is cracked, logbook is full or wet), please post a "Needs Maintenance" log on the cache page so the cache owner and the community is notified." Specifically saying to log a NM if the logbook is full. Devil's Advocate: I've only been caching for eight months but how I figured out that you can use both sides was seeing signatures on both sides. I don't mean to sound like I'm dense or such, but until I saw my first log that had blank back sides (meaning no lines) all I'd seen were logs with lines on the front and back and signatures on the front and back. For all I knew perhaps the CO didn't want signatures on the backside of a log that lacked lines. That was long before I found caches where others had added pieces of "emergency logs" for when they'd found it full. So perhaps some cachers simply don't know that they are "allowed" to log on the back.

I think that it can be perfectly appropriate for anyone to log a NM if the cache isn't found -- newbie or not. Providing that they actually believe that a cache is missing. And that of course is the rub isn't it? That someone/anyone would assume that a newbie wouldn't have enough experience to determine that the cache is missing vs. a veteran cacher with thousands of finds. I'm NOT suggesting that simply because a cache isn't found that a NM should be posted. I am trying to suggest that even a newbie **could** get to the cache site, see the obvious geotrail to the hide spot, find no cache and draw a logical conclusion that the cache is not there. AND I'm saying that even experienced cachers have posted NM based on their DNF, and that the assumption is (often) that because they are experienced that the cache must of course be gone....and when that has happened to me I found that the cache was in fact still there. Frankly as a CO I'd rather have a NM than not know. And I think that at least some CO's pay attention to a NM but might not read a simple "found it" log emailed to them. But I think that if someone posts a NM based on not finding the cache then additional information should be given - e.g., "Found the likely spot where the cache seemed to have been located and it wasn't there." or "Found a pencil and what might be swag remnants so you might need to check this one."

You tell them the truth. Show them your GPS, explain what geocaching is, and tell them that you're looking for it. Assuming that you're not trespassing or otherwise breaking a law they most likely simply want to make sure that you're not doing something you shouldn't be doing.