PFF

Hey Art..... Good catch. It appears that the rather substantial check GEOCAC sent (to pay your moving expenses from WASHDC to Missouri) was money well spent! -Paul- P.S. You DID get the check, didn't you? The bookkeeper says it has not cleared the bank.

Glad to see some reports! At least we know they are working on it. -Paul-

Let's re-group. It is unfortunate if the comments in the thread gave that impression. Logging with NGS is serious business. It should be done only after one has some experience using the actual NGS data sheets (versus the ones on geocaching.com); and, specific guidelines must be followed. Regarding the current thread: Only include coordinates in the recovery report under one of these circumstances: *The current NGS data sheet has SCALED coordinates. *The current NGS data sheet has ADJUSTED coordinates and you are confident they are in error. Use DDD MM SS.S format. Always proof your work--especially coordinates. The system used by kayakbird is excellent because it reduces the chances of a "typo". I do something similar. I compose my NGS recovery notes in WORD, and then I cut-paste onto the NGS form. Before going to the NGS site, I log my finds on geocaching.com, using my WORD document as a guide. Sometimes during the process of entering the text and photos on the hobby site, I discover an error. I make the correction in WORD. Then, when I feel confident that it's right, I go to NGS and make my entries. When composing in WORD, I put the "not found" entries first, followed by "poor". Then I do those in "good" condition. With lines between the categories, I'm not likely to click the wrong button on the NGS form. The WORD document also has notations about marks which are not suitable for satellite observations. You are allowed some freedom regarding placement of the HH2 coordinates. I put mine at the end of the recovery report. See the sample, below. (Condition is "good" unless otherwise noted.) -Paul- BENCHMARK RECOVERY SEPTEMBER 18 2010 EZ0082 NC 35 NOT FOUND NOT FOUND IN A 30 MINUTE SEARCH WITH A METAL DETECTOR. THE REFERENCED SIGN IS GONE. THE CEMENT BRIDGE HAS BEEN REPLACED. THE NEW BRIDGE MAY BE SLIGHTLY WEST OF THE ORIGINAL SITE, BASED UPON A 1937 SURVEY SHOWING THE ROAD AND BRIDGE. (SEE BOOK OF MAPS 1946-75, WAKE COUNTY REGISTRY.) EZ0079 NC 36 RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION BETWEEN THE CURB AND SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF HOUSE NO. 3340. THE ORIGINAL SCHOOL HAS BEEN TORN DOWN AND A NEW SCHOOL HAS BEEN BUILT ON THE SITE. ADD THAT MARK IS 51.2 FEET NORTHWEST OF A PHONE PEDESTAL RECENTLY PLACED AT THE CORNER OF WENDELL BLVD AND N. MAGNOLIA ST. HH2 GPS COORDINATES N35 47 04.6 W078 22 20.3. (NOTE. THE 1976 RECOVERY REPORT DESCRIBES THE AZIMUTH MARK.) AA7902 CASTLE CREEK RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION. THE STATION IS AN –X IN THE CENTER OF THE ALUMINUM PLATE. GW2564 AMHERST 364 RECOVERED AS DESCRIBED AT MILEPOST 57.6 ON THE BLUE RIDGE PARKWAY. ADD THAT MARK IS APPROX 36 FEET WEST OF THE EAST END OF A GRASSY TRAFFIC ISLAND. GW2499 3 MLS RECOVERED AS DESCRIBED. ADD THAT MARK IS APPROXIMATELY 3 FEET ABOVE THE ROAD. GW2105 18 RAK USGS (NOT SUITABLE) RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION. HH2 GPS COORDINATES N37 27 11.3 W079 15 40.6.

I agree about the time sequence. I see that the coordinates for CI5736 were obtained with a consumer-grade handheld GPS unit. Also, this is one of those rare NGS data sheets which has photographs of the station. From the pictures, we know that the MN DOT representative uses a Garmin and drives a vehicle which is ideal for benchmark hunting. I doubt that the operator ever gets challenged by a land owner. By the way, I've had several of those Garmin "bean bag" dash mounts during the past decade. They work very well. Besides making it easy to swap vehicles, I like being able to keep it off the dashboard, except when hunting. This prevents the Sun from burning a pattern into the dash. -Paul-

Hi Bill, Excellent point. I often find this to be the case when a Reference Mark was added to the Triangulation Station at a later date--which is precisely the situation you described. -Paul-

True, the disk may last longer than you. But hopefully you will be around for a long time, also. Perhaps we can come up with a prediction about this. Here is a list of common disk descriptions. Do any of these apply to you? *Lying on the ground *Leaning *Surface badly scratched from encounters with things passing by *Parts missing And, perhaps the most likely condition in today's Economy: *Poor

Hi Pitcom: Let me echo Shirley's comments. Based on the date stamped on the disk (2008), we know it is not in the geocaching.com data base. Our most recent disks are from the Year 2000--and that's a partial year. This survey marker was set by the highway department. I doubt that it has been submitted to the master database maintained by the National Geodetic Survey. Your option for logging this is to create an entry on Waymarking.com. (Use your geocaching.com user name and password .) There is a category for benchmarks which cannot be logged on geocaching.com. You will need the coordinates from your GPS receiver, and be prepared to write a description of the setting, as well as directions to the site from some well-known landmark or highway intersection. You will have the opportunity to upload photos, and the two posted above will be excellent. This is a great find. Keep up the good work! -Paul-

Thanks for the info, Jim. Hopefully, the activity from July 27th is an indication that progress is being made. Here in the Carolina's, I see 40 to 60 recovery reports per month from NCGS and SCGS, but these agencies can upload directly. (Rank has its privileges--grin.) -Paul-

Good point, Wintertime. The fellow also marked OA0502 destroyed, based upon not being found by NGS in 1987. As Paul Harvey would say, "Here's the REST of the story." (Like Bill93, I also sent him a note requesting that he refrain from logging without looking.) -Paul- OA0502 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By OA0502 HISTORY - 1941 MONUMENTED CGS OA0502 HISTORY - 1970 MARK NOT FOUND NGS OA0502 HISTORY - 1987 MARK NOT FOUND NGS OA0502 HISTORY - 19940630 GOOD USPSQD OA0502 HISTORY - 20011102 GOOD USPSQD OA0502 HISTORY - 20050408 GOOD USPSQD OA0502 HISTORY - 20061006 GOOD USPSQD OA0502 OA0502 STATION DESCRIPTION OA0502 OA0502'DESCRIBED BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1970 OA0502'IN COOS BAY. OA0502'AT NORTH BEND, COOS COUNTY, AT A PRIVATE RESIDENCE AT 2264 SOUTH OA0502'MCPHERSON AVENUE, ON THE SOUTH EDGE OF LAWN, AND 12 FEET WEST OF THE OA0502'EDGE OF THE SIDEWALK. A STANDARD DISK STAMPED F 468 1941 AND SET IN OA0502'THE TOP OF CONCRETE POST FLUSH WITH GROUND. NOTE-- THE SIDEWALK IS OA0502'BROKEN UP IN CERTAIN SECTIONS. OA0502 OA0502 STATION RECOVERY (2001) OA0502 OA0502 RECOVERY NOTE BY US POWER SQUADRON 2001 (AES) OA0502'LAWN HAS BEEN LANDSCAPED WITH BARK. MARK IS 3 FEET NORTH OF CONCRETE OA0502'DRIVEWAY AND FLUSH WITH SURFACE ABOUT 6 INCHES ABOVE DRIVEWAY. OA0502'SIDEWALK NOTED AS BROKEN IN 1970 HAS BEEN REPLACED.

Good question. And welcome to the forum. Our database contains only benchmarks in the United States. If you find a benchmark in Europe (or elsewhere), you can log it on Waymarking.com. Sign on under the same user name and password you use on geocaching.com. Waymarking.com includes many objects besides benchmarks, so be sure to look through the category list to find the most appropriate place to log what you find. Hope this is helpful. -Paul-

I think you're right, Jim. Or, to put it another way, you'll have time for a 2nd cup of coffee during the next download....and maybe a third. -Paul-

Hello, Everyone. Here is an update from Deb Brown about what has been going on -Paul- -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: GEOCAC Recovery Reports. Date: Fri, August 27, 2010 10:51 am Hi Paul, Please put the word out that the recovery LOADING program has been out of service for the last 9 weeks. NOT the submittal program, the one I use to get the recoveries onto the datasheets. The issue was resolved on Wednesday and I tested the program with success yesterday. Starting today I'm going to be loading the now huge backlog and hopefully it'll work without any further need for adjustments. Please tell everyone I didn't forget them and "Thank you" for their patience. deb

On my Nuvi, the downloaded waypoints appear under EXTRA. They are not visible under ALL FAVORITES. I'm not using the same model, but I suspect your's is similar. -Paul-

Excellent question. It is not a benchmark. A "monitoring well" is a well drilled at a specific location for the purpose of testing water quality in the area. Or, it may be used for checking the height of the water table; i.e., how far below ground can you find water. A typical example of the first use is detecting groundwater contamination--especially if a Leaking Underground Storage Tank (L.U.S.T.) is know to have been in the vicinity. Multiple monitoring wells are laid out in a manner to follow the water flow, so it can be determined how far and/or wide the contamination pattern is. As for the second use, there are areas of the Country where massive amounts of groundwater are being extracted for municipal or agricultural purposes. It is important to monitor the effect on the water table. If it drops too low, residential wells may be left "high and dry". Bottom line: When you see a monitoring well, watch out! It may indicate that someone has a LUST problem. -Paul-

Don't even THINK of retiring. They'll get to the uploads, eventually. The way the month ended on Saturday was a little awkward. It's possible they will do the uploads tomorrow (Friday). -Paul-

I'm the other North Carolina "Paul", and I do mine the same way. A report might go like this: HIGHWAY 117 HAS BEEN REROUTED. THE REFERENCED ROAD IS NOW GOLDSBORO ROAD. DELETE THE 17-INCH OAK AND THE MOBILE HOME, WHICH NO LONGER EXIST. ADD THAT THE MARK IS 43.2 FEET SSW OF POWER POLE 8FP521 WITH TRANSFORMER, 33.2 FEET WEST OF A WATER METER COVER, AND 6.3 FEET EAST OF THE TOP OF A TELEPHONE PEDESTAL. THE MARK IS NOW RECESSED 2 INCHES (NO LONGER FLUSH WITH THE GROUND). When creating your entry, begin with the longest measurement, and finish the description with the shortest measurement. Don't forget to check the measurement to the centerline of the road--especially at intersections. Over the time span you described (60 years), the pavement may have been realigned to accommodate today's wider cars and higher speeds. -PFF-

I think it's great when our group can bring a mark "back from the dead". Some of our members have been successful in several instances. However, when sending the information to Deb, be certain to include any observations which might be clues that the physical attributes of the mark have changed in some way. While it may may seem unusual, a mark can still exist and yet be destroyed. Common examples: *A mark may have been pulled from the ground and put into another hole, nearby. See EZ2860. *A mark was in a cement sidewalk which was torn up and re-poured, and the helpful contractor replaced the disk in the new sidewalk. See EZ6531. *The previous description of the setting does not agree with what you observe, today. See EZ5324. *The mark is in a building which appears to have been moved. See FA0533. *The place where you found a mark does not agree with the published description. See EY1267. *Upon close examination of the ground around the monument, it is obvious that the station has been disturbed. See FX4853. Actually, these types of things are looked for in every recovery by our members who report to NGS. But it is especially important if a station is to be resurrected. I hope this is helpful. -Paul-

SASPAMCO AZ MK 1265403.7 The box score seldom gives the distance to the Azimuth Mark, but the bearing is very accurate. It helps to know that Azimuth Marks usually are along a highway's right-of-way. Here's how to pull these characteristics together to create a set of coordinates: Bring up the main station location in GoogleEarth. Hold an index card or protractor on the screen at 126.5 degrees. Look for where the projected line crosses the referenced road. Put the cursor at this point and write down the coordinates which are in the lower left corner of your screen. Enter these into your GPS, and you can drive to the correct spot. As an alternative, you can drive along the road until your GPS unit indicates that you are 126.5 degrees from the main station. At that point, you are very close. Read the description to determine whether to look toward the left shoulder or to the right. Happy hunting! -Paul-

Perhaps the date was sanded off because this is not REALLY a World War II item. I am somewhat familiar with WW2 weapons. But what would you do with this? Throw it at the enemy? Or is it some kind of Secret Decoding Wheel? -Paul-

This appears on the data sheet, although I don't know how to interpret it: "The horizontal coordinates were established by differentially corrected hand held GPS obs and have an estimated accuracy of +/- 3 meters." By the way, you did a great job with the new description! -Paul-

It's good that this subject comes up, occasionally. Here's what our group has been told: Do not clean benchmarks. Period. It is acceptable to use water, a toothbrush, paper towel, etc., to remove mud so you can read the stamping. As mentioned above, an application of baby powder will make the stamping visible in a photograph. Corn starch works equally well. Both substances are safe and will not harm the metal. And that's where we stop. We don't polish 'em, or apply protective coatings. We report them as leaning (when appropriate), but we don't try to "fix" them. It's tempting. I spent four years at sea and I've got a lot of experience with the amazing BRASSO liquid. But we must honor this position by the monumenting agencies. If it's any consolation, the head of the North Carolina Geodetic Survey has a station (GARY T) in the front yard of his personal residence, and even that disk does not get polished. (But I notice the grass is always neatly edged around it. [Grin.] -Paul-

My survey arrived via E-Mail on Friday, April 23rd. Like others, I made reference to the benchmark hunting Forum, when possible. Since the issue of updating the database had been covered by others, I went with the "motivational" approach for my final entry: Your support of benchmark hunting is greatly appreciated. It is appropriate to be on the geocaching site, since many caches are near benchmarks. As a result, many folks have expanded their hobby to include benchmark hunting. It's convenient and educational to have both aspects on one site. In supporting benchmarks, the site is providing an additional service to the primary users.

Excellent answer, Patty. There are some interesting challenges built into this cache (such as using a station with SCALED coordinates which are 300 feet off). However, giving the PIDs might have been a better introduction to benchmark hunting. -Paul-

LOL! Bill hit a home run with that comment! Seriously, I figured it was my ADD which caused me to become frustrated with the pace of the show. (I almost didn't make it through the football segment in the beginning.) Glad to know I wasn't the only one who wanted them to get to the point! The period surveyors were great--and it was impressive to hear how many Big Names from our Nation's past were surveyors. (Also, that was interesting trivia about the folks on Mt. Rushmore.) The stories about the states were interesting, too....just spaced too widely apart. I think I'll purchase the book. -Paul- A very inspirational story about ADD: "So This Is What Normal Feels Like."

Part of living in a free country is accepting some limitation about what you can say. Or, as the late Paul Harvey used to put it: "Self-Government does not work without Self-Discipline." It is common knowledge that you cannot impersonate a law enforcement officer. Likewise, benchmark hunters cannot imply that they are surveyors. Surveyors have entry rights under state laws, and it is like saying, "I can go on your land, whether you like it or not." -Paul- A tip worth repeating: When you must knock on a door, immediately step away a minimum of ten feet to fifteen feet. If the door is on an elevated porch, knock and then quickly go to ground level. Putting space between you and the door demonstrates to the occupant that you are not a sales person, nor do you intend to "rush" the person and get inside.