Cagey Jadiesse

There are a lot of houses in town that don't make the city look very good. But before the city can tear them down, they have to first condemn them. It's not fun looking at them in the meantime but there is a process. Big difference. The cache "owner" has no legal "ownership" of the cache.

It's not litter as long as it is listed. There will be others looking for it. Plus, it's someone else's property. If it is archived, and abandoned ( not listed anywhere else) and no response from the owner, then PLEASE pick it up! The exception would be if you came across a busted container and the contents were laying all over the place. If I found that, I would probably bag everything up and try contacting the owner to return everything. So would I. However.... If the CO hasn't responded to NMs and hasn't logged on in say, 9 months, what would you do? For the record, I have NEVER removed a cache. In fact, we have replaced EVERYTHING (container, log) at a cache that was obviously not going to ever get any maintenance. In principle, however, can the caching community really judge someone for cleaning up an obviously unmaintained trash-of-a-cache when the community itself doesn't do a thing to remedy the obviously real problem?

I've seen this a lot. Really? If I take a tupperware container out into a State Park and leave it in a tree branch, is it still legally mine?

Alright. Well, I pretty much totally disagree with the timeline. I guess, in the long run, it'll work out. I just have a difficult time grasping how advertising and inviting people to come to an area and search for a hidden stash of trash can have any positive impact on this hobby. "Hey! Let me introduce you to this great hobby! .... Yeah, they're all that way ... Hmmm. Can you write your name on that leaf over there? CAREFUL! Don't cut yourself on the container!"

So we leave litter in a park until we are told to clean it up. Got it.

Or even BEFORE it's archived. It is no longer a cache. Wrong. OK. Uhhh. Right! If there is no reasonably usable log book, there is no cache. You can put a fresh log in yourself, if you wish to, and are so equipped, but until the reviewer or cache owner archives the cache, you do not simply walk off with it, if for no better reason than that others may go looking for it. Seriously? You're the commish in this game. You're gonna leave this garbage out there for new cachers to find? Look at the logs for this cache. How many veteran "community cachers" came across this piece of garbage, happily logged a find (with a note re: log condition, granted), yet didn't do a THING to fix it up? Over how many YEARS?! Is this how you're going to run your league? This is what you want to be a second "find" by a new cacher? This is better than a string of DNFs?

Or even BEFORE it's archived. It is no longer a cache. Wrong. OK. Uhhh. Right! If there is no reasonably usable log book, there is no cache.

As a parent with sons in Scouts, I can say unequivocally, albeit anecdotally, that BSA doesn't really "get" geocaching. According to the BSA: " * GPS units work well, and several retailers offer discounts to Scout groups. There are also several geocaching apps for the iPhone, and some other cell phones work too. You'll also need a map and compass. The technology only takes you so far. When you get closer to a cache site, traditional orienteering skills come into play. * To build a cache, all you need is a piece of paper to serve as a log book, Scouting goods like patches and photos, and a plastic container. If you're resourceful, it might not cost you anything at all." There seems to be a discounting of the history of geocaching (i.e. the community) and a bit of look-down-the-nosedness regarding the technology involved. That's too bad. I think the two fit very well together. I think there needs to be a lot more dialog between local BSA orgs and local geocaching orgs to get it right.

Or even BEFORE it's archived. It is no longer a cache.

"Easy is the path to wisdom for those not blinded by themselves" I got that from the internet.

Or.... "I am a person, and my name is Anakin." "I had a dream that I was a Jedi. I came back here and found all the caches." "Anakin, this cache has been placed before you. The choice is yours alone." "Now this is geocaching!" "Clouded, this cacher's future is." "The search is dangerous. They all sense it, why can't you?" "I'm a geocacher, you know." "Well, I should be! Some day I will be... I will be the most powerful geocacher ever! I promise you!" "I have a bad feeling about this." "Oh, not again! Obi-Wan's gonna kill me." "I'm tired of all this. A cache should not be hidden like it's some kind of immoral thing!" "From my point of view, LPCs are evil!" "Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!"

"I sense something, a presence I've not felt since..." "You are unwise to lower your defenses!" "All too easy." "You are beaten. It is useless to resist." "There will be a substantial reward for the one who finds the cache. You are free to use any methods necessary. No disintegrations." "There is no escape. Don't make me destroy you." "The Force is strong with this one." "I have you now!"

MAL-WART! MAL-WART? LOL!!!

What is the GC.number to this cache.And did you find this cache or read a log that said the log was moldy I assume it's GCV388. 'Needs Maintenance' log from over a year ago lists it as "Geotrash". And check the gallery. EEEEWWW!!

I disagree with most of the other posts here. If it looks like trash and smells like trash, it's trash. You have a greater responsibility to clean up trash than you do to save a cache. Obviously, common courtesy would require you to give the owner (and maybe even the local caching community) a chance to perform maintenance. But, if there's no response, you'd be well within your rights to clean up the area and post a 'Needs archived' log. Geocaches should NEVER take away from the beauty of the area they are in. If the area is an attractive place for a cache, it deserves a cache that will be maintained. If a cache can't be maintained, it doesn't deserve to live.

Same here with Firefox 3.5.7