Kewaneh & Shark

Instruments would be set up over triangulation station marks (with exception to structures used as stations). On true benchmarks, the instruments were set up off of the mark while only a rod occupied the mark itself, as Z15's photo shows. - Kewaneh

The website posted by CallawayMT is excellent for getting an approximate coordinate for the center of a township section. It is particularly useful when locating a section that is not near any roads or other development. However, the site does not 'convert' PLSS township & range data, or PLSS corner locations, into geodetic coordinates, or any other type of information that you would find on a map which delineates property. Property maps (and their corresponding property descriptions) and the Public Land Survey System (PLSS) Townships & Ranges are cadastral in nature, meaning there is no geodetic component to the data associated with them, or the monuments set for them. The data shown on property maps is commonly metes & bounds information, using compass bearings, which can look like geodetic coordinates. Determining a geodetic cooridinate for a PLSS mark can be done, but it's not exactly simple. Partially because while the PLSS is theoretically a square system laid out on a sphere, which can be mathmatically calculated, the physically realities of laying out such a system require some circumstantial adjustments (for things such as terrain and human error) which cannot be calculated for. - Kewaneh

Doh!!!! That would explain the absence of a big concrete arrow on the ground. - Kewaneh

GU3358 is the only one I've found. It is located at the Madera airport in Madera, California, and is still in relatively good condition. GU1086 is set in the wall of the control building for the tower. Interestingly, the 1958 description for GU1086 states that it is set on '...AN ABANDONED CONTROL TOWER BUILDING...' (the white building at the lower right of the photo). I would imagine that if the building was no longer in use in 1958, the tower was not being used either.

Cadastral marks are, by definition, used for marking land boundaries, both public and private. Property corners, State & National park boundary markers, and Public Land Survey System (PLSS) corner monuments are all types of cadastral marks. The position they represent is horizontal only; there is (very) rarely a vertical component associated with them. They are always surveyed and set to the same or higher standards than benchmarks, however the standards can be somewhat different. Generally, monuments in a cadastral survey are set to mark the corners of the property being identified. (The marks can also be set online, or as an offset to a corner.) In this case, the monuments represent the corners, and the 'clockhands' represent the approximate directions of the adjacent property line courses, pointing to the next property corner, similar to the arrow on a reference monument that points to the station. The only crews I've ever 'come across' were the crews I was on. - Kewaneh

I generally don't have a problem with the PAF lifeline, if it is used as a lifeline in those situations where the cache is clobbering you. There has been more than once where I wish I'd had one. What I take issue with is cachers who abuse the PAF. I've seen logs by people that have 'found' 20 or 30 in a day where most of the logs they've posted said they had to '...make a call to be sure'. I've even heard other cachers say they were on the phone as they arrived at the cache site! They don't even bother to look first. It's similar to the logs I've seen from out of town (or newbie) cachers who hooks up with a seasoned local so the local can 'take them to all the good caches' that the local has already found. As frustrating as it can be, if that's the way they want to play, there's really not a lot that can be done about it. Let them get their easy smiley and move on. Be happy knowing you got your smilies without using a lifeline. - Kewaneh

I guess you can call it whatever you want. If it detects metal, it's a metal detector. The survey-grade, 'magnetic locators' I've used for years all detected metal. Guess what we've called them? - Kewaneh

Here is a past thread that asks the question too. Bottom of marker disk? Hope this helps. - Kewaneh

You should use the WGS84 Datum with the DDD MM.mmm format. - Kewaneh

Monitoring wells are not survey marks. They are commonly used to monitor an underground aquifer for depth or for contaminants. This recent thread also discussed them. Hope this helps. - Kewaneh

Ditto. My Magellan is on it's last legs. When it comes time to get a replacement, Offroute is probably where I'll get it. Keep on Caching! - Kewaneh

We can't forget AI6721; the only WILD CARD! - Kewaneh

There are also these... FF1946 POKER AR triangulation station disk FF1947 POKER AZ MK AR azimuth mark disk LS0598 POKER NV triangulation station disk MX1240 POKER CA type not specified TT6997 POKER AK triangulation station disk BD2574 BLACK JACK GA survey disk DG3578 BLACK JACK 3 GA triangulation station disk DG3579 BLACK JACK 2 GA triangulation station disk DG3583 BLACK JACK 4 GA triangulation station disk EY4214 BLACK JACK NC traverse station disk EY4215 BLACK JACK TANK NC elevated tank JS4422 BLACKJACK CA triangulation station disk DG0803 CRAP GA triangulation station disk DG0804 CRAP RM 2 GA reference mark disk

http://www.ram-mount.com/ - Kewaneh

http://www.ram-mount.com/ - Kewaneh

County of San Diego Survey Records System Hugo A. Kuehmsted, California PLS 1011 A current list of California Land Surveyors can be found HERE. - Kewaneh

When the California lands were aquired from Mexico, there was an agreement that the Spanish & Mexican Land Grants (Ranchos) remain intact. As such, the private land holdings given to citizens from the King of Spain and the Mexican Government, and their seemingly irregular boundaries took precedent over any and all of the new United States (and Public Land Survey System) lands. The Government had changed, but the private land holdings remained. California gained Statehood in 1850, and the California Surveyor General, under direction of the U.S. Surveyor General, began the subdivision of the new public lands soon after. The surveyors charged with the task did so with guidance from the then current Public Land Survey System Manual of Instructions. The key here is the term 'Public Lands'. The U.S. Government recognized the Ranchos (and some mining claims and patents recorded prior to Statehood) as private land holdings which held 'Senior Rights' over the adjoining public lands. The Ranchos were not subdivided into townships, but were retained as one parcel of land, surrounded by the PLSS townships. Today, many of the Ranchos remain as they were in 1850, as seen in Rumpled's TopoZone example, but some of the Ranchos have been subdivided into a PLSS-type of system. The adjoining PLSS system may have been used and extended into the Rancho, but original Rancho boundary remains and any subdivided interior properties may still be under the Rancho jurisdiction and quailfications. - Kewaneh

Until recently, there was a street corner in my local area that had a City benchmark and a County benchmark - both well marked brass disks - set about 7" from each other on the top of a curb. That location with the adjacent settings was well known by local surveyors as an interesting example of datum differences. Due to different datums being used, and level runs being performed at different times, those two marks had a published elevation difference of 4.26 feet. (The actual, physical difference was about 0.01') The datum you were working in, or the Agency you were working for, determined which mark you were to use. Due to road widening, both of those marks are gone now. ----- GU3381 has got to be the worst case of two marks being set next to each other that I've found though: Link to BIG PIC ----- GU1669 is one of the few bridge resets I've found. The bridge was rebuilt in 1998-1999 and the mark was set in 2000, which may or may not go along with MLoser's theory. It is, however, a good example of casual benchmarkers logging the reset as the original, even with my note saying it's not the original. - Kewaneh

Surveyors do use the center of the square as the reference point. Chiseled squares are usually smaller than 2"x2" and the peremeter carved into a relatively level surface, resulting in a theoretically level square. There is no particular 'point of origin' within the square as all of the interior should maintain the same elevation. Level runs were/are commonly performed using Linker rods or Philly rods (among other things) which did not have a pointed tip, but a flat base about 1"x1.5". The newer digital levels have bigger bases about 1"x2.5". Although, the middle of the square is usually where the rod is set, rods designed specifically for leveling purposes usually completely cover any chiseled square that is tied to. When using a rod with a pointed tip, such as those designed for use with a theodolite, total station, or GPS, the center of the square is usually where the rod is set. Chiseled squares are commonly cut into curbs, sidewalks, bridge abutments, and other relatively level and stable objects. Some areas, for example Fresno, California, have extensive benchmark systems, comprised of a large number of chiseled squares. As far as the square found by the OP, a broken or damaged side would generally not detract from the usability of the square for surveying purposes, as the mark is the interior square, and not the carved peremeter. - Kewaneh

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I'm going to have to side with the 'I Don't Mind Lamp Post Caches' group. I thought the first one I found was cool enough that I copied the idea. As a matter of fact, that copy, (which is still active) was the first one in my area. When I first placed it, I got logs like 'Wow! What a cool hide!' Now I get, '...ho hum...another one, just like the others...' Maybe so, but hey, if you don't like it, don't log the smiley. I'll agree that they are a bit overdone as lots of people have copied the idea, but I think the fact that they have been copied so often shows that some people like them. They require a bit of stealth (which some cachers like), they're relatively well camo'ed (muggles don't notice them) and they're usually fairly protected from the harsh elements. Crawly bugs and land owner permissions are another story. They may seen as being unimaginative, but they're no where near as unimaginative as a 'micro in a bush'. My area has been proliferated with 'bush' caches, and most are nothing more than 'Hey! I saw this bush as I was driving and had a micro in my pocket... my EPE was 126 feet so you can easily find this 1/1...' I'll take a Lamp Post cache any day. Keep on Caching! - Kewaneh

My Kids insist that the only music we should listen to while caching is the soundtrack to the Nicholas Cage movie, 'National Treasure'. - Kewaneh

I have six virtuals and each one has questions for info that can be found on the internet, but I've tried to make sure that at least one question cannot be answered without a site visit. Most of my virts have the cacher look at a sign or plaque for the answers, but then I'll also ask them something like 'What is the name of the park is across the street?' or 'How many windows are on the backside of the building'. I've tried to come up with questions that make drive-bys difficult or impossible. I want the cacher to get out and look around. I also stress on the cache page that those are the important questions to answer. There may be a little wiggle room with some of the questions, but not so with the very site specific questions. I've had cachers send all the answers but the important ones, and I've got many excuses as to why not all the answers are there. (One of my favorites had to be 'I couldn't answer that question because I couldn't see it from the car and it was raining.' That cacher logged 43 regular caches that day, and he didn't get a smiley from me.) I'll usually send them a note asking for the remaining answers letting them know that without it, the find is incomplete. I also like to look at the logs of other nearby caches for the same date. If that person was caching in the area, there should be other logs that show it. To answer your question: if you don't think that lewisclan77 (or any cacher for that matter) has visited your virtual, but is claiming a find, ask them about it. If they can't provide proof to you that they were there, delete their log. It's your cache, and your rules for logging a find on it. If a cacher does not want to play by your rules, or even Geocaching's rules for that matter, delete their log and don't worry about it. - Kewaneh

In most cases, the the body of water IS the marker. Generally, property descriptions that use a water body as a property limit are using that water body as a natural monument. - Kewaneh

Sure they can. I have more than one cache that is placed very near to a benchmark, or somehow otherwise incorporates a benchmark into the cache location or description. Cache GCD754, "Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200." was placed by my wife while she patiently waited for me to log a few marks. PID GU1072 & PID GU3368 are both referenced on the cache page and much easier to find than the cache. Cache GCQHD1, "Kin Folk" is placed within 5 feet of PID GU3372, designated "KIN", which gave the cache its name. Most people actually step over the mark to get to the cache. I have a few others caches that use benhmarks and have more in the works. - Kewaneh