TommyGator

Consider that GS has reasons for not applying any judgment or oversight over AdLabs. The idea seems to be that these are experimental and have been given to the community "carte blanche" to see what the community can come up with. Establishing rules and then enforcing them changes the whole concept of "experimental," and then drags GS into the quagmire of having to adjudicate complaints between COs and finders, as well as complaints from COs who feel such oversight was, for some reason, unjust. The forums already contain complaints requesting the ability to delete logs or otherwise punish finders for not complying with what the CO intended, which would invariably result in complaints to GS for arbitration when such actions are challenged, and I would guess that GS isn't in the mood to enter that fray at present, but is interested to see the ideas generated by the community and the issues/advantages they bring. Of course, that's just my guess.

I'm afraid I have to disagree----sort of. The ONLY reason to be concerned whatsoever about guessing is to prevent cheating, which seems to be a far greater concern for some COs rather than the quality of the AdLab experience for those playing it properly. The AdLab "system" is already set up to require the player to be physically present at the GZ to answer the question. In that light, I don't think the complexity of the answer has any relevance. In fact, I've had to guess a number of times because the CO either spelled something different from what lay before me (and, blushingly, I've been guilty of misspelling too), and more recently, MY way of counting objects apparently differed from the way the CO counted. In fact, after finally guessing one answer (after having a seat at the GZ because I knew it would take a while) and then re-looking at the GZ with correct answer in hand, I still couldn't figure how the CO got that answer. I would have been highly unhappy if I had to leave that AdLab unfinished, and it was at a location far enough away that a return trip would be unlikely anytime soon. Since only a cheating hacker is able to override the "you have to be there" protocol, I think I'd let Groundspeak worry about that and concentrate my efforts on enjoying the game with the vast multitude who play the game as it is. Then again, that's just my opinion. If someone wants to lose sleep over not being able to delete someone's log, that's their business. To me, there are many bigger issues with AdLabs than this, and I'd prefer GS to pay attention to the many recommendations already made rather than getting into fights over who may or may not have cheated---unless GS likes the adjudication business.

I would expect that anyone who uses notifications for new caches (mystery, in particular) would recognize a bonus based on an AdLab they'd already completed and would merely go back to the app to review the journals. Actually, it would be nice if the bonus web page description mentioned where the coordinates might be found (i.e., in the AdLab journals). A more perplexing situation could occur based on a recent AdLab I just examined, but haven't yet played. The bonus for this particular AdLab doesn't rely on the AdLab journals. Instead, the CO added additional questions, listed on the bonus web page, which would have to be answered WHILE you are doing the AdLab, in addition to the questions asked by the AdLab. In this scenario, anyone who didn't know about the bonus (or forgot that a bonus was associated with it), who had already completed the AdLab, would have to go back and retrace their route through the AdLab to be able to answer the additional bonus questions. If I decide to go after this particular AdLab, I will have to remember to print-out the bonus web page to have the list of additional questions with me. Of course, those who geocache only by smartphone will have to jockey back-and-forth between the AdLab and their regular geo-app so as to be able to view both games somewhat simultaneously, and some method to record the bonus answers as they proceed through the AdLab. It sure would be nice if the AdLab developers provided the CO with an end-of-AdLab completion message in which the CO could place bonus coordinates instead of using the journals, and could use such a message to provide additional end-of-game information if so desired. As best I can tell, EVERY sequential AdLab I've thus far completed has been sequential ONLY for the purpose of hiding bonus coordinates in the final journal or placing me near the bonus at the end. I don't know what the developers had in mind by giving the option to make an AdLab sequential or not, but can only relate how I've been seeing that capability used----and I find it irritating to not have advance knowledge of upcoming stages and being limited to a specific route solely to make it easier to include a bonus. Some might, with some validity, argue that this process is akin to doing a five-or-more stage Multi, where you won't know anything about a subsequent stage until completing the present stage. The difference is that with a Multi I need only use one device or app, and can see the constellation of other nearby caches while I progress and can easily deviate whenever an enroute opportunity arises. I can also do two or more multis simultaneously because I don't have to keep swapping apps/devices to see what is around me or plan my route, or have to keep swapping between AdLabs (which I've already done a couple of times and it detracted from the experience). It appears to me that the AdLab design philosophy is that of a single linear start-to-finish app-only game that excludes any other activities until that particular game is completed. Yes, you can deviate for other purposes, but only after making awkward swaps and restarts. This probably works fine for an area with only one or two AdLabs and that's all you were interested that day. However, if you find yourself in an area with 14 uncompleted AdLabs, you might not particularly care for doing them linearly one-by one, criss-crossing back and forth over routes of AdLabs you've already completed, or even going backwards to re-visit sites that you'd just visited on a previous AdLab (which has happened to me too). Sorry for putting multiple issues here---I wrote them as they occurred to me.

What comes up if you tap on the icon? Does a normal AdLab come up, or an AdLab with something missing?

If you also have an Android smartphone, you can use an OTG USB adapter to connect your Etrex30 to the phone using a USB cable, then transfer files using the Android file transfer utility. I have to agree that swapping micro-USB cards is probably the easiest for your specific purpose. However, I have found it convenient to carry "extra files" in my Android phone and, with an OTG adapter, can connect USB devices (such as my Etrex30 or a USB stick) to the phone and transfer a variety of files.

Had a "counter issue" just the other day. I logged two traditional caches via GSAK and the API, but my "total finds" counter only incremented by one. I started to wonder, but about an hour or so later saw that it finally incremented by one more to the correct count. Better late than never, so to speak.

I just went back and looked at the AdLab I published, and it looks like I can edit everything that I originally entered. If something can't, it's news to me---but then, my experience is limited to the one AdLab I've been credited..

AFAIK, the CO has no "final completion message," only a journal entry for each stage. When you complete each intermediate (i.e., non-final) stage, you can tap on a button to see the journal entry for that particular stage before continuing on to the next stage. The CO makes and can edit each journal entry. However, it works differently for the last stage. When you successfully answer the final question, you get immediately pre-empted by the "Congratulations" screen which is stock from Groundspeak and cannot be edited. You are then taken directly to the logging area so you can post your log, if so desired. It is only after you either post a log or otherwise exit the AdLab that you can re-enter the AdLab and then scroll through all the journal entries, finally getting to read the last one that got pre-empted by the "congratulations" screen. The lack of a final completion message is why COs who have made a bonus cache will make the AdLab sequential, then put the bonus coordinates in the last stage, knowing that you will have had to do all the stages before getting the bonus coordinates. This method works, but otherwise needlessly makes you go sequentially for no other apparent reason other than to make up for the lack of an actual final completion message. If such were to exist, the CO could put the bonus coordinates there, and then would not have to resort to making the AdLab sequential----unless there were an actual thematic reason for doing so----which I have yet to see, but recognize that such is theoretically possible.

After I completed an AdLab, the CO later deleted one of the stages due to valid reasons (conditions at the physical site had changed). Now, the app (Android for me) crashes whenever I try to re-access the individual stages of that particular AdLab. I can bring up the AdLab's main page and can view the remaining journals as well as the activity log---- but if I tap on the map at the bottom to access the individual stages, that's when the app crashes. BTW, it thankfully DOES still show up as completed, both on the map and on the list. However, when I check my profile, the report of my Lab finds shows only the current number of stages as "found," which is one less than the number I actually completed. I have no idea whether my total find count changed after the deletion occurred. My guess is that the "system" knows my actual count, but it doesn't match with AdLab's current available count, hence the crash, If anyone is asking, I prefer to keep my actual count intact, Apparently, deleted AdLab stages are not archived---they simply disappear, causing consequences as described.

I just used the builder and the default was non-sequential. I left it that way. I've found a number of sequential AdLabs now and could not discern a thematic reason for doing so in any of them, except for hiding bonus coordinates in the last journal entry, or putting you close to the bonus cache at the end. I imagine one could come up with an adventure theme for which the order might be important, but I've yet to see one. Perhaps something that builds from stage to stage, or something like that.

PQs also allow you to examine caches at locations other than where you are, and do it on your computer instead of on a smartphone screen. Suppose that next week (Covid-19 notwithstanding) you are planning to drive to another state to visit relatives for a week or two and would like to do some caching while you are there. You can download, not only a PQ of the area you will be visiting, but also get caches along the route that you can look through to see if any pique your interest. There are a number of good software programs such as GSAK that allow you to do this with ease---far easier than scrolling around a map of icons on your smartphone. Since local law enforcement takes a dim view of you staring at your smartphone while you drive, it might be to your advantage to make note of particular caches you'd like to visit along the way and so be better prepared---perhaps by pre-loading coordinates into your vehicle's navigation system. Further, if you are "into" such things as puzzle caches, where the posted coordinates may be up to two miles away from the real cache location, you might find it advantageous to download a PQ of such caches so you can work through them in an orderly fashion.

I believe I've come to recognize the biggest issue geocachers have with AdLabs (speaking for myself), and it is a matter of philosophy, not technology. The AdLab app, just like the official Geocaching app before lists were introduced, is designed to be a "spur of the moment" geocaching activity. That is, it is designed for the person who, once in a while, says to themselves, "Gee, I have some time on my hands and I wonder if there are any AdLabs currently around my present position. That person opens the app, which centers on their present position, and shows them the AdLabs sorted by increasing distance from their present position (if you press on the "three bars"). Sure, you can scroll a map to see if any are elsewhere, but you won't get a listing of them except from your present position, sorted by circular distance, and only the names, distance, and whether or not you've completed them. It is left to the user to individually drill down on each entry to try to determine where that AdLab might be, or click on individual pins one at a time, to get bits of information about them that require multiple app-presses---for each one. Presuming that you, the user, are THIS type of cacher----the kind where your main concept of geocaching is as a spontaneous activity where your main way of caching is to say, "Gee, I wonder if there are any caches around here?" then this app is for you. It is "stand alone" and you need no other support from geocaching.com. On the other hand, if you are like just about every geocacher I've known and met that really enjoys geocaching, gathers with friends to go on caching trips, PLANS where they want to go and what caches they want to go after, then this app alone just doesn't "cut it" because cachers who PLAN what they do need more information than the app provides, just like the official geocaching app, and depend on information (downloadable lists, GPX/LOC files, web pages with descriptions, etc) gathered from geocaching.com. In fact, many become Premium members specifically to get access to MORE information from geocaching.com, because of the importance of that information to their style of caching, so much so that they pay an annual fee in order to get such access. Now, this is not to say that cachers don't have spontaneous moments---I certainly do and I know others do as well---but those moments are few, as the vast majority of the caching I and others do is PLANNED, and I depend on geocaching.com and tools such as GSAK to help me organize my geocaching activities. Getting the information I need to plan for AdLabs isn't provided except through the APP, and is laborious and time-consuming to extract. You can't get coordinates without drilling-down through app pages, finally getting to Google Maps, and then having to WRITE THEM DOWN (I haven't yet gotten cut-and-paste to work here) in order to transcribe them to another device or enter into a database. You can't get a listing of descriptions if the CO chose to make the AdLab sequential, if only to have the ability to enter bonus coordinates on the last page and for no other reason. And most importantly, you can't get any information whatsoever from geocaching.com, because the philosophy, at the moment, appears to be a "stand alone" app with little or no user support from the parent website. Until this philosophy changes, I'm afraid frustration lay ahead for cachers who'd really like to include them but find the effort increasingly difficult and contradictory to their style and manner of caching, that style and manner which keeps them interested and invested in the hobby. Of course, others will have their own opinions---this is just mine. Personally, I've had fun doing most AdLabs and look forward to more, but am getting weary of the extra work involved due to lack of parent website support. To me, it's not so much a matter of "fixing the app," as the app works relatively well for what it does. It's more a matter of providing support in terms of information from the geocaching.com website---information which would help me blend AdLabs into my "normal" geocaching activities.

As AdLabs proliferate, cache management gets more and more difficult because of the lack of downloadable descriptions and downloadable coordinates. Further, the app makes this more difficult by not necessarily showing all the AdLab pins on the map display. First, notice the screenshot for the Cleveland, Ohio area as of today. These pins represent eighteen active AdLabs, each having perhaps five or more sub-caches that clearly will overlap each other. What's more, see if you can identify the eighteen pins. I say that because some of the pins are underneath other pins. Just try and plan-out your day of caching for a visit to the Cleveland area that won't involve criss-crossing all over town, and wasting fuel, just because of the way information is being presented and because of the lack of downloadable information with which one could do some decent planning. There just might be some "standard" caches sprinkled between those pins as well---just try and figure that out! Secondly, note that there are no pins by Youngstown and Ashtabula. However, just scroll a little and then take another look. Compare the first screenshot with the second and see that there are indeed AdLabs in Youngstown and Ashtabula, but the app didn't display them in the first screen! What this indicates is that the app only displays SOME of the AdLabs on any particular screen. It's your guess as to why the first screenshot didn't show pins there. What this means to the user is that you constantly have to keep nudging the screen position just in case an AdLab was there but didn't get displayed until I suppose you get it closer to the center of the screen. I've noticed this a lot as I scroll around. I've mentioned this before, but decent planning involves being able to see and download detailed information from the web, and NOT be limited to what the app currently shows so awkwardly. Because of the lack of such information, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to plan caching trips, particularly to areas with multiple AdLabs. Further, not having the coordinates readily available makes it difficult to enter them into an automotive navigation system---and a number of these AdLabs can each involve considerable driving. Although it is possible to obtain coordinates one-by-one from Google Maps, that means one has to ticky-tacky each coordinate manually into their automotive GPS, or into GSAK in order to get a GPX or LOC file that should have been available (in my opinion) right from the start. Then again, that's just me. If you see a better way to use the information as it is currently presented, please share.

FYI, I had this happen to me just yesterday. I had logged a find using the Geocaching App; the app said that it posted, the map showed a smiley, but the posted log never made it to geocaching.com. Fortunately, I don't use the app for logging very much, and keep manual notes on my finds---and that's how I found the issue, as the logs didn't tally. I re-opened the app and, sure enough, it showed a smiley for the particular cache, but it was still unfound on the website. I posted a new log on the website and will get on with life---but will be cautious whenever using the app for posting. *ADDENDUM* (added 25 June 2020) After about a week, the log finally showed up on the GC cache webpage, but as a "Note" instead of "Found." As I said above, the app at the time clearly showed it as found, and showed a smiley. But when it finally showed up on the web page, it posted as a "Note." Moral to the story: It is advisable to double check one's finds after posting from the app.

I also use an Etrex30 but load it using GSAK, which removes special characters from titles and text. Haven't had any problem with rejected caches. Seems to do the trick just fine.

More thoughts: Right now, there are only four ways to find out that there is a new AdLab in your area: 1) You receive notification of a new puzzle cache published which, in the description (or title), tells you it is a bonus cache for some new AdLab. 2) Another geocacher tells you about it or publishes a list/map. 3) You happen to notice a new "pin" on the map next time you happen to be looking at the AdLab app. 4) You open the AdLab app, tap on the "three bars" at top right, and then scroll through all of the nearby AdLabs looking to see if any of them are not completed. I've learned about new AdLabs by all four methods above, with Items 3) and 4) being the "official" methods, being as GC doesn't provide any other info to my knowledge. Items 3) and 4) work fine when there are only a handful of AdLabs in your area and, when you open the app, you actually notice a new "pin." Unfortunately, this quickly breaks down when there are 680 AdLabs in your area and you've already done 679 of them. You open the app and, on your map, you don't see any map, just a screenful of overlapping "checked" pins that totally obliterate the map unless you zoom-in to the point that all you can see is your street. You tap on the three bars, then sit back and start scrolling, screen by screen, through all of your 679 completed AdLabs, hoping to notice if an "orange" one pops up signifying an unfound AdLab. This problem has already occurred with me, even though I don't have anywhere near that many completed AdLabs, but our area his rapidly getting more of them and portions of new AdLabs are already overlaying old ones. I learned of a new AdLab by method 1) the other day and didn't recognize the name. So, I went to the app, looked at the map, and saw all my completed "checked" pins, with no new orange pin visible. I started zooming in and, sure enough, bit by bit, the more I zoomed, the more little bits of orange I saw around the edge of one of my "checked" pins. I finally zoomed in enough to be able to tap on the orange pin and then the new AdLab popped up. Mind you, this is just the beginning----there aren't that many AdLabs in our area, but the problem has already cropped up and will only get worse as more are published. Some solutions? Here's a couple of suggestions: 1) For GC: In the next AdLab app update, allow the user to hide (on the map) the display of found AdLabs. 2) For GC: When tapping on the three bars, allow the user to choose which (ie. found OR unfound) nearby AdLabs to include on the list. I don't need to see all my completed AdLabs if I'm trying to find new ones to go after. Thanks!

HHL, I just tried it and also found that, after you open the completed Ad Lab, then tap the overview map at the bottom, you can go to the upper right of the screen and tap on the three bars to get a menu of the individual caches. You can tap on each one and read the descriptions. Thanks!

More considerations: If you haven't already, it would behoove you to learn how to do screenshots on the device hosting your AL app. Why? Let's suppose you are proceeding through an AL that requires the caches to be done in a particular order, and you just completed one of the caches and have just been given the info about the next one and where to find it. You walk or drive to that GZ, grab your app, read the page, and find that it has some really cool info on the place you are now visiting. In your geocaching zeal to grab the smiley, you quickly press "Answer," read the question, look around, find the info, enter it, and are greeted with the congratulatory message that you have completed the cache. Now that the geo-adrenaline has subsided, you go back to read that really nice description in leisure, only to find that...PFFT!...it's gone, never to be seen by you on the app anymore, because that cache is completed and there's no going back. If only you'd taken a screenshot of that cool description page before you answered that question!!! If you are a CO reading this, you might consider putting the cool stuff in the respective journal entry, which is the only thing a player can see after a cache is complete. Just some thoughts, speaking from actual experience.

I've seen bonus (physical) caches handled two ways: 1) A partial bonus coordinate given in the completion message for each AL location. That is, the bonus coordinates are broken up just like bonus caches that require a series of traditonal caches to be found, each containing a specific code. For example, if the bonus coordinates are N30.AB.CDE W097.FG.HIJ, the codes would be distributed in the completion messages for all the individual AL locations. 2) The bonus coordinates provided in the completion message of the final location. Each of these methods has worked just fine for me. However, I would argue that requiring a player to follow a particular order solely to make it easier for the CO to put the bonus coordinates on the last page might not be the best design philosophy. I did not see that the Adventure Lab Builder has the ability to create an overall personal AL completion message. If it does, I've missd it. Allowing the CO to include a personal statement at the final completion of the ANY Adventure Lab might be a worthwhile feature for a future lab builder update.

I tried to post this to "User Insights," but no one has posted there since 2018 and so I figure it isn't being read much, and can't start a new feedback topic there anyhow. Adventure Lab Feedback Having now done almost 100 Adventure Lab caches, I thought I'd provide some personal feedback for whatever use might be helpful. I'm dividing this "report" into two sections: The "play experience," and "the app." Sometimes these factors overlap, but I'll try to keep them somewhat separate. Play Experience: Overall, my "enjoyment" has ranged from "really liked," to "sheer drudgery." The difference between those two extremes comes down to how each AL was designed by the different COs. I realize the developers have no input into this, but want to share the experience, as developers and admin make decisions that have moved/removed cache types (such as web cams) or have "transferred" them to other internal venues such as waymarks. I consider an AL fun if I come away from it happy that I spent the time (and fuel) doing it. To make a comparison, I tried Waymarking once and quit after doing just 13 of them because I rapidly tired of such "exciting" experiences such as submitting pictures of logos and objects at fast food restaurants, just to prove I was there. I'm sure there are people who enjoy traveling to different restaurants so they can post pictures of arches, chicken buckets, and the like, but I'm not one of them. If you are, please keep enjoying yourself. But the reason I mention this is because some ALs are just like this and can be just as boring and frustrating, at least in my opinion, which others may freely disregard, but I now I understand why GC moved Waymarks to a different e-venue, and then started considering Virtuals as nothing but a variety of Waymarks. I'm not going to mention specific ALs, as I know COs do make a serious effort in trying to come up with good ideas, and that ALs are beta in nature. However, I did two ALs that had me driving all over creation just to prove that I visited ("logged") a number of county/city parks. It isn't that there was anything wrong with the parks----but if you've seen one grass field (and that's what you were supposed to see), you've seen them all. Of course, that's just my opinion. And there were significant distances between some of the fields. On the other hand, I did one that took me to a town we don't often visit and introduced us to a bunch of cool features throughout the downtown area that were most enjoyable, and will probably induce us to come back for another visit. At each AL cache, the player has to answer a query in order to get credit. Most of the time this works well and is straight-forward. However, nothing is more frustrating than driving some distance to an AL cache, finding the object required, and then finding that the obviously clear answer isn't being accepted because the CO's expected answer is spelled (or misspelled) differently from that on the sign or object, or requires some interpretation as to what the CO was thinking about in asking the question. You can't go home, contact the CO, get clarification, and then log the find, because you have to be AT the location in order to log it, and a return trip for the sole purpose of re-entering the answer just isn't fun. Of course, you can try messaging the CO, and that has in fact worked a time or two---provided the CO immediately responds, and thankfully, some have. Some ALs require you to proceed between caches in a particular order and do not provide details for the next cache until you visit the previous one. While I understand the concept, a CO should have a really, really GOOD reason for mandating a specific order, rather than make the player follow a specific path that might just be inconvenient from their perspective---and hiding the information of subsequent caches should likewise be done only for specific and GOOD reasons. Please don't make me back-track from the direction I was traveling without good reason---especially if the caches are miles apart. Now, the App (Android for me): Here I discuss the App as well as the game structure. Except for one function, the app has worked flawlessly as best I can tell. The only problem (so far) has been that, on many ALs, after completing one of a series of caches, the app does not internally switch to the next cache, even though it says it did. In other words, the app says you are navigating to the next cache, but internally it is still locked onto the previous one. This can be "cleared" by exiting and restarting the app. I've seen others comment on this, so I suppose the developers already know about this bug. It doesn't happen all the time, which is kind of weird. Although the app works well otherwise, that doesn't mean that I'm entirely happy with it. For some reason, GC seems to want to intentionally hide information from the player such as actual coordinates and make the player hunt and scroll for textual information about each aspect of every AL. Is there something so hard about allowing a player to download a GPX or LOC for selected ALs? Is there something so hard about allowing a player to read the full text of an AL at home on a PC? Is there something so hard about displaying a list of the coordinates while using the app? If you can display text, you can display coordinates. Yes, I know you can get some of the coordinates by circuitous methods, but it seems like this is being made difficult on purpose. After all, navigating to a set of coordinates is the very foundation of geocaching. The lack of coordinates and having to hunt and scroll through the app in advance of a caching trip, just to see what may be available, is very annoying and frustrating. Expending significant effort, I've been able to manually load most coordinates into GSAK, one by one. It is ONLY through this effort that I've learned that caches from two or more different ALs can overlap each other. That is, while I was driving through an area, I could have logged two AL caches from two different ALs at or near that same location. You only see that (reasonably) by viewing all the coordinates at the same time. Further, I can merge the AL GPX/LOC with other GC GPX/LOC files to see the entire array of caches, both "standard" and AL, that may be along my route, and allow me to "pick them up" as I proceed. Making me run around on an AL separate from other caches can be annoying and counter-productive. I prefer to geocache with a dedicated GPS for many reasons and have it loaded with the coordinates of caches for my area of interest. I can then navigate to any of them on one device in the order that I choose. I have no problem opening the AL app to log an entry when needed, but very much dislike being effectively denied (by making it complicated) the use of my GPS by the AL development team. By being able to read ahead on the various caches of an AL at home, I can better choose what I want to do on any particular caching trip, and by this I mean reading ahead on each and every cache, if I so choose. ALs can bring people to interesting places, and I might like to know about some of them in advance. Being able to open a web page with the details of each cache makes this simple. Making me open the app and scroll/hunt around for snippets does not. Having it on the app is expected. Having it ONLY on the app is not. Ok, that's all for now. Like I said, these are just my opinions for your consideration. Although I hear rumors, I really don't know what direction you are trying to force ALs or the geocaching community, but wanted you to know how I view the game as I play it. Others may differ, of course. Please feel free to point out anything I may have "gotten wrong," as I am certainly no expert and may have missed something. Thanks for listening!

Provide a link to download a GPX or LOC for each Adventure. I seldom look for Adventures solely by themselves. Many Adventure stages are near other caches and I would like to able to use just one device (an actual GPSr) to navigate between stages, which may involve grabbing "normal" caches while enroute. I have no problem using the AL app for logging---just want to use my GPSr for the actual navigation, especially when AL stages are considerably far apart and "normal" caches just happen to be along the way. A GPX or LOC of all stage coordinates would really enhance the experience.

Unfortunately, klicking on the 3 bullet points only gives you the other waypoints if you are permitted to visit the waypoints in any order. Many ALs require you to proceed in a specific order and only show you the intended upcoming waypoint, and you can't view any remaining waypoints until you complete the previous one. I don't know if this is an oversight or a "feature." I, too, would like to be able to read the listings beforehand, and I find the sequential ones frustrating for withholding such information. Then again, I have to remind myself that these are "experimental" and have to give slack while ALs develop.

I received one of these (from a previous DNF) too. Is GC offering a FREE "Found it" as a Valentine's gift? The email contains a link marked "FIND ME" that links to the cache web page, presumably so I can log the find. As I'm not the only one who has DNFd the cache, I have no intention of actually re-visiting the GZ until the CO (who hasn't logged-on or shown any signs of activity since December of last year) verifies that the cache is there. On the other hand, if the email allows a FREE FIND ..............

When encountering an "uncomfortable" personal property cache, I've had good success by knocking on the door, introducing myself, and asking for permission to search. I've met a lot of really nice people this way---some COs and some who just happened to be living there who knew about the cache. Some even came out to watch and even (sometimes) offered a hint. I've also met people this way (yes, at wrong houses) who had no idea about geocaching and I left thankful that I knocked first.

Download the "Pocket PC" cartridge. It also works with Android WhereYouGo.