ODragon

Thank you for proving my point about diluting a good challange. However, back on my topic, I would delete and keep deleting the person's log if he continues to log it. If he didn't meet the requirements, it's your 'job' to police your logs and delete false finds (IMHO).

Challenge caches, IMHO, should be special. I liked when it was essentailly DeLorme, County and Fizzy, maybe one or two more. The problem with too many challenge caches (especially silly or lame ones) is that they water down the concept to the point where they just become 'another cache'. I don't want just another cache, we have enough of those. Someone could come out with the "T1* challenge" where all you have to do is find a Terrain 1 with the 9 Difficulty possibilities. Why would someone do this? I don't know but they could. To me it is just a watered down part of the Fizzy challenge. IMO, when you can take the challange and plop it down in multiple parts of the same state, it's probably something I would consider watering down the concept and as such, lame or silly. (IE, this cache should just as easily spawn the I76, I81, I80, I95, etc).

I think this single post hit the nail on the head... There are lots of silly or lame challenges out there, (IMHO, the one in this topic is one of them), and if I lived in that area, it would probably go on the ignore list or the 'do as I'm doing something else list' vs things like the DeLorme/AllCounties/Fizzy which to me are more interesting. Maybe because in general one doesn't want to promote Challenge caches the same way one doesn't want to promote ALR caches.

Allow me to make a side note comment... it would be nice if you placed the final in different parts of the state for the different challenge. Having it all in one spot seems like it sort of defeats the real purpose of the challenges, which to me is to explore your area trying to complete the challenge. In PA, we have the all counties, the delorme, Fizzy all located in VASTLY different areas of the state. One is a really easy walk (almost cache and dash), one is a nice walk in the game lands and the third is a killer hike. One is on the Western side of the state, one is on the SouthEastern Side and the Third is somewhere inbetween.

I've never posted a NM for a cache I've not been to. To me, that's something you can't do without being on site... A NA on the other hand I have done and will continue to do. Looking at the logs, sometimes you can just tell. Many people ignore all logs that aren't a NA note. Example 10 DNFs from January 16th to April 21st on a 1*/1* cache. No owner in sight... Someone posts a NA and the owner vows to check on it. Owner goes and checks and guess what, it's missing... I can give you example after example of NA logs on caches people posted from home. I would guess that 90% of them are right... edited for spelling

I disagree some of the time. Yes, there are times when concerns should be brought to the owners and other times it should be brought to 'mom'. If I think there is an issue with coords being off or uncomfortable because the area is nasty or what I find at the area, I'm going to e-mail the owner. If there appear to be trespass (residents only) issues, buried or other things I consider a reviewer problem that's who I'm sending it to. From my experience, many times it takes a "NA" log to give the owners the kick in the pants they need to do something. You see caches all the time that have 30 logs complaining there are issue and they're ignored but when the NA is posted, something gets done.

If you did everything properly, then no, I see no reason to delete your log nor do I see a reason for an owner to delete your log. It happens a lot more often then you think (although, not for FTF). People don't always see signs that are there, they go in one way (no sign) but come out a different way where there is obvious signs. If you feel it needs to be archived, post it. If someone deletes your find, that's petty.

Goals... I have many of them... Get all of the virtual caches left in a given state (completed NJ, DE) Get all the counties in NJ, DE, PA. (completed NJ, DE) Have fun! (completed almost anywhere I cache!)

I think this is one of the issues that causes problems. The where ever you want clause is causing lots of issues. Many areas have rules and letterboxers (and geocachers for that matter) often don't know about them. Here at geocaching, these issues are checked for but at most of the letterboxing sites, they are not. This checking is what takes time. You should let your letterboxing friends know that the 'place anywhere' mentality is causing problems for both sides of the fence. Examples: Locally, we have a park system that requires a permit for geocaching and letterboxing. There are at least a dozen geocaches there with permission (most didn't know they needed it in this park system but the reviewer let them know). My park contact says he pulls letterboxes weekly as they don't have permission. Another time geocachers were getting blamed for putting caches in a park without permission. It turned out they were letterboxes and not geocaches however, trying to get them to see it as two different entities was a problem. Don't take my post as anti-letterbox, I'm not. I just don't want to see anyone ruining their fun for anyone else!

I think the thing that is being missed is that a cache that is being maintained, even by the community, will probably never show up to a reviewer radar so nothing will happen to it. Most times, when it's brought to the reviewers attention, the problems are so bad that something has to be done. Adoptions can not always happen because of many reasons like there is no container so there is nothing to adopt, etc.

Yes, us easterners are a social bunch. I've been to 73 events/CITOs within 75 miles of my house. Of that, 49 of them have been in PA and I probably haven't been to about 1/2 of the events that happen. We have at least 4 on going monthly events (same GC#, can log a smiley each month if you like) which makes it even harder to keep track of just how many events we have! Events are a great way to meet the locals, how a meal, etc. We have them often and I want to have more!

Also, make sure you've added the additional waypoints for everything you mention on the cache page like parking. (I see you didn't do that which is why I mention it).

The more you tell them, the less time it should take to get published.

Duplicate of this thread

You can't stand having to get up at 7 am for work but will get up much earlier and happier to go caching!

Are you kidding me? When I'm caching with my girlfriend and she signs the log for both of us, you consider this a deletable violation?!? Wow... I can't tell from your emoticon if you are appalled that I would let my girlfriend sign the log for both of us (when we're both there rather than have her pass it to me) or that he would delete someone's find who was there because someone else signed their name for them.

Are you kidding me? When I'm caching with my girlfriend and she signs the log for both of us, you consider this a deletable violation?!? Wow...

Don't make it a traditional cache... Many people don't travel with cache info or will miss that the cache is locked. They will get there without the combo and no easy way to get it and leave annoyed. Make it a multi/mystery/letterbox where they either get the combo while doing the other stages or know they need the page to open it. (If it's near Dover, I'll do it!)

Besides getting more people to do it if you break it down to smaller amounts, it may end up being less problematic for those finding it... With a couple of places to start, if one of the stages goes missing, they still have other places to work on it but if stage 5 goes missing, the other 45 stages can't be found. For me, I would probably work on it slowly as I did other caches, never really focusing on it. Grab a couple of stages while doing other stuff in the area. My guess is many people would do that and if I got 70% of the way through and it was archived due to problems combined with the speed I was doing it, I would be annoyed. All that being said, it is your cache, do with it as you'd like.

I'd say you'd get many more visitors if you made 5 10-stage multis and maybe throw in a bonus cache where they collect 1/5 of the coords from each multi.

I know what the current NPS guidance says. I'm just saying that when placement of new caches was banned, the old ones weren't out right removed or even requested to be removed. In other words, you've asked for permission and didn't get it. Tell the others in that park, maybe even mention it to your reviewer that they don't appear to be allowing new caches in there and move on to a new spot.

Shades of the past is a great virtual in NEPA territory that no one finds... It's been found 13 times in over 4 years, with almost half of the finds in 2007.

They may have been granted permission originally, but as I stated in the OP, their stance is now "We don't allow geocaches in our park." When the NPS stopped allowing caches a long time ago, most of them did not ask for the old caches to be removed. I would take that mentality and just let the owners of those caches know what you were told and fina a different place.

You'd think that right? Here's a log that was deleted from our local locked cache: Note that that "quarter mile trudge" was round trip time. My favorite is that his listed job, "Intelligence Analyst".

I am also seeing this issue.