Phonedave

I am on "alert" too whenever I am out, but I still do stupid things. Geocaching has created some bad habits in me that I now try to break. Before Geocaching I never would climb a sunny rock slope reaching into holes looking for an ammo can. After a few suprises (no venomous snakes though) I started using a "poking stick" and now I use one of my trekking poles (lets hear it for achy knees !). I was out in Colorado a few weeks ago for business and was killing time caching. I once again got into the bad habit and while balancing on some rip rap in a drainage slope I was poking though the rock, and was startled by a snake (it moved too fast, and I was too busy trying not to fall down the slope to identify it). But then somtimes I am startled by birds flushing as well. Man sometimes I hate grouse in the winter -dave

Don't bother I was going to write a reply when I saw this, but first I went to eat. As I ate, I was reading the copy of Backpacker that just came. How topical can you get. Page 59 What is the best way to treat a bite from a poisonous snake? My best advice is to relax. Most bites come from pit vipers like rattlers, and getting excited actually increases the rare chance of death. First sit dowan and calm yourself. Next wash the wound. If bitten on the arm or leg, keep it level with the heart, and remove jewelery in case of swelling, which happens in 75-percent of all pit viper bites. Walk out slowly and seek medical attention. If you are deep in the wilderness, arrange for an air evacuation. He then goes into what to do if a coral snake bites you (bind and splint the wound) He finishes with this advice As for snakebite kits, don't bother packing one. No kit removes enough venom to change the outcome of a bite. The fact is, a lot of bites are dry bites, and messing around with an extractor can make it worse. If you remain calm, dress the wound, and walk out slowly you should do fine, even if its not a dry bite. -dave

We also call them hand holes and pull boxes. The concrete ones are also knows as "Quazite" boxes - which is a brand name, much the same way facial tissue is called Kleenex. -dave

Ha ! Just before I read this, I was thinking what I was going to do on Sunday. I said to myself, let me check out some Geocaches in the area, then I remembered I have a 1:30 tee time. I do both, enjoy both, and obsess about neither. One thing that I do not like is courses that MAKE you rent a cart. I prefer to walk. As for exercize, not only is it walking, but go to a driving range and hit 50-60 balls and depending on your overall shape, you may find your shoulders/back a little stiff. Hit 100 or more and you will feel a little something. Interestingly, I am the oppsite of what other people have mentioned. Golf is my "social time" and most of the time Geocaching is my "alone time" - not anti-social but I just happen to like caching alone (or with my 7 year old, but then that's "bonding time") -dave

Good advice. However, it can also happen with a pair of Hi-Tech 50 Peaks. About 3 miles away from, and 1200' higher than the car (In the Fishkills) For what it's worth, I currently have a pair of Vasque Wasatch and Vasque Something-or-Others. To the OP - As Briansnat said, when you find a company that has a boot shape that you like, then you may want to sitck with it. -dave

I just did 27 of them in what amounts to one day (sort of) I was in DC for a dinner meeting. I did some on the afternoon of 3/7 and the other half on the morning of 3/8 before catching a noon train back to NJ. No police problems, no questions, no problems. I came in from the Capitol, went down the mall, and around the tidal basin on day one. And came from the Capital side down the other side of the mall and ended up at the Korean War Memorial on the second day. I didn't think it was all that much walking. -dave

So much for our handles not reflecting our job. I work in telecommunications. National Ouside Plant Construction Support Staff to be specific. My team enables the people who do the real building of the network to do their jobs by doing product design and selection, methods and procedures, saftey processes, budgets, and other assorted oh so exciting things. Thats my current job. I have been everything from a repair foreman to doing software design in the past (for the phone company) - Also was a New York state Utilities Regulator and at one time a geotechinical enginner in a past life -dave

Oh the number of times I have had PI, and the number of treatments I have tried. The best - for me - so far (and I have tried dozens) is as follows. Bad case - for example large area or on my face - a visit to the dermatologist for some prednisone - that works dandy Not so bad case - Zanfel. This stuff works (again, for me) you scrub it into the rash and then rinse well. Supposedly it binds to the urushol and removes it. It's not cheap at $40 for a tube. However, I have found generic store brands (CVS Pharamacy to be specific) that are half the price and work just as well (same ingredients) Tech-Nu does work too. I have used it for years, but Zanfel works better and faster. -dave

The biggest "container" that was designed as a container and not something else, that I have encountered was a 55 gallon drum. -dave

They all taste like wet oats to me. Typical on a day hike; Some sort of "bar" - power, cliff, etc. just because they keep and they don't "Smoosh up" An apple Some trail mix of some sort - may be just rasins and peanuts, may be something else. 90% of the time it goes uneaten anyway. Tuna - those vacum packed bags of it. Star-Kist I think. The Lemon-pepper is good. It's like 2.5 servings a bag. It's just a boatload of protein (that apple is for the carbs) and quite tasty. It also packs very well. I used to take jerky (or jeeze, landjager - mmmm try those on for size, if you want to talk about fat and protein) but it would just get too salty most of the time. I like the tuna better. A packet of Gatoraide/Power Aide or some such glucose drink. Most of the time that goes unused as well. But it does help if I start really dogging it. Water - depending on temp and length of hike -dave

Sorry. Untrue. Geocachers generally do not place caches on property where they don't have permission, while hunters often hunt property without permission, or the owners knowlege, kill animials there and contaminate the property with stray bullets made of lead. First, All you have to do is look at all the current threads of caches being mistaken for bombs under bridges, near schools, near power lines etc to refute the first claim. In addition, there are the cache reviewers that serve as a filter to remove most of teh caches that are placed incorrectly. As far as hunting where they are not supposed to be, my experence is that hunters who hunt on posted land very often are also not properly licensed, and often not in posession of a hunting safety course certificate. At least here in NJ, Game Wardens and property owners are VERY aware of who is hunting where. I have had family members involved in incidents where they shot a deer and it ran and dropped about 10' off a posted tree line. They retreived it, and after hauling it out, they were approached by both a Warden and the property owner. After explaining what happend, all parties shook hands and went on their way, but people are watching. (edited out the last paragraph.) For reference, there are over 200,000 active caches right now, and the frequency that problems arise from them being mistaken as bombs or placed under power lines in absurdly low. Let's assume you have read about 100 "bad" caches in the forums, which I think is a high number. Now just to be fair, assume for every bad cache reported, there are 10 more out there that no-one talks about, and just to make the math easier, let's multiply that number by 2. This works out to 1% of the caches being placed where they don't have permission. Now let's arbitrarily assume the number is actually 10%. I said "Geocachers generally do not place caches on property where they don't have permission" and I stand by that claim. Unless you can come up with other numbers, of course. I also said: "hunters often hunt property without permission, or the owners knowlege". Since I can't come up with numbers to support my opinion, I can only describe my experience in NY. The law does not require hunters to ask permission to hunt on private property. It is very clearly stated that they can't hunt within 500' of an occupied dwelling and they only need to keep off property that is posted at the owners expense with No Hunting signs every 660' on the property line. In the 20 years I have owned property in NY, I have only been asked twice if people could hunt my property. Both times they got permission, but judging by the trash, shells and remains of deer carcasses I have found over the years, I can state as a fact that the majority of hunting done on my property is done without my knowlege or permission. I also said hunters kill animals. That is the goal of hunting. To kill an animal. I also said hunters contaminate property with stray bullets made of lead. Another statement of fact. Any bullet that does not hit it's target is by definition, a stray bullet. Bullets are made of lead. Unless a hunter tracks down and removes every bullet they shoot, they are contaminating the environment with lead. If anyone can present facts or data to refute any of the points I have made, I would like to see them. And please note I did not say hunting or hunter's were bad, or killing animals is wrong. In my opinion, wearing blaze orange during hunting season is a good idea. I am not going to get into a numbers game here, because the case you are tyring to prove is ill defined. You stated that "Geocachers generally do not place caches on property where they don't have permission" and I responded with exidence of poorly placed caches. That was poor evidence on my part. To correctly respond to your assertatin, I would have to know how many caches were placed with permission and how many were not. I have no way of knowing this. I can assume that any caches that were approved in areas where the land manager requires permission were placed correctly, or else the approver would reject them. However, I have found my share of caches placed in parking lots, parks, under bridges, and other such places. I am fairly certain that the hiders did not contact with local parks department, the Starbucks Home Office, the Wall-Mart headquarters, Cracker Barrel central command, or whoever else owns these properties. These caches were palced witout permission. And yes, placeing a kid a key under a lamp post skirt in the back corner of some K-Mart is a lot different than tresspassing onto posted land and taking a deer. I am truly sorry that some morons see fit to trespass on your posted land and take deer. I am also glad to see that you did not refuse access to those who did ask for it. As far as the point of hunting is to kill an animal. In my case - not true. in others, it is. In hunting, much like in most of life, you take away what you put into it. With the subject of lead. I cannnot argue with you there. I have never left a casing in the woods. But I have found (and carried out quite a few). And yes, orange is good. -dave

Isn't Melvins below the NNJ SNJ line? Probably --- but i didn't do anything challenging this year above route 78! Yep, I didn't see a log from you for Maneater or Indefatigable. Sheesh, I don't see a log for anyone for Indefatigable (except KBer). Indefatigable Saving it for 200 - Should be just getting cold around then (I hope) -dave

Sorry. Untrue. Geocachers generally do not place caches on property where they don't have permission, while hunters often hunt property without permission, or the owners knowlege, kill animials there and contaminate the property with stray bullets made of lead. First, All you have to do is look at all the current threads of caches being mistaken for bombs under bridges, near schools, near power lines etc to refute the first claim. In addition, there are the cache reviewers that serve as a filter to remove most of teh caches that are placed incorrectly. As far as hunting where they are not supposed to be, my experence is that hunters who hunt on posted land very often are also not properly licensed, and often not in posession of a hunting safety course certificate. At least here in NJ, Game Wardens and property owners are VERY aware of who is hunting where. I have had family members involved in incidents where they shot a deer and it ran and dropped about 10' off a posted tree line. They retreived it, and after hauling it out, they were approached by both a Warden and the property owner. After explaining what happend, all parties shook hands and went on their way, but people are watching. I can't tell you the number of times that I have been stopped by Game Wardens for; License Check, tranportation of firearms check, crossing logging roads unloaded checks, bag limit checks, - it all happens. And yes, depending on the season - hunter orange check. Nobody is at the trail head though, checking that the hiker entering the woods is not wearing a pair of jeans and a cotton sweatshirt, and carrying a can of soda and a bag of chips. Not until SAR is called out that evening that is. So lets everyone all wear orange (except the bow hunters) and all get along sharing the wilderness that is everyones right. -dave

Telenet! Weren't they the ones that offered PCPursuit? You paid a flat fee every month for, basically, cheap modem long distance. And by "cheap" I mean $30 a month plus $1.50 an hour, which was a BIG savings then. I used to dial up little local BBSs all over the country. I remember a Pentagon computer being on one of the crack lists -- username: rocky password: bullwinkle. I never had the courage to try it, but I got into the McDonald's in-house network once. Then I remembered I was a grownup and I had things to lose. Sobering thought, that. I never bought into the "their security was so lousy, we're doing them a favor by breaking in" mentality...but, honestly, you ran into some of the stupidest stuff. The first local network in my building at work, you hit F7 to drop down to DOS, asked for a directory listing, and there was a file called passwds.txt. Yeah, guess what was in that? Oh. Sorry. I am so off topic. Do you ever get a glimpse of yourself hobbling around the old folks' home shaking your fist and saying, "no smarty-pants broadband access when we were young! No sir! It was a 300 baud acoustic coupler for us! You jammed that telephone right down on the suction cup, and it was off to the races! Now, some people think "baud" means "bits per second," but it ain't quite so simple..." dadgum deisgner phones. Don't fit into the coupler

It was a variation on the failed warchalking concept. It's kind of like how Geo gets geoappended to geoeverything around geohere. I thought all this "war" stuff came from Wardialing. Back in the day (geeze, did I just say that) a wardialer was a machine that would dial all the numbers in a exchange and listen for a computer at the other end. When it got a good tone, it would record the number. You would plug your wardialer in, go out for the day, and when you returned you would have a list of numbers that you could then call with your trusty 900 baud modem and try to hack into Now lets all get out our Captain Crunch whistles while we are at it. -dave I still have a copy of toneloc around here somewhere. What great software. Start it at night and by morning you have a list of computers to try and hack. My first real hack with it was UofM gopher server. Password was an easy guess of gomblue. Gave me access to what was then called ARPANet. Those were the days. Yes The days of ASCII graphics, dial-up BBS's and 5.25" disks Non of this GUI, pointing device, high speed internet stuff -dave

It was a variation on the failed warchalking concept. It's kind of like how Geo gets geoappended to geoeverything around geohere. I thought all this "war" stuff came from Wardialing. Back in the day (geeze, did I just say that) a wardialer was a machine that would dial all the numbers in a exchange and listen for a computer at the other end. When it got a good tone, it would record the number. You would plug your wardialer in, go out for the day, and when you returned you would have a list of numbers that you could then call with your trusty 900 baud modem and try to hack into Now lets all get out our Captain Crunch whistles while we are at it. -dave

How do you know the probability that these three manufacturers use in generating their EPEs? I find it odd, but plausible that a 50/50 threshold woudl be used. Normally 90% or 95% confidence is used since that is a reasonably high value. A 50/50 confidence that you measurement is inside this distance is not a very useful confidence level. To say a manufacturer uses an even lower confidence level than 50% to establish an EPE distance sounds pretty silly. Think about it, what do you do with a reading that is 50% or less likely to be right??? Just somthing else. Its not %50 likely to be right. In fact, its most likely to be less than 1% right. Its 50% likely to be less than or greater than the reported EPE. That is an important difference. -dave

How do you know the probability that these three manufacturers use in generating their EPEs? I find it odd, but plausible that a 50/50 threshold woudl be used. Normally 90% or 95% confidence is used since that is a reasonably high value. A 50/50 confidence that you measurement is inside this distance is not a very useful confidence level. To say a manufacturer uses an even lower confidence level than 50% to establish an EPE distance sounds pretty silly. Think about it, what do you do with a reading that is 50% or less likely to be right??? Here is some information in a concise spot - Error Measures: What do they mean this will explain to you confidence levels and a rudimentary understanding of what sigma is in accuracy measurment. This GPS Accuracy is a little more in depth, but is not that complicated. The author is very straightfoward and his writing is easy to understand GPS Information . net has a lot of good info on it as well. They did get a response from Garmin engineering on the accuracy of the EPE - and here is the response The EPE is an estimation based upon the information the receiver can determine. SA consists of artificial clock errors and artificial ephemeral errors. Both of these effects, as well as atmospheric effects, can result in a positional area of uncer- tainty, which can be measured and will add to the receivers EPE. Bias errors cannot be measured and will typically not be detected in the EPE calculation. The 12XL will typically have a better EPE than other units due to the 12 channel correlator and the use of all tracked satellites in the positional computation. EPE is an estimation, rather than a measurement, but all measurable factors are used in the estimation algorithm. We consider the details of our EPE and FOM calculations proprietary. We calculate EPE our own way. URE and HDOP are definitely significant factors in the calculation. We calculate an over- determined solution, and fully understand the characteristics of SA, and are able (in our opinion) to provide for a better estimate of current position error than the simplistic calcula- tions will indicate. Many folks have and will demand to know our specific calcula- tions, but we consider these to be proprietary and we do not release the specific formulas. This is similar in our FOM calculation, we use a lot of finesse in our software which other manufacturers have not been able to duplicate. This is further evidenced by Dr. Wilson's reports on our accuracy compared to other receivers. If the tests were performed, I believe you would see closer correlation between our EPE values and actual errors, as compared to other manufacturers units. Garmin International Some key phrases "EPE is an estimation, rather than a measurement, but all measurable factors are used in the estimation algorithm" and "I believe you would see closer correlation between our EPE values and actual errors" As I said in my original post - EPE is not a error - it is an ESTIMATION of error. Garmin is not going to release its proprietary calculations, but as was alluded to in the response,. tests have been performed (by people with WAAAAY more time than I have) using highly accurate surverying GPS/r units. These tests can be used to calculate the cofidence level that the civilian GPS/r's that we use are operating at. Here is a direct quote from Magellin on its Meridian receivers - from the manual Accuracy Position 7 meters, 95% 2D RMS w/WAAS <3 meters, 95% 2D RMS So right off the bat, the receiver itself is only 95% sure its within 7 (or 3) meters at any given time. And this is with ideal sat lock. Again, the EPE that is reported to the user, is a computed value, obtained by propritery calculations. -dave

This is just some poor logic 1) "I guess it is just a conspiracy by the blaze orange dye manufacturers and the government as a way to get rid of their hard to sell colored products." - Nope, its common sense and safety. The great majority of hunters (of which I am one) identify their targets before they shoot. But accidents do happen, and wearing orange helps to lessen the incident of those accidents. A valid analogy is motorists. No motorist wants to hit people, and no sane motorist goes out looking to hit people, yet crossing guards and traffic control officers wear orange vests. Well, why do they have to wear them, if nobody is trying to hit them, and everybody is driving safely, they should not have to wear them. Same reason - accidents do happen, and if something as simple as wearing an orange vest can avert just one accident - either from hunting or driving - isn't it worth it? 2) I myself do not know any hunters that drink while hunting (I know several that drink AFTER hunting) I personally would not want to associate myself with anybody who does drink while shooting, perhaps that’s why I do not know any who do. I do not doubt that you know some hunters that do drink while hunting. But the point that I am trying to make, and that I believe the others hunters in this thread were trying to make, is that the vast majority of hunters are very safe and responsible people. We, as hunters, will admit that there are bad apples in the bunch, but we take umbrage when we are all painted with the same brush. We all know there are people who drink and drive out there, but there are also a lot of responsible drivers out there who would never get behind the wheel while intoxicated. Yet nobody ever makes the statement "watch out when you go walking down the street, because you don't want to get hit by those drunken drivers that are all over the place" . Nobody says to you "Oh, you have a drivers license, you must be an irresponsible drunkard". It is that broad stereotyping that gets most hunter’s hackles up. So, just as you would wear an orange vest if you were directing traffic, or would look both ways when crossing the street - even at a light, you should still wear orange in the woods during hunting seasons. The vast majority of hunters are safe and sober, but accidents can and will happen, and an orange vest can help prevent them. Just as you would not call a person irresponsible because they have a drivers license, you should not do the same just because they have a hunting license. -dave

I read this article somewhere as well, and for the life of me cannot remember where. They have hikes in the National Parks waypointed. There is also a cache or two hidden OUTSIDE of the National Parks. That much I do remember. Nothing physical is hidden in the National Parks. -dave

The thing is, you need to understand what your GPS/r is telling you. Garmin uses EPE - which is Estimated Potential Error. Notice that it is not potential error - but estimated potential. If it was potential error, then you could say, for example, that you are within 15' of the spot or 10' or whatever your GPS/r reads. You cannot do that, because not only do you have a potential error, but you are also estimating just how big that potential error is. Garmin's is about a 50% probability that the ACTUAL error is LARGER than estimated. (and conversely 50% error that it’s smaller) So what does this mean? It means letting your Garmin settle down and read an EPE of 10' mean that the unit it telling you the real spot has a 50/50 chance of being more or less than 10' away. There is no way to be 100% sure that you within a certain radius of error. However, if you multiply Garmin's EPE number by 2, it will put you in the 95% confidence level. So if your EPE reads 10', you can be 95% certain that you are no more than 20' away. Any people wonder why they can be hard to find Magellan’s EPE numbers are even less confident, and Lowrence’s are slightly better. This in no way is a bearing on the accuracy of the unit; it’s just the convention the designers decided to use. When they program the unit, they decide what confidence level to report the EPE at, that’s all. So, what does this all mean? Not much; just let the unit settle, get your EPE as low as possible, and realize that it could still be off, especially when you factor in the error on the finders GPS/r -dave

Better ? -dave

Not that I know of, but "Plainly" Off Your Rocker (GCMZTV) is about a 1/4 mile down the road as is SBUX 2-Cachuccino (GCGMJK). These are both quick dash n' cache micros. Tree Stomper X2 (GCNAFJ) looks very close - right behind the park - but you can't get there from here , you have to drive around to the other side of the park to access it. -dave

I had to follow the link for "two static wheels" What the heck is a static wheel. If they are static, then they don't turn, if they don't roll what they are they on the vehicle for. Ah, now I see what they are calling a static wheel. Never heard them called that before. And I never really thought of them as an automobile "feature" either. -dave

I had a cache in a tree about 16' up. There was a wire loop on the cache, and a "cache retreival tool" (stilck with a hook) hidden nearby. The clues gave the general indication of where the tool was. If you did not get the cache down from the tree, it was not a find. -dave