Dulce-Joy

The Windows Phone 7 app in NOT free. The app that is free for WP7 is a 'Lite' version which will only let you use the full app for 3 caches and that's it. Basically if you want the actual full app, it'll cost you $30. Quite a few of us disagree with the fact that if you are on a Windows Phone you have to pay $30 to get what iPhone users and Android users get for $10. It should be $10 for everyone as it was.

I've had this same problem (Windows 7) ever since they brought out the OSM maps. Edit: Also, if you move the toolbar on the left of the map, and you move the cursor over the cache icons, the names of the caches will appear in the upper left-hand corner of the map.

If they bring Google maps back to PM, I will have no problem dumping my GM script. If they ask for more money for a PM I will be upset. If the ask for more money to allow PM's to get Google maps but what they have now for no increase of my PM my GM script will probably stay. Edit: But then this begs the question is what we get back; the previous beta maps with all the warts and problems, the current leaflet framework with all its warts and problems or a whole new kettle of fish with new warts and new problems. Some times it is good to be wary of what you wish for. jholly - Outside of the complains about satellite images loading slowly, and other map tile related issues, what other 'warts' does the Leaflet map have that need to be addressed? -Raine You hit the big ones. The satellite view is definitely worse than Google's. A minor blemish is the scale does not move to the left when closing the left pane like the zoom controls. The other, and I realize it is a cost issue, is the topos. Google has better topo maps. I was not critical of your move that you made with the maps, it was completely understandable and I supported your moves. I am glad something was done to resolve the issues. I wait to see what is coming. Actually I find the Google maps with the leaflet framework to be quite nice. Oh, and can we have an option of turning on all the other caches in the area when viewing a PQ map? I really started liking that and miss it now that it was taken away by popular request. Another blemish is when you're looking at the map and you run over the caches with the cursor, in some areas of the map the caches are clickable and on other parts the cursor will just not click on a cache.

Oh my goodness! Can we say 'going to the extreme'? How often are people "blown up" than not? That's one of the reasons why we are losing our rights.

I completely understand and agree with what you are saying, Bluescorpius. Anymore these days it's like we are being told that for "Safety and Security" we are being protected from ourselves for our own good insteading treating us like the adults we are. Our personal rights are being taken away in the name of "safety" instead of people actually using their brains to assess the situation before jumping to conclusions (extremes). A person shouldn't have to explain themselves irregardless of what they are doing. Even if they say, "If you're not doing anything wrong you shouldn't have a problem in explaining yourself". We shouldn't HAVE to explain ourselves. Suspicious is one thing, eccentric is quite another.

I think we've figured out who the pig in the mud is.... Thanks a lot for continuing to run our concerns through the mud. I wouldn't do something like that to you.

Exactly what I was thinking. So basically if you're on the iPhone= you get to use your $10 app, if you're on Android= you get to use a $10 app, if you're on Windows Phone= you don't have a $10 app to use. So Windows Phone is the only one without a full app option for the non-premium member? All Windows Phone gets is a trial version, same as iPhone, except Windows Phone's trial version has less than iPhone's trial version. Yeah, real fair.

Thank you AmorFati. You are a smart guy. You know exactly what you're (and I'm) talking about.

Thank you Mr. Yuck. I think when most of us started to try to help you with your concerns, it is because we truly thought they were just that, concerns. However when presented with facts such as iphone and Android basic members DO NOT get unlimited access to cache listings however have the same restrictions as WinPhone users new app you still continue to want to rant, regardless (or is that irregardless?) of the fact that it appears the only unfair treatment is that WinPhone users are now being given preference over other app users. It even appears from a previous recent post that they are refunding the $10. Definition: Free ride. There is a saying that you should not wrestle with a pig in mud. You get frustrated and the pig enjoys it. It has become apparent some of you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing and really don't have any concerns one way or another. Andronicus seemed to figure this out much earlier than I. Since there are only 2 or 3 of you seeking a handout, and GS agreed to give it to you via an unwarranted refund, there is no point in anyone responding to this little tirade for tirades sake any longer. Huh? Where did that come from? Mr.Yuck explained it quite clearly, and you still misunderstood him and said the exact opposite. Andronicus does NOT have this figured out and I know I am not arguing for arguement's sake. You keep saying that everyone is trying to help with our concerns, the only people that can help is Groundspeak. I had an honest concern and you are running it through the mud. I give up. Forget it.

I'm not answering for Dulce-Joy, but the email sent out to non-premium WP7 app users is posted in Post #75 The difference is that they will no longer have unlimited access to the cache listings, while Iphone and Droid Geocaching app non-premium users will. Members only caches not included, no non-premium members get them, no matter which phone they have. Thank you Mr. Yuck.

Yes, with the exception yours is becoming free. Without the premium membership, it will work very similar to your upcoming free app, we just still have to pay $10. I don't know how to explain this anymore clearly. No, your $10 app is NOT the same as the upcoming "free" app. Compare the features. Irregardless, I know this is wrong, as do many others. For me it was never about having a debate, it was to get the word out. If we can't even get a response from GS, or even a chance for a change, then I believe I am done with this. Just one more big business. Thank you all for your time.

Tell me, does being on iPhone and Android allow you to keep your $10 app without becoming a premium member? If the answer is yes, then why can't we? How is the $10 Windows Phone app any different than the $10 iPhone app, or the $10 Android app?

In terms of apps, $10 is more than most. In terms of geocaching, it is almost free. Most serious cachers pay $30 per year for a PM, they pay $6 for a single Travel Bug, they pay $400 for a Garmin Colorado GPSr, they pay $60 for a tank of gas for a day of chaching, they pay $5 for a coffee before heading, ... on and on it goes. Please stop the "Ive been defrauded over $10" routine. No one is simpythising. Ok send me $10 for free, thats exactly what i did to Groundspeak, because app will be soon unusable. Want my paypal account? Lets face it, you didn't get nothing. You got more than a year of service, all the way till end of March 2013 I will send you $10, but then you have provide me with convinient fast access to a list of more than 1million geocaches on my WindowsPhone for one year. Send me your paypal account when you have that setup, and I will give you the $10. It will be no problem if Groundspeak will provide an API for that, read more about it in forum. And actually there wasnt any claim from Groundspeak that application will end in March 2013 when i purchased it. Thats the problem friend. My last reaction to your comments Andronicus, You are not going to change our opinions on this matter. Stop trying to act all 'higher than thou' with the people that you don't agree with. This is not about whether or not you think we deserve somthing, it's not your decision. We are not asking you to sympathize with us, I know I, for one, do not want your sympathy. I think the only thing we are asking for is understanding before people start making up their minds. This is wrong, Andronicus, and nothing you say will change how we feel about this.

Thank you AmorFati!! Exactly!! What you wrote is absolutely PERFECT!

Ridiculous argument. ... Here is the thing about PM caches. I found and logged 5 PM caches by myself (no help from a PM) before I had a PM. So the whole "I can't access PM caches" doesn't ring true for me. The reason I didn't have a PM is that I had a Windows Mobile app called GCzII. Honestly, it provided most of the PM benefits. I could download large quantities of caches, then sort by, first distance, then cache size, and then I had what was essentially a PQ for the area. I finally upgraded to a PM when I felt guilty, not for lack of features. The whole point with PM/BM is that it is always free to geocache, but it is going to be a pain in the a@# if you don't upgrade to a PM. Why would GS want to keep supporting an app that would counter their own philosophy. I do get the argument that you spent your $10 under false pretensed, and I wont try to say that that is OK. All I can say is that there are a lot of other apps that do that as well. eg. Garmin, GEOBasic. There are plenty more. I don't think it is OK, but it happens. Be happy that it was only $10. And aren't they supporting it untill end of March 2013. I think that by then you will have more than got your moneys worth. Will you even have a Windows phone still? You sound more like an Android guy. Ugh... Give me a break.

How does the $10 app give you the same privileges and features as a $30 premium membership????? I do NOT get to see the Premium Caches as a basic member using the $10 app.

I am only replying to this since you mistakenly chose my post to make this comment about. I haven't seen any posts here in this thread take a shot at any one who chooses to be a member, in fact in the part of my post you chose to snip I said that a viable option was to us a PC to get the cache information via the regular member status. I also do not believe that the $30 is necessarily because some can not afford it or is cheap. The $30 is well worth it for me, however many I have cached with do not see the value as there are also many here in the forums that do not. If it has no value add for them, they do not have to justify to anyone their decision. The "free ride" comment (that I used) was in response to Dulce-Joy indicating they wanted the full PM privileges simply for buying a inexpensive app when those that purchased the iPhone app, Android app or for that matter Windows 7 Home Premium pay the $30 for membership. I went back and looked through the thread and i think maybe there is an over sensitivity thing happening here, because the only thing remotely close to what you say "are coming in" is Coldgears attempt to justify the $30, and even that would be a stretch. And I would like to just clear up in case anyone is reading this part is that I did not say that I "...wanted the full PM privileges simply for buying a inexpensive app...". And that was never the point. It was only about getting and keeping a fully functioning app that was already paid for, not premium member benefits. It's only about the app. I just don't want any misunderstanding, and I am hoping that Groundspeak is reading this and will let us know what is going on. Thank you.

But you can afford a smartphone and monthly service? Outside of North America, mobile plans are much better. Also, consider phones that were given as gifts or won in a contest - they don't need up front data plans to be used. Also consider carriers who offer you-only-pay-what-you-use data plans instead of a flat fee for so many MB/GB. I thought I'd show Roman! the above quote. Me thinks you have more serious problems than worrying about some app then. Maybe it's time to cancel your smart phone and go prepaid and I'd also recommend disconnecting Internet, that can run, what, $30/month. You are where you are because that's where you choose to be. Not everyone is in the same situation.

Yeap. Exactly what AZcachemeister said.

Huh? I don't understand your point. What free ride? Seriously, I really don't understand. To use the Geocaching app on iPhone and Android, you pay $10 right? That's what we did as Window Phone users, pay $10 dollars. Where is the free ride? Future users will have access to an app that is a lite version, just like iPhone's trial version, but with less access. Where is the free ride? I'm really trying to understand your logic. Maybe I'm missing something, let me know. If I am reading the thread correctly, and quite frankly the logic is very convoluted, it reads like you were getting full PM access with your app whether or not you were actually a PM. If that is wrong, I apologize. Lines similar to this (from you) is where the free ride comment originated; "All Windows Phone users should be able to pay the $10 and to have a fully functioning app now and in the future without having to become premium members." That notwithstanding, Window phones simply to not have a significant market share for developers to pay it any serious attention. This may or may not factor into GS's decision, however when you have Symbian and Android siting at the top, followed by Blackberry and iPhone, I can't see a phone that does not rank in even the top 5 warranting any real resources. May not seem fair, but business works this way. No, as I was saying above, "...but if it becomes the case that Window Phone users are required to have a premium membership to use a fully functioning app without any restriction, aside from premium benefits..." We did not receive Premium Benefits on the app as a basic member, we only received the full use of the app, for which we paid. Thank you for explaining, know I understood what it was that you had thought.

Huh? I don't understand your point. What free ride? Seriously, I really don't understand. To use the Geocaching app on iPhone and Android, you pay $10 right? That's what we did as Window Phone users, pay $10 dollars. Where is the free ride? Future users will have access to an app that is a lite version, just like iPhone's trial version, but with less access. Where is the free ride? I'm really trying to understand your logic. Maybe I'm missing something, let me know.

Any word?

I just signed-in on my ANDROID phone using my non-premium account. I was able to view many more than three Geocaches. I didn't try to 'save' any of the information because there isn't a need to do so to go caching. Thank you AZcachemeister.

Honestly, we haven't completely decided yet, but if it becomes the case that Window Phone users are required to have a premium membership to use a fully functioning app without any restriction, aside from premium benefits, it just might mean the end of our geocaching. This just seems kind of crooked and I don't know if this is something that we want to deal with. We'll decide when the time comes.

Since the WP app is simply moving to the latest API, the same API that Android and iPhone are already using, I'm pretty sure that puts everyone in the same boat. Well, except the new WP app will be free. So WP users are actually in a better boat. I know the trial for iPhone was free, so basically this Lite version would be the same as that. That's not a better boat. We paid for our app, just as the other phone platforms did. Just because they are moving to the same API as everyone else, does that mean that Windows users are supposed to be penalized? If what Lil Devil has suggested is correct Win users are not (being penalized). Are there any non-Premium members out there who are using either the iPhone or Android platform who can verify whether they also are limited to 3 caches per day, etc? When I was using the trial version on the iPhone we could only get the closest 3 caches (with descriptions) to our location but, as often as we wanted for as long as we wanted. And yes, as I see it, we are being penalized. We already paid for the app. On the iPhone and Android did you pay for your app? Or do you have to be a premium member to use the app?