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Johnny Rango

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Posts posted by Johnny Rango

  1. Caveat emptor.


    I am wondering why everyone is upset about this. It's just a coin. They aren't selling them as trackable coins on the geocaching site.


    They are similar, but not identical. While this may not be authorized there is nothing wrong with having something that is "unauthorized". There is nothing illegal about a coin that is similar to another.


    They aren't advertised as geocoins. (Besides, even if they were it wouldn't matter. Any coin can be a geocoin. I have a quarter ad I can call it a geocoin if I want.)


    I understand that the designer might be irritated but why would anyone else care?


    I doubt eBay will do anything. Someone is selling a coin. They are advertising it as a coin. It is a coin. Which came first- the chicken or the egg? How would eBay know which is which? This is much ado about nothing.


    I'll give you another reason why it's wrong. When I, as a collector, decide to buy a coin I am basing it on the the original, the number of copies minted and and the desirability of the coin. Now some one comes along who does not recognize intellectual property, makes another thousand of this coin and not only ruins the market but makes it difficult to determine if you are buying a legit coin or not.


    It's just bad form all the way around.

  2. When I started caching in June of last year I was and still am very careful to move coins along. For the first five months I watched them keenly to see how they tracked and that was when I noticed they were disappearing. It prompted me to start talking to the locals and understand what was happening and that was when I learned there are people who rush to grab them and put them in their collections or loose them or forget to log them altogether.


    No matter which it really does suck. It seemed a shame to me for a few to ruin it for everyone. I'm not posh enough to send real coins out for someone else to swipe but I wanted to try and find a way to keep the fun going. I decided to do proxies and make them as close to the look and feel of the real thing as possible. I think there's a thread on the forums (or so I've heard) but you can buy washers, print good copies on a photoprinter and laminate the images to the washer. Then I like to put it in an airtite container and include a paper about the mission and nature of the coin.


    You will also want to put the word "Proxy" in the title of the coin so it's easy to determine by looking that its a proxy and not a real coin. Personally I don't see it any different than a TB but some get all in a dither about it. I say do what you are comfortable doing and just enjoy it. If you can afford to drop coins and it doesn't bother you one way or another then so be it but don't let the real thieves out there keep you from enjoying or allowing others to enjoy it even if it means using proxies.


    My 2 cents worth.

  3. Personally I decided to leave proxies since caching is about the enjoyment of finding and sharing and not about padding a collectors book. I think thepeterstrio said it best and like them I try to make the proxy something special. I’ve gone to great trouble to make them feel and look like a real coin and I mark them as Proxy in the name so there can be no confusion. As for someone throwing them out, sad really sad since a proxy is no different than a TB. Don’t worry about those who get upset, let them stew, at least you won’t be stewing when one disappears; a proxy is easy to replace.


    Other than not appearing in the cache inventory for those of you who seek caches with trackables, what is the problem with this scenario?



    Apparently lost in all my wordiness. <_<


    No, I understand your wordiness perfectly. I'm just not sure your examples apply in general, OR that having an icon in an inventory improves coin movement/history/achieving goals, minimizes chance of theft or newbie mistakes, or guarantees anything at all.


    Here's my take on your side-effects:

    1. Trackables languishing in poorly-visited/puzzle caches: this is usually due to remoteness or difficulty, which are independent of the presence of trackables. Yes, an icon might help trackable-seeking cachers revisit these places, but there are plenty of cachers who go for the cache challenge.


    2. No access to coin history or mission: Not sure an icon helps there, either. Read this thread in these forums...


    3. Overlooking coins in full caches: I really don't see how an icon helps. By your own example, you visited a cache and didn't find the coin that was listed among the contents! Yes, micro coins are smaller, but a micro coin in a cache w/out the inventory doesn't mean that it WILL be found in a full cache.


    4. Thief patterns: Maybe my wordiness lost you on this one. How will the "unscrupulous coin coveters" find the coins if they're not listed at all? :P


    We can agree to disagree on all of this - that's what the forums are for, ay?! And I do appreciate that my proposed example would keep you from getting an icon as easily as you would prefer. But there are lots of techniques in geocaching and many different ways to play the game, and I'm wondering how the "lights out" factor might affect (or not) the way other geocachers play the game or look for caches.


    I like my icons as much as the next person, but I am also trying to balance that with trying to ensure that my released coins "last" so that others can enjoy them! It's an ongoing discussion that is improved by a variety of opinions, thoughts, ideas, and the subsequent defense of those ideas, I image. :)


    If you understand then why bother arguing.


    The point is you don't like it the way it is and some of us do. Turns out being able to find caches with coins and plan your hunt around that is one of the reasons those of us who like it the way it is got started which I believe is just as valid. You're comments and those of a few others seem bent on silencing opposition in which case why not just stop putting coins out all together. Seems to me it would be just about the same effect. If you don't want something stolen then either don't leave it out or stop playing. I hate to be so brutally blunt but all of us know the risks of putting coins out when theft is obviously an issue and the way I see it is we start treating coins like TB's or take the risk of letting the coin out and putting up with the risk. Diminishing others joy and method of caching doesn't seem overly friendly or the right way to go about it.


    Sigh, I've gone over my rational limit of two posts per thread so I'll just bugger off now. Enjoy it however you want and leave the rest of us to do the same.

  5. Personally, I define commercial coins as those coins which are produced primarily for a non-cache purpose. For collection and trading. In some regards, any coin can be commercial (at inception or after-market).


    I suppose I would rather say "commemorative" and "signature item" as the two buckets. I still collect "signature items", but I don't really like commemorative edition coins for events, people or subjects that I have no connection to.


    This is the reason that I will actually never sell any of my coins. They still all represent something meaningful to me and occasionally I get a surprise one! :D



    I was curious, in 2008 you sold 98 coins (I believe) of your personal LFD V2 coin. So you did "sell out" to the commercialism of the geocoin world :grin::D


    You define commercial coins as; "produced primarily for non-cache purposes". I was wondering how you made the distinction on which coins are sold for collecting/trading puproses and those that are made for caches?


    By your own definition every coin that is made is a commercial coin because coins have been around long enough and probably 99% of the people who have their fingers in coins in one form or another, know coins are going to end up in collections. You knew when you minted your coin that as you left some in caches, they would end up in collections or possibly even sold on ebay. So by your standards your coin is a commercial coin.


    Let me note that I have no problem with geocoins no matter how they come about so on a personal level, how you went about your coin business is of no big deal to me.


    I've seen others note the same thing in some fashion, they made a personal coin or geocoin, sold it and then when they grew tired of geocoins, then the "commercialism" of it all turned them off. I just find this thread fascinating even if it has gone off track a bit, it's made for some interesting discussions.


    As a person who has 2 personal coins (nontrackable and not sold/cache only - Raiders of the Lost Cache and the Cowgirl Coin [side note: sold maybe 5 of the Raiders for charity way back when] and I actively try to trade back for my Raiders if someone is going to try and sell it) so I understand "old school" thinking in some manner, those coins are just as commercial as anything I outright sell because sooner or later they will end up in collections or probably even on ebay (according to your definition).


    IN the end, things here used to bother me and I just up and decided it doesn't matter what you do or what you say, people are going to find a reason to not like you, not like what you're doing, find anything wrong with what you're doing (coin specific in this case here). There is no way to please everyone. People come and go. I know why I am here and I know why I love coins and why I love designing coins and in the end, people either like something someone does or they don't. If a person doesn't like a coin or where coins have gone, then the problem exists with that person and their thought process. If someone doesn't like coins because they are "too commercial" then they are free to leave and never look back.


    I'll even admit (as Ive done prior) that I am not a fan of the functional (more so the really fancy schmancy ones that are more like instruments coins (but that is my taste). However even though I feel that way, what does it hurt me? If that makes the person who's minting them happy, well shoot that's their right to be happy and it's their money, so have at it. Obviously it makes others happy because they are buying them.


    I've enjoyed seeing people post why they felt there was a slow-down or why they slowed down. It was just my curiosity from what I was seeing on the threads that propmpted me to ask and see what others were seeing in that regard.


    I want to give "props" to all vendors/designers who have been here and have been upstanding in their businesses (I know many don't even look to the threads because of the drama) but I will say that most people don't even realize what vendors do and put up with behind the scenes to put out a coin. Thank goodness there are those of us designing/vending/buying/trading/collecting who still love coins and all that it involves (good or bad) as some of us still find this a fun, frustrating and exciting. Right now all I know is I love working on coin designs even if many of them never get minted and I'm going to continue for as long as I still love the way it makes me feel and if people have an issue with that, well too bad. I think coins can bring alot of happiness and do alot of good we see it here all the time :blink:




    I like your reply, you said a lot of what I was trying to find a way to say. Frankly I don't care why people are into making coins for profit or not. If I like it and am willing to part with my money it's my business. And if someone is in it for profit, why not? It's what makes the world go round.

  6. I’m obviously the odd duck out on this one, oh well.


    I’ve just taken to creating proxies in the place of the real coins. So far the response has been positive but I go to a lot of effort to make them look good with high quality Xerox copies cut to a round and placed in a coinment container with a washer between the front and back copies. At first glance and feel it looks like the real thing. It gives at least as much satisfaction as a travel bug and if it gets lost or destroyed it’s easy to replace. Each one costs me about one to two dollars so the expense isn’t high it’s the time to make them. I've thought about having round tags made to go with coins I mint so that the tag gets released, (the cost is about then same) but considering how sensitive people are about prices I doubt it'll fly.


    Whether it would be meant to punish those of us who do it right or not the net result would be the same. Another downside, imo would be a situation such as: We will be traveling to Michigan this spring to see our daughter graduate. On the trip I plan on hitting all caches listing TB’s and coins and moving them as far as I can. If coins are blacked out then I would have no way of knowing where to even look and with limited time I wouldn’t be able to search for some magic cache with coins in it.


    I’m not saying coin theft isn’t a problem or that I don’t find it irritating because I do but planning to the lowest common denominator is the wrong way to go about it.

  7. Personally, I don't like the idea. As a member and one who is responsible to move the coins I would find it irritating. I often plan a hunt around where I believe coins will be so I can either discover them or trade them and move them on. IMO, it would just take away one of the main elements that interested me in the first place. Now if you want to make them viewable to members only maybe that would work.

  8. ...the price to be $17.95 with geocache.com tracking and icon.


    Curious what everyone thinks of the design.


    2-31-7438462_tn.jpg 2-31-7438461_tn.jpg




    When you say "bare metal", what metal are we talking about? I'm assuming bronze?


    Some design comments:


    o First, I'd recommend rotating the arc of text on the top of the front of the coin so that the letters are not overlapping the jet's (that's a Prowler, right?) starboard wingtip. Rotate the whole arc of text around the coin's center clockwise and center the text between the aircraft's wingtips.

    o If possible, use the same font for the year, and expand the kerning so that the numbers are spread out a bit more. I'm not talking about filling the lower arc entirely, but spacing it out a bit so that it doesn't look cramped (and the rest of the space so empty). I see that you're trying to hold to a "NeverSayDie" top and "Arial" bottom; it could just be that I am not fond of Arial on coins (and that's a personal prejudice). If you stay with Arial, at least increase the kerning so that the year doesn't look so tight and small, and possibly also rotate it so that it, too, is centered between the wingtips.

    o Try expanding out the center logo on the back of the coin a bit so that it fills the background a bit more. It kid of looks like it's swimming in the background. If that's your intention, of course, go for it.

    o And I'd also recommend using a subtle texture for the background of the back of the coin (something like gritty #4). That way, if you ever want to do a future edition using this same back, you can try something like putting a transparent enamel in the background (and the texture will show through).

    o (in fact, you could ask for texture #11 in the background behind the jet; if the mint is willing to orient the hatching along the axis of the aircraft, it could make the background very subtly look like the aircraft is in motion.)


    Last and biggest comment:


    o $17.95 is way, way, way too much to ask for this coin. The standard going price for something like this, even with 3D and possibly two-toning, would be in the neighborhood of $8-10. Even if the aircraft were a completely separate piece to be attached to the front, I still think that $17.95 would be pretty unreasonable (I'd pay $12 for it, though). I think you should definitely reconsider the price.


    I hope this helps, and I'm looking forward to seeing mint art and/or samples of this coin!


    Wow, sorry I missed this, just got busy over the holidays and lost track.


    I am actuallty considerng two tone now along with some sort of way to allieviate the coins theft issue by including a tag to release. I’m still working on that.


    I like the ideas on the design and I’ll make some changes. I wasn’t really a fan of Ariel I just want it to be clean I get irritated when I can’t read test due to fancy fonts.


    Thanks for the info on pricing too, just not sure where to place it. I am used to dealing with retail markups so I will defintely take the advice. I’m trying to get some new quotes and cement some thgouhts on how to deal with coin theft so it may be a bit longer before I get this out and at this point I am not sure how many I will be able to run either.


    Thanks for the info though. Very appreciated.

  9. When people use the term "commercial coin" what does that mean? Coins that are sold?


    I just see that term used and wondering what it's referring to. :unsure:


    Also, I'm beginning to understand now why I don't get many trade offers on cointracking! I do a lot of trading using their service, but don't get many people initiating contact with me. I agree, trading is a ton of fun, and it's part of what led me to creating my own coin. I'm selling the majority to make back the cost of minting, but I have set some aside for trades and have been using them to do so! :D


    When I said that the commercialism of the coins turned me off I meant that coins were suddenly being churned out just for a profit. I don't think of commercial coins as simply all the ones that are being sold. I think of them as the ones that have absolutely nothing to do with geocaching and are sold only for the money they will bring in. They may be pretty works of art and such but to me thay are purely made for a profit. Since I mentioned the Tranquility coin earlier I will again use that as an example of something I think of as purely commericial along with the titanic coin and others along that line.


    It’s interesting to see the different attitudes towards coins. For me it just comes down to what I like and I really hope that it doesn’t get to the point where the only coins are “personal” coins released on a whim by the owners. There are several coins I wouldn’t have were it not for eBay and someone’s willingness to sell them or the trader lists.


    I’m also concerned about the notion of not making them for a profit. I am hoping to save enough money to make a run of coins. They aren’t going to be cheap because I want them done right meaning they will have a unique icon and I am having the tracking info and number stamped on the edge of the coin. I am also hoping to do a new set once each year and I do hope to make enough on them to pay for the next year since I may not be able to fund them otherwise. I am even entertaining the idea of a companion tag so you release the tag instead of the coin. It’s an idea anyway. These are going to be a cross between two of my hobbies. I run a 3D website and enjoy caching. I intend to use our 3D models to help create the coins and promote the site as well as make an artistic and worthwhile coin. I guess I don’t consider that commercialism but in essence it is and like it or not I have to make something on them to make it worthwhile for me. I know that several of our members will buy them as site swag but I liked the idea of merging two of my interests and offering a geocoin.


    I would hope there is enough room for all of us to enjoy coins the way we want. The idea of only personal coins that get traded seems contrary to the whole idea of caching to me simply because it starts putting coins out of the reach of many and certainly out of the reach of those of us just getting started who aren’t known to the old timers or those making personal coins. Even on trading lists I am surprised at the number of supposed traders who don’t ever give you the time of day. IMO, but it would become nothing more than an elitist club and growth would definitely stagnate in that environment. You would essentially be saying don’t bother us, we have our group and we don’t want any new comers. Everyone has their reasons and I don’t see commercialism as bad or good, it just is and because of it there has been a lot of neat coins made available which I enjoy having the opportunity to own. Coins certainly played a part in my interest in caching since TB’s don’t really catch my attention. It would be a shame to discount that.

  10. I don’t know about others or if I am typical or not but here’s how I see it.


    Not sure what the following really has to do with your question but it was mentioned and struck a chord with me so here’s my two cents.


    I’ve only been caching for 7 months and the geocoins are the only items in a cache I will take the time to take and move along, travel bugs are cumbersome and often poorly constructed so the tag and item get separated. AFAIK, TB’s are a big PITA. Coins on the other hand are easy to transport and provide a lot of interest both in finding a cache and in placing them.


    However, in that short 7 months I’ve seen so many coins that I helped move along go MIA and IMO, that stinks. I had planned on releasing several coins until I found that out. Now I am creating proxy coins to release in their place. That’s not an easy task since I really want the proxy’s to have the look and feel of a real coin.


    Now to your question.


    As for coins, I’ve been bitten, I now have nearly 100 coins as keepers and several of those have proxy coins traveling in their place now. I have several I still want to have bought traders to interest those with coins I want. So the fact that coins are going MIA and that I am currently out of work have not dampened my determination to get the coins I want but it has meant I am very discrimination about what I want. I like creative designs that are well thought out or just have good old plain WOW value. Some coins I grab simply because of what they commemorate and others no matter how neat they look I won’t buy for the same reason. The commemorate things I don’t care for but that’s just personal taste. One thing I have noticed is that if you aren’t watching this forum all the time you will probably miss something you do want. That might be a problem for artists if they are hoping to get more sales, I dunno because it seems they are always sold out. The economy certainly plays a role but if people really want something they will find a way to get it. And I guess my last thought is I’ve noticed a fair amount of in-fighting (what look like little political or personal spats) between well known cachers. That could have something to do with people getting out of it due to disillusionment. And finally I think the large number of trashy caches, poorly implemented and poorly maintained may have a role if interest really is dropping. I cannot tell you how many times I have gone to a cache expecting to find something only to find it’s MIA or the cache is half destroyed or MIA itself. When I look through the logs and find the cache has been logged as DNF for five months and the owner hasn’t taken the time to archive or update the cache and they have hundreds of caches out it really is irritating and disheartening. Its things like this that I can see causing someone to decide it isn’t worth it and dropping out. That’s a lot of stuff but hopefully you find something useful in all of that.

  11. Can't believe I've been bit twice in one week with coins I can't find codes for.


    The first one is the Kapiten Haak coin. Supposedly it could be registered at www.kzcoins.nl but I get a dead page for them.


    The other one is a Saffier & stekelsteef Personal geocoin. From what I've been able to determine the code was supposed to come with the coin originally but this one doesn't have the code with it.


    I would sure appreciate any help I can get on these.

    You could try emailing them through their profiles. They have both been on this week.


    Kapiten Haak profile

    Saffier & stekelsteef Personal geocoin you could try Saffier profile.


    Thanks, I just sent an email to Saffier and I tried the kzcoins site again and it worked. Must have been a net glitch, I've seen that before.


    Thanks again for your help. :blink:

  12. Can't believe I've been bit twice in one week with coins I can't find codes for.


    The first one is the Kapiten Haak coin. Supposedly it could be registered at www.kzcoins.nl but I get a dead page for them.


    The other one is a Saffier & stekelsteef Personal geocoin. From what I've been able to determine the code was supposed to come with the coin originally but this one doesn't have the code with it.


    I would sure appreciate any help I can get on these.

  13. ... apparently I cant remember details of what I read this morning.

    Almost 5:30am, I can almost start getting ready for bed.


    No worries, first post. I should have formatted it to be easier to see everything. I've edited the post to answer the questions.

  14. Hi Everyone,


    I've taken the plunge into have a trackable geocoing minted. It's being done as an annual coin for my 3D website so each year the front will change using a new model to for the subject. If you aren't familiar with 3D it's a computer generated model used in anything from architecture to movies. These are the mockups fro the front and back. The "track at geocaching.com" and the tracking number will be on the edge of the coin. The coins will be 1.75" and 3mm. The jet and the center of the coin will be antique gold and the letters will be bare metal. By the comments I forgot to mention that the jet is 3D and I am guessing the price to be $17.95 with geocache.com tracking and icon.


    Curious what everyone thinks of the design.


    2-31-7438462_tn.jpg 2-31-7438461_tn.jpg

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