J the Goat
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Posts posted by J the Goat
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Now that we've answered the OP's question, how about a slightly different angle on the topic - what about logging your own Challenge Cache? Finding the container and signing the log are only a small part of claiming the cache. I've seen a couple of different CO's do it.
I would love to see this as the norm. To me, the point of a challenge cache is typically the challenge itself rather than the final cache, and if you complete the challenge you should be able to log that you completed it.
Having said that, I haven't logged as found any of my own challenge caches, and I won't ever, unless the general consensus on logging owned challenge caches changes.
I would not log one of my own challenge caches. Sure, the majority of the work might be qualifying for completion but it also requires a person to go out and find a container. You're not really finding anything if you know right where it is.
The point is the majority of the work going in to complete the challenge. From what I've found, the vast majority of challenge caches have an easy, non-descript, nothing special hide at the end, and I'm fine with that, because the point of the challenge was the challenge.
Really, challenge caches don't really need the cache at the end at all - they could/should result in a reward by another means... souvenir? But souvenirs devolved into "here's a badge because you found a cache in xxx region or on yyy day" instead of what they were initially intended to be - actual achievements, so they were never going to replace the reward of a challenge. So the only way a challenge can reward someone who completes it is with a smiley, but then the traditional "you can't find your own cache" general opinion gets in the way and means the challenge creator never gets the same reward for completing it.
Oh well...
So would you also argue that those who solve a puzzle should be able to log the find once the puzzle is completed? Same difference...
No, actually quite different. Solving a sudoku is not the same as filling your D/T grid, for example.
I see it as the same. You have to do something other than find the cache in order to say that you found the cache. If cache = container, then the steps you take to get there don't really matter now do they? Filling a grid isn't finding the cache. Searching through HTML codes and researching the migratory patterns of the northern African hippo flea are also extra steps you have to take before you can log that you've found the cache. With geocaching challenges gone now, the cache still = the container, it's just a question of the steps you're willing to take to get there.
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4wf, if I'm ever close enough I wanna go caching with you
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Now that we've answered the OP's question, how about a slightly different angle on the topic - what about logging your own Challenge Cache? Finding the container and signing the log are only a small part of claiming the cache. I've seen a couple of different CO's do it.
I would love to see this as the norm. To me, the point of a challenge cache is typically the challenge itself rather than the final cache, and if you complete the challenge you should be able to log that you completed it.
Having said that, I haven't logged as found any of my own challenge caches, and I won't ever, unless the general consensus on logging owned challenge caches changes.
I would not log one of my own challenge caches. Sure, the majority of the work might be qualifying for completion but it also requires a person to go out and find a container. You're not really finding anything if you know right where it is.
The point is the majority of the work going in to complete the challenge. From what I've found, the vast majority of challenge caches have an easy, non-descript, nothing special hide at the end, and I'm fine with that, because the point of the challenge was the challenge.
Really, challenge caches don't really need the cache at the end at all - they could/should result in a reward by another means... souvenir? But souvenirs devolved into "here's a badge because you found a cache in xxx region or on yyy day" instead of what they were initially intended to be - actual achievements, so they were never going to replace the reward of a challenge. So the only way a challenge can reward someone who completes it is with a smiley, but then the traditional "you can't find your own cache" general opinion gets in the way and means the challenge creator never gets the same reward for completing it.
Oh well...
So would you also argue that those who solve a puzzle should be able to log the find once the puzzle is completed? Same difference...
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As a side note, any chance we can see the montage when it's finished?
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Hey guys, I'll be visiting the greater Portland area in a couple weeks and wanted to touch base with some locals regarding caches/lodging/camp sites (trying to travel cheap)/food (breweries are at the top of the list) in the area. Already planning on visiting Oneonta gorge, but not sure where else we should visit. I'm poking around for ideas myself, but any help is appreciated.
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Again, using the above paper on micro's means " crappy" containers are as good as any and no baggies needed.
On full size caches, of course , you want to keep the contents dry as well so good watertight containers are needed.
For micros, I've found Tyvex to be great stuff.
But even Tyvex can gather mold if left in a damp environment.
Which is why I don't agree that quality documentation mediums are not an excuse for crappy containers.
CR, you're a wordsmith. Hence the reason I quoted you in my sig line, but I digress. There will always be an exception to the rule. An ammo can will fail and let water in. Let's use that as the example for all ammo cans! A film canister will keep the log dry for longer than a week. That means they're all great! Bleh
Take a little pride in your cache and make it a container that's worth finding. -
Agree or disagree, I don't care. I don't even care if you think I am evil and vile. What I care about is staying on topic and keeping our social, political and religious opinions out of this forum
Before the thread gets locked, I apologize if my post falls into the reason why you want the thread closed. I wasn't trying to turn the thread into an opinion piece, just giving a little bit of information to put my opinion on your cache into perspective. Again, my apologies.
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In the interest of laziness, you have my permission to use any of the photos from my gallery in your project. I dunno if that helps or not, but it's worth a mention.
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I have zero experience with fake nuts, or nuts used as caches, but I can't imagine any that would be weatherproof for any significant period of time.
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I once got chastised on a cache page by somebody OTHER than the CO for posting a DNF that explained my distaste for caching near piles of garbage and homeless folks' shopping carts. Meh. Whatever.
Let me guess, they asked you "Did you CITO?". I've seen 4 or 5 minor drama incidents over the years regarding "garbage near Ground Zero" logs, and apparently the CO's natural retort is, Well, did you CITO?
I took the high road and chose not to use the cache page as a forum type argument. I could have easily gotten sucked in with the cacher in question, she happens to be our local "caching expert" or whatever. Has sent me more than one email suggesting that I not make comments about bad coordinates because although said CO's cords are notoriously off, he's just trying to add some fun caches to the area. The suggestion made on the cache page (which is where she chose to indirectly lecture me on my DNF) was that I didn't like the location because I couldn't find it. "This is urban caching at it's best" was in there somewhere. If that's urban caching at it's best, it just reaffirms my dislike of urban caching
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My pair of pennies. Keystone's post aside, given just the information on the OP, I'd say this runs afowl of the agenda guideline. Just for a little perspective, I'm very much in favor of the recent rulings, am straight, and am well aware and irritated by both the double standards that many of my liberal cohorts run with and the bigotry and hypocrisy that many of my conservative friends take part in.
I don't do puzzles. I applaud your effort, however in my eyes, that information promotes an agenda.
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I too prefer to see a DNF before I cough up a hint.
Some folks, like maybe.... ^^^^^ this guy, might even cough up a hint at the logging of a DNF without solicitation
And that's okay too
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Potluck works the best in my experience. The problem I see with events at food type establishments is that, although there is no requirement to buy food, folks feel pressured to pay for dinner if they're at an eatery. A fast food place, you can get away with a soda or a dollar item. At actual restaurants that's not usually the case. A bar/pub would probably work out okay, as you can still just grab a soda or a beer and just sit and visit, it's more the atmosphere of the place.
Potluck still gets my vote
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I was in South Lake Tahoe at a Crapbucks with my laptop doing the PQ thing one day when another young-ish guy walked up to me and started talking to me about caching. He gave me some suggestions on local caches that happened to be right along the lines of what I was looking for, we chatted caching for a few, and then he took off. Pretty cool.
As far as the validation goes, I've been lucky enough to make friends with some of the other cachers in my area, so when it's social time, cache talk is usually involved. My kids like to go, as long as it's not too far out and it doesn't take too long and there are toys to trade....
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Now that we've answered the OP's question, how about a slightly different angle on the topic - what about logging your own Challenge Cache? Finding the container and signing the log are only a small part of claiming the cache. I've seen a couple of different CO's do it.
For me, container = cache. It's no different than a challenging hike or a swim to an island, they're all required to find the cache. The challenge caches requirement is just the hike or the swim. I wouldn't log any caches that I'd hidden, or helped hide, or adopted out as finds. Just me.
On a side note, I'd like to commend TOZ on the decreased length in his post. A
is certainly easier to read than his norm 
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Yet another Letterbox Hybrid is posted in my area where the cache owner apparently planted one to get the LBH icon in their repository of hides (They have Traditional, Multi (1), Event, Earth (1), and Unknown (11) and now LB(1)). They didn't even use directions to the LBH. The stamp has nothing to do with the theme of the cache "There is a "Toy Story" stamp and pad for the letterbox enthusiasts." ...
I'm sorry, this is the first I have ever heard of a theme for a letterbox being required. Some of us are just not that artistic to be able to make a stamp. I don't even know how to make one. My attempt at a LBH was first a stamp made from clay. That didn't work to well, so I just used a store bought stamp. I don't see anything wrong with that, could you enlighten me?
I think it should stay for those who want them, but I think we should be able to do it as a ? cache, or maybe even a field puzzle. I mean we have night caches that are "Go to the co-ords and follow the reflectors" That would just be a LBH available at night.
A letterbox hybrid is all about the stamp. It's the only thing that makes it different from all the other cache types. If no consideration is given to making the stamp the #1 reason for the cache type, what's the point.
The original intend of using a stamp in a letterbox was to use it as evidence that you found that particular box. You could show your logbook to someone as proof that you found for instance, Dragon's Lode letterbox:
The custom made stamp was not one you could buy from the dollar store or Target.
I'm guessing that 99% of geocachers who plant a letterbox have no idea about what a letterbox is and the history behind it, nor do they care and nor do they care about collecting the stamp image. As a letterboxer who collects unique letterbox images, I would be happier if Groundspeak would provide attributes - one for commercial stamp and one for handcarved/custom stamp and grandfather the cache LBH type. Then I could run a PQ for caches that use the handcarved/custom stamp.
I'm getting quite frustrated when I get a new LBH notice in my email to read that someone
- threw a generic stamp in "for the letterboxers"
- or put in a punch instead of a unique stamp
- or there's no stamp at all,
- or in the case of older LBHs the box originally contained a stamp 2 years ago but the stamp went missing and the CO never replaced it but maintained the LBH status.
Throwing a generic run-of-the-mill stamp in the box "for the letterboxers" is insulting to true letterbox fans. If that's what we want we can download a ton of stamp images off the web. It's about finding that one-of-a-kind stamp that defines that box. It's more about the arts & crafts aspect. The letterbox type borders on Art Box.
If you don't want to provide a unique stamp then why are you hiding a letterbox, why not hide a puzzle cache instead. What is the appeal? From my experience, the appeal both for the hider and the finder is the icon. If it's the directional clues, and not the unique stamp, hide a puzzle/mystery.
So, you are saying that they should be eliminated because most of them don't meet your personal standards?
They wouldn't be eliminated. Just the icon. Letterboxes could still be planted for people want to put a stamp in the box for folks to stamp into their letterbox journal. Ideally GS would provide attributes to help indicate that there's a stamp in the box. And like Challenge boxes they could insist that 'Letterbox' be put in the title.
No one who insists on saving the LBH icon has said they care about the stamp and carry a logbook to collect letterbox images. Does anyone who is defending the LBH defending it for the stamp in the box?
If 95% of multi-caches were actually one-stage multis (i.e. a traditional), it seems there would be people insisting GS keep the multi type because they 'like' hunting 'multis'. What they really mean is they like having the multi type icon in their repository of cache finds and hides. Plus they like being rewarded with a new icon and not having to work at creating a true multi stage cache.
So, again I ask, those of you who don't want the LBH to be grandfathered, is the reason the icon, or the stamp?
And again I ask; what difference does it make? Does it affect the way you play your game? Is it hurting anything? I'm not defending the icon, and I'm not defending the stamp. I've only found 1 LBH, and it was a good one. I'll look for the ones that allow for me to follow directions to get to the cache site. I'll ignore the ones that I don't feel like looking for. I suggest you do the same.
I see this as an instance where the person suggesting the change should be giving valid reasons why. It's not up to other folks to give reasons why not. It still looks as if it's just something you don't like and want changed. In my eyes, that's not enough reason to change anything.
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I have one LBH on my hide list, it's gotten pretty positive feedback. It's not often visited though, as that's the kind of cache I like to find...
I used a store bought stamp. I too have no idea how to make one, nor do I have the time or the tools to do one right anyway. I do give directions though, the cords are offset by a little bit more than a quarter of a mile.
My question to the OP is: What does it matter? There are much more pressing issues (my opinion) than cutting out a single cache type strictly because you feel it's not being done the right way. I didn't see any arguments in this thread that justify eliminating a cache type entirely. Permission issues, power trails, permission issues, and permission issues all need to be addressed much quicker than cache type preferences.
Although if we're voting for cache type elimination, puzzle caches get mine...
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List it as a small regular large container. That oughta ruffle some feathers
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As mentioned above, baggies will not keep your log dry. It's all about the container. I like the idea of using the baggie strictly to make the log book more noticeable in the cache, that's about the only thing they're good for.
I've also been told, but don't know enough about them, that the silica gel packs aren't very helpful in caches either, as it's hard to get one that's big enough to absorb enough moisture.
Moral of the story is to use a good container instead of worrying about how to keep the log dry in a crummy one.
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Since we've spiraled this thread from a great OP, to nit picking and angst, can I toss in the obligatory "Micros Suck" comment?
And power trails
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I once got chastised on a cache page by somebody OTHER than the CO for posting a DNF that explained my distaste for caching near piles of garbage and homeless folks' shopping carts. Meh. Whatever.
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Or, if you're loading the caches in one by one, there's a limit to how many it will hold. Delete the caches you've found or aren't going to look for. Once you figure out pocket queries and GSAK, this problem goes away.
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So to add more to this discussion.
1. It has been unarchived and I have been asked to move the cache. I will do so ASAP. No problem with that.
2. I have talked to the finder and they reported it. Again they found it to be unsafe yet they still proceeded to retrieve the cache and replace it. I find that Odd.
3. No where does it say DANGER. The warning stickers clearly read WARNING STAY OUT Hazardous Voltage. Meaning don't cut the lock off and go playing with the innards of the transformer.
4. These Warnings are on the front and the back (Where the cache was located) Mind you on the ground slightly under the concrete slab. You can clearly see the warnings while approaching the cache.
5. Here are photos of the warnings and the LOCK.
As you can see in the picture it clearly state STAY OUT of the box. The danger is inside the box not outside the box.
Wonderful. Now who gave you permission to put the cache there? If you can't answer that question, then the cache shouldn't be there.
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All this fuss over a carppy power box hide? That falls into my eye rolling category. Squarely.
While they're not very clear about restricted areas, one restricted area is very clearly outlined: Private Property. Whether it's permission from the land owner, or permission from the company who's in charge of that tremendously interesting green box, I'm willing to bet you didn't have the permission that makes a hide on private property not restricted. If people would follow the dadgum rules, these issues would essentially cease to come up.
As far as taking your ball and going home, that's your call. Silly in my eyes, but if you're not having fun, good luck finding something else, there's plenty out there.
Take a little pride in your cache and make it a container that's worth finding.
Calling All Cachers!
in General geocaching topics
Posted
Dude, that was an awesome video! I haven't made it through the second one yet, but I think you did a stellar job. The little ammo can baby made me smile, and I was jazzed that you used one of my photos in your montage at the end (little dude in his jammies with a scraped up nose). I might even check out your website now