texasgrillchef

I will check them out. What makes me wonder though.... Is why the quote for the stickers was $4,000 for 7500 (.50 a piece) which isn't bad. So it makes me wonder what the difference between them & what you & a few others are finding? Just curious... Maybe the only difference is that the company I checked with doesn't want to bother will small production runs. Since the cost per sticker is only 50 cents. The part that makes it expensive is the need for 7500 stickers. TGC

@CX1 2. A Virtual would be the counterpart to a "EARTHCACHE" in that an earthcache relates back to some physical/natural item to the planet earth. A Virtual would relate back to something that is "Man-Made" that is of some importance either locally, state, country or even to the planet. Examples of this would be something historical. Historical landmarks, markers etc.. It could relate as well to something of other importance. Example being a big NFL Stadium... In Dallas TExas... this would be the NEW Dallas Cowboys Stadium. Either way. The location MUST be of some SIGNIFICANT Importance to the community. Ie... Virtuals couldn't be placed at Wally World, Or similar. I don't quite agree with section 2. Earthcaches have very strict guidelines that do not account for all things natural. I feel that limiting virtual caches to only "man-made" areas would be too limiting to the potential of virtual caches. I also feel that requiring a 'significant' importance is too subjective and places too great a burden on the reviewing staff. ----------------------------- I agree... That the way I worded that part may in fact be to subjective, & far as placing a burden on the reviewing staff, I honestly can't speak for that since I am not a member of the reviewing staff. lol I however, can visulize that it would be more difficult thats for sure. Yes, I agree Earthcaches do have very strict guidelines. IMHO the guidelines as strict as you say they are, I do feel still lead themselvs back to being "Natural" in some way. Very similar to a discussion my wife & I had about if water is or is not a "Renewable resource". It all goes back to what you consider & define "Natural" as. Since we have "Earthcaches" my thoughts were that Virtuals should relate back to something historical, or some architechual (sp?) achievment. The Empire State Building in NY. WHile now is of historical value as well, is still an architechual achievment. The Hoover dam also an Architechual Achievment, now also of historical value as well. What I just don't want to see...As well as I am sure their are others out there that feel the same way. Virtuals popping up in places that are just plain lame. A Virtual for your favorite restaurant... I don't think so... A Virtual for the OLDEST restaurant in your city or state, or in the country... Maybe??? A Virtual for a restuarant where a PRESIDENT of the United States regurally ate at... Again maybe. One of the biggest problems that I think killed Virtuals before, and why it makes making the new guidelines difficult is this fact on how you "regulate" where they will & won't be placed. That Guideline will ALWAYS be subjective to some point. Other than the part... CAn't place a Virtual wherever you can place a physical instead. TGC

@ FOnty Family Overall, these are an interesting set of guidelines, and I happen to agree with you for the most part...however I would be concerned with phrase above, how could a reviewer in some other part of the country (potentially) make this subjective determination? Would reviewers/GS want to get in this kind of debate with COs?...What is important or significant to one person may not be significant to another... Just to play devil advocate, would you allow a virtual of Walmart's first store/corporate head office in Bentonville, Arkansas? Is the birthplace of Walmart and the retailing revolution it caused, a significant event? It seems that the community views the retailer as significant, as do a search of tourist attractions for this area and it is listed as the top attraction. I personally would not view this as a significant location but I bet there would be people who disagree with me. In my humble opinion GS/reviewers should base any guidelines on objective criteria that they can enforce consistently ------------------------------------------------ There is NO perfect solution or answer for ALL the possibilites in geocaching. Sad but true. This same issue applies to all other types of geocaches as well, it is also one of the biggest concerns those who don't want Virtuals back as well. AS in How do you keep Virtuals from popping up at Wally Worlds, or your favorite BK or Wendies, but allow them at some location that for the local population is an important spot. I will admit... That is a hard thing to do. Especially here in Texas where we suposedly only have ONE reviewer. (Or so was told to me by another thread of mine). Texas has many many historic spots. No one in Texas knows where or what all of them are. The Texas Historical society has over 64,000 Historical markers in Texas! 64,000! WOW.. The only suggestion I can think of, is that when a CO submits a Virtual to be published, he/she should maybe be required to explain to the reviewer WHY a Virtual should be placed here, AND WHY a physical cache can not be placed at the CO's location. Will that work? To play along with your "Devils Advocate". IMHO the FIRST Wally world in Bentonville, AR I think SHOULD have a Virtual. IT IS of significance, historical & otherwise to Bentonville, AR. Thus worthy of a Virtual, PROVIDINGthat WALLY WORLD would not[/b[ allow a physical cache on their property. As with MOST ANY rules in life... there are ALWAYS exceptions. Even that rule has an exception! LOL Thats also why in my list.. I did say of SIGNIFICANT value historically to the local community or larger. Think about this. MOST historical places & events are only important to those locally. Of the 64,000 historical markers in Texas. The Vast majority of those are only significant to THAT area of Texas in which the markers were posted. The State capital of Texas is very important to the State of Texas. Worthy of a Virtual. Yet I am sure people in other states could careless about the State Capital of Texas. TO them... The TExas state capital is of no importance to them. The United States CApital. Honestly At least in most US Citizens eyes, Important for everyone in the world. But to others in other countries they could care less about our United States CApital. I think what one has to keep in mind... is perspective. Thats why... "MAYBE" if the CO would be required to explain to the reviewer Why a virtual should be placed here. Maybe that would help. Maybe it wouldn't. I would like to think it would though. TGC

@Starbrand... Sadly, I know for a fact that the mere availability of such a cache type will have some land managers banning physical caches in a heartbeat. I hope the *new* rules/guidelines somehow inhibit this. --------------- Sadly though, Some land mangers/land owners may still ban physical caches anyways because of the FEW geocachers that aren't respectfull of the land & ruin it for all of us.. Like the saying goes... it only takes one worm, to spoil the bushel of apples. TGC

To CX1 who posted in my other thread... ----- I like this part but with slight modification. I feel a cacher should be allowed to substitute a personal object other then their gps for photographic evidence. I also don't feel that the cacher should be required to be in the picture. I sometimes cache alone for one thing and I know that some people are uncomfortable posting personal images on-line. I also feel it should be allowed for the cache owner to specify a location for the logging photograph to be taken. Some cache owners like their virtual caches to be a surprise to the cache visitors. Allowing the cache owner to specify a particular bench for example would aid in keeping the surprise element of the cache. I suppose that could be what you refer to as "Proof" above but I would rather the specific spot be left up to the cache owner if they desire. -------------- The reason I suggested that the geocacher be allowed to choose between sending a photo & answering the questions is that answering the questions requires an email. Not somthing that is that easy to do from your iPhone or other smartphone app. IF a geocacher is on vacation for 3 weeks. (Such as I am many times) I want to log the cache now, while it's fresh in my memory. But it may take me 3 weeks to send an email to confirm my find. A CO could "Delete" someones found long in the mean time. Photos are very easy to upload using ones iPhone or Smartphone. So this could still be done within a few minutes of finding & logging the Virtual. I do agree, many don't want to post pics of themselvs. I must admit sometimes I am the same way. I don't always want to post a pic of myself either. So your suggestion that maybe that the geocacher doesn't have to pose in the pic be good as well. There is only one other problem with this. If your not carefull, "Armchair Virtual" cachers could effectively log a virtual. Example.. you have a virtual for the STate Capital of Texas. There are many THOUSANDS of pics of the Texas State Capital that one can easily download from the internet. So any pics, would have to be something that you could NOT download from the net. Thats why I originally suggested that the geocacher be in the pic. Yes, you can photoshop yourself into a pic. But their is software to be able to determine you did that too. Must admit though. No easy answer to that question. There will ALWAYS be cheaters in EVERY game. At some point, we will have to accept that their will be a small percentage that will still "Armchair" cache. TGC

This thread is covering everything under the sun about Virtuals... Way to BROAD a topic for one thread... probably one of the reasons this thread is WAY TO LONG allready 7 pages plus. Thats why I started a thread about my idea for guidelines... Nothing more... Nothing less. It is just about if you think MY IDEA of guidelines is good or bad, & why. It isn't about if we should or should not have virtuals. I have NO desires to discuss if we should or shouldn't. I wasn't very pleased about my thread getting locked. What a joke... Freedom of speech here in these forums? Yeah right. Am I PO... You bet I am... am I venting.. of course I am. I have every right to be. If you dont' think so.. Then thats your RIGHT. The reason I started My thread is to discuss my ideas about the Virtual guidelines.. not everything else under the sun about virtuals. TGC

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT MY IDEA... NOT ABOUT THE BS going on in the OTHER THREAD! That is WHY I started this thread in the first place. THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT WHAT is going on in the other TRHEAD.[/b] This thread is about MY IDEA and MY IDEA ONLY... SO Please don't lock it... I have no desire for this thread to go into the discussing the other thread is about. Besides that the other thread is NOW way to long to keep up with. 7 pages allready! WAY TO Many. This thread is about MY Idea... not all the other BS on if we should or should not have virtuals. Seems to me IMHO that the OTHER Thread is mostly about if we should or Should not have Virtuals. This thread is NOT about if we should or should not... but simply about the thoughts of MY ideas of the guidelines... NOTHING more NOTHING less! IF you all have a problem with that.. then the point of having forums & freedom of speech and discussion topics is pointless. JMHO. Now on to a DISCUSSION about MY idea for Virtuals. If you like them or if you don't & why. This thread is NOT about if you want or do not want Virtuals, or if we should or should not have virtuals. Period. As most of us know. Geocaching.com is in the process of returning the Virtual Cache back to us. As I can tell, many of you are happy about this, and many of you are not. Either way they will soon be returning. Here is MY idea for the rules/guidelines around the new Virtual cache. IMHO this would be the best solution to keep the majority of geocachers happy. Both those who support the idea of bringing Virtuals back, and to a few of those who don't want them back. Here is the list... (My Idea) 1. Virtuals would ONLY be allowed where a PHYSICAL cache can NOT be placed for any reason. Exmaples of this, where a physical cache would violate local, state, or Federal law's rules & regulations. Second where a land owner/care taker doesn't want a physical cache placed. 2. A Virtual would be the counterpart to a "EARTHCACHE" in that an earthcache relates back to some physical/natural item to the planet earth. A Virtual would relate back to something that is "Man-Made" that is of some importance either locally, state, country or even to the planet. Examples of this would be something historical. Historical landmarks, markers etc.. It could relate as well to something of other importance. Example being a big NFL Stadium... In Dallas TExas... this would be the NEW Dallas Cowboys Stadium. Either way. The location MUST be of some SIGNIFICANT Importance to the community. Ie... Virtuals couldn't be placed at Wally World, Or similar. 3. Logging a Virtual should follow the same idea that having a puzzle on a Mystery cache would be. Logging a virtual would have to be shown by the CO that it is possible to obtain the information to log this cache from the actual GPS location/coordinates of the Virtual. Without entering a business, etc... Logging of a Virtual should also ALWAYS be allowed by simply taking & posting the pic of the geocacher, the GPS at the posted GPS coordinates with the "Proof" of location in the background. The geocacher should have the choice between posting the photo, OR emailing the answers required. Those are the 3 main things I would like to see. There could be other "Guidelines" as well for Virtuals. But at least these 3. One other thing to note. Is all other guidelines that apply to other geocaches would still apply to Virtuals as well. TGC

The HOA president of my HOA is hispanic and speaks spanish. He told me to use this... "NO BASURA" meaning... "NOT TRASH" & "NO MOLESTAR" meaning... "DO not molest" as in "Do not remove/move etc..." Then their is "Geocache Oficial" Official spelled the spanish way with one of those special characters for "Official Geocache" TGC

As most of us know. Geocaching.com is in the process of returning the Virtual Cache back to us. As I can tell, many of you are happy about this, and many of you are not. Either way they will soon be returning. Here is MY idea for the rules/guidelines around the new Virtual cache. IMHO this would be the best solution to keep the majority of geocachers happy. Both those who support the idea of bringing Virtuals back, and to a few of those who don't want them back. Here is the list... (My Idea) 1. Virtuals would ONLY be allowed where a PHYSICAL cache can NOT be placed for any reason. Exmaples of this, where a physical cache would violate local, state, or Federal law's rules & regulations. Second where a land owner/care taker doesn't want a physical cache placed. 2. A Virtual would be the counterpart to a "EARTHCACHE" in that an earthcache relates back to some physical/natural item to the planet earth. A Virtual would relate back to something that is "Man-Made" that is of some importance either locally, state, country or even to the planet. Examples of this would be something historical. Historical landmarks, markers etc.. It could relate as well to something of other importance. Example being a big NFL Stadium... In Dallas TExas... this would be the NEW Dallas Cowboys Stadium. Either way. The location MUST be of some SIGNIFICANT Importance to the community. Ie... Virtuals couldn't be placed at Wally World, Or similar. 3. Logging a Virtual should follow the same idea that having a puzzle on a Mystery cache would be. Logging a virtual would have to be shown by the CO that it is possible to obtain the information to log this cache from the actual GPS location/coordinates of the Virtual. Without entering a business, etc... Logging of a Virtual should also ALWAYS be allowed by simply taking & posting the pic of the geocacher, the GPS at the posted GPS coordinates with the "Proof" of location in the background. The geocacher should have the choice between posting the photo, OR emailing the answers required. Those are the 3 main things I would like to see. There could be other "Guidelines" as well for Virtuals. But at least these 3. One other thing to note. Is all other guidelines that apply to other geocaches would still apply to Virtuals as well. TGC

I have "Templates" of my homemade stickers that I use for spanish/english for the labels I use. I also have the templates in Traditional & New Chinese. As they call it. I don't know if thats cantonese or Mandarin or both. If you would like that template for an Avery 8663 sticker I have it. Just let me know. I have it for both the Traditional Chinese and New Chinese. Sorry no Hindi. I do have Arabic, & Hebrew as well. The translations are the following phrases. "Official Geocache", "Do Not Remove", "Not Trash", "Owner" TGC

I will do more research. Just would be nice if geocaching.com did it. Much easier. Currently I am making stickers using my laserprinter on so called weather resistant labels made by Avery. They work and last for a little while. They are not the same quality as those that geocaching.com have available. Nor do my homemade stickers last as long or as well as the official geocaching.com ones. The price quote I listed above were for the same style sticker. Ie weather resistant vinyl sticker with weather reistant glue backing and the proffesional based weather resistant ink. From Office Depot you can buy Avery branded as well as a few other brans of "Bumper" stickers. They seem to work ok for a little while, Yet while the sticker quality itself lasts a nice long time. The ink/toner printing from using your laser or even ink jet printer doesn't last more than a couple of months before fading away. I have looked into seeing if I could get specialty toner &/or ink cartridges for this. But apparently they don't make those. Ie... FYI... You can get toner cartidges and inkjet cartridges that will print on RICE paper & are EDIBLE. The toner & inks are made out of squid ink, & thus when printed on rice paper both become edible. This is whats being used when you see cakes with photos on them & other food items with photos on them. The squid ink cartridges and toner along with rice paper isn't cheap! LOL TGC

I never meant to imply that MOST muggles were hispanic. If thats the way you read it. Then my sincerest apologies. What I was trying to say is this. A geocache, with a spanish language sticker on it, will be LESS likely to be muggled by a spanish speaking individual because they will be able to read the spanish language sticker and thus know what this container is. A Geocache. If this individual that only speaks & understands spanish comes across a geocache container that only has an english language sticker on it. Then they would NOT be able to know that it is a geocache & to leave it alone. I will make this statement again though. My wifes geocache that was muggled 4 times within about 3 weeks, STOPPED getting muggled once we placed spanish language stickers on it. The cache is hidden in a location that is frequented by landscaping crews in the summer at least once a week if not more. The Majority of landscaping crews here in the Dallas, TX area employ more hispanic individuals that speak & understand only spanish. That is a fact, Good or bad. It isn't my fault if the facts show that most landscaping crews in Dallas are in fact hispanic. TGC P.S.... AS far as letting the caretaker/Landowner know about the geocache They do. They have told the landscaping crews multiple times. However, the employees of such crews are NEVER the same & the "Supervisor" of the landscaping crews forgets. Even when the landscaping crew was busted by INS for hiring illegals & the HOA (Home Owners Association) found a new landscaping company. The problem still existed. It was the PRESIDENT of the HOA that suggested that my wife & I PUT a spanish lanugage label on the geocache in the first place. BTW I am a member of this HOA & the president of this HOA is hispanic himself. Like I said.. I NEVER meant to imply that most muggles were hispanic. All I was saying is that there are alot of people in our area that understand ONLY the spanish language. That having a spanish language sticker would REDUCE the chances of a geocache being muggled simply because someone who only speaks & understands spanish would be able to know what that container is. If it just has an english language label only then the spanish speaking individual would have NO idea what it was he had in his hands. Again my apologies... I was never trying to imply that most muggles in our area were hispanic.

I would have but heres the deal... I took a smale geocaching.com sticker in to a business that could do them. I took as a sample. The small one that geocaching.com sells for the small caches. To have one of those printed up. Exactly like that except in Spanish or even Spanish/English sticker, would require a MINIUMUM order of 7,500 stickers. At 50 cents a sticker. (geocaching.com sells the small stickers for $1.25 each)... 7,500 of those stickers would be $3,7500!! NOT including sales tax & the $250 "Setup" charge. (Total of $4,000). One I don't have the funds for an investment like this, with no promise of being able to sell off that many stickers and even break even in my costs. I only need maybe 250 of these stickers at MOST! (I have currently 150 caches) So for ME to undertake a venture like this would be pointless. I don't even know where I could go to sell them, without having to pay an "Additional" fee to someone for selling them etc... So yes... I could.. but for me it ISN'T financially feasible. One other thing to note.... COPYRIGHT LAW.... I would NOT be able to produce these stickers with the geocaching logo on them without paying some kind of "Fee" to geocaching.com. That would add to the expense as well. As the "LOGO" that geocaching.com uses is in fact COPYRIGHTED! The stickers are kind of pointless without the geocaching.com logo. TGC

My next milestone is 150 consecutive days caching with at least 1 cache found for those last 150 days. I will achieve that on January 30th, 2011. (Assuming of course I can get at least one cache for the next 6 days) My next milestone after that will be reaching 2000 cache finds, as well as hopefully hitting the 250 cache callendar days milestone as well. That I should achieve sometime between Feb 14th, and Feb 28th. I hope. LOL TGC How can you hit 150 consecutive days caching on January 30th and 250 by the end of February? Time travel? Not in the same year.... I have cached everday, non-stop since Septermber 3rd, 2010. January 30th, 2011 will make my 150th day consecutive day straight caching. Thinking in terms of a 366 day callender. Placing an "X" on each day cached on that callendar. (No year for the callendar). Around the End of Februrary I will have "X"'d off 250 of those days on the callendar. Take a look at my stat's page and maybe it will it make more sense. TGC

My next milestone is 150 consecutive days caching with at least 1 cache found for those last 150 days. I will achieve that on January 30th, 2011. (Assuming of course I can get at least one cache for the next 6 days) How will I celebrate? I will order me some supplies to make some more geocache containers. As part of the enjoyment I get from geocaching.com is using my CREATIVITY, to create and produce some very nice & interesting geocaching containers. My next milestone after that will be reaching 2000 cache finds, as well as hopefully hitting the 250 cache callendar days milestone as well. That I should achieve sometime between Feb 14th, and Feb 28th. I hope. LOL TGC

This is to all of you who currently BUY official geocaching.com stickers to place on the geocaches that you hide. Or to those of you who don't... but would if they did what I am requesting. I would like to know how many of you would buy the following types of stickers, IF they were made available to purchase from geocaching.com. I have allready suggested to the girl that works at geocaching.com who processes the orders & she emailed back & thought my ideas were great. However, 6 months later they still don't offer what I suggested. I live in Texas. Here in Texas there is a significant population of hispanic speaking people. Most of the landscaping, and other type jobs similar to those are filled by the hispanic popluation. I have placed quite a few caches in my area. I have found that WHEN I DON'T have some type of sticker or notice on the geocache in SPANISH, that these caches tend to get "muggled". In fact a cache of my wife got muggled 4 times until I put a SPANISH language geocache sticker on it. Once I did that.. Presto, the cache has now gone almost a year without being muggled again. Go figure. These spanish geocaching stickers are ones I printed on my computer myself. Although they are NOT the quality that you get from the stickers you order from geocaching.com. (Ie, they aren't weather resistant & waterproof like the ones you get from geocaching.com). So my suggestion as I mentioned to the girl at geocaching.com was simply to offer the same geocaching stickers they they have now, in SPANISH as well. They have them in German allready, so why not Spanish??? I think SPANISH language stickers for here in the USA would be of big value and I am willing to bet, that those of you who do buy geocaching.com stickers allready would probably order SPANISH stickers as well. ESPIECIALLY... if your in CA, AZ, NM, TX, UT where I know for a fact there are HUGE populations of hispanic speaking people. The nice thing I really like about Groundspeak is that they keep a close eye on what is going on in these forums. Unlike many other companies. So if they see that WE users would like to have Official Geocaching.com geocache stickers in spanish for our geocaches, then maybe, just maybe they will offer these to us. My other question... is how many of you would like to see these "Green" geocaching.com stickers offered in a "tan" or "Sand" like colour? Since not everywhere in the world is "Green" and some GREAT hiding spots would be better suited to a "Tan" or "Sand" like colour sticker instead of green. What do you think? Good ideas? Bad? Would you buy them if they offered them? Do you buy their stickers now? TGC

I agree DNF's are a very important part of the game. Problem is... Not everyone logs DNF's, or have the incentive to do so. I know many times I do log DNF's and other times I do not. When I don't there are varying reasons as to why I DON'T log a DNF. I mainly don't log DNF's when I don't feel I put in an honest clear effort to find the cache. Either Just spend a couple of minutes searching for a cache that probably should take longer etc... For this... if you make DNF's look like to much a bad thing on ones profile etc... Then it will be just an incentive to STOP logging DNF's. DNF's aren't a bad thing to log. Especaily if a cache is missing. Many times but not always when a Cache has a large number of DNF's thats a good sign it may have gone missing. But like I said NOT ALWAYS... It could mean that this cache is just significantly harder too. TGC

IMHO.... withint 30 days after a NA log, one of the following should happen. 1. CO fixes cache, or posts a log stating that they are aware of the issue & will be correcting the issue in a reasonable time frame &/or include why there is/will be a delay in fixing the cache. 2. CO archives cache. 3. Prime Reviewer issues/logs an official "30 day notice" for the CO to fix or archive. For any caches that this doesn't happen with.. I forward the GC # on to the powers that exist through the "Contact Groundspeak" and let them handle the issue as they see fit. As far as issuing NA logs. Thats not an easy thing to say when or when one shouldn't be issued. As a general rule, any cache that hasn't been found in at least 6 months with numerous DNF's & other logs citing ongoing issues where at the SAME time CO has not done anything to fix the cache &/or the CO has not logged onto Geocaching.com in the last 6 months or longer. For me... Exceptions to this do apply. In regards to issuing an NA log, one would/should be fair, just & understanding of the issues, because exceptions do apply. TGC

Just remember, put a rubber seal on it, or something so it's waterproof. Check it before you place it. The biggest pet peeve I think the majority of cachers have, is the wet log syndrome! TGC

Here is one other thing, again regardless of cache size. Is that except for a VERY FEW exceptions. NO container will last "Forever" and will eventually need to be replaced. Some "Bad" containers aren't so bad, they just don't last as long as the better ones obviously. In which case they need to be fixed &/or replaced more often. Of course as we all know they don't get replaced when they should. Then their are containers that will ALWAYS be bad, because they will leak water no matter what you do. They shouldn't be used at all, unless the location you are placing them is going to be free from any direct contact with water. Sadly, for whatever reason people think that lamp post skirts will protect things from getting wat because it's covered. People who think that DON'T understand the properties of water. So why don't lamp post skirts keep things dry since it covers it from rain? It's because the lampost gets wet & starts getting water on it. It simply gathers more raindrops and momentum as it "Rolls" down the pole. Think of your car windshield. The raindrop at the top, picks up the raindrops it hits as it rolls down your window. The drop gets bigger and bigger and bigger and goes even faster. A big light post will ahve alot. Thuse the water comes down the pole... enters the gap between the skirt and the post.. and presto.. their is a RIVER under the skirt. Watch the skirt of a lamp post in the rain sometime. You will see what I mean. IT IS possible to use a Magnetic key holder in an LPC hide and keep both dry. This is a RARE occurance though. It requires a skirt that is capable of holding a magnet. NOt all will, some skirts are made of alluminum, or even plastic. It takes a big skirt that is tall as well. And You stick the magnet key holder to the underside top part of the skirt. Not on the base. This won't last for long though. Why? Because eventually. LAZY geocachers will come along and WON'T replace it like you originally placed it and will just toss it back under the skirt willy nilly. For my LPC's... I ALWAYS use nothing but a waterproofed matchstick holder, or my specially modified large pill bottles. (These aren't the normal brown pill bottles you get at wally world). It's not hard to make a matchstick tube magnetic either. A good rare earth magnet & some superglue, to the inside bottom of the matchstick and your ready to go. I ordered 500 of them for .50 a piece & still have more than enough left. They are the orange matchstick tubes wally world & Bass pro shops, CAbellas sells for $2-$3. Exceppt for one location when seems to be an issue for some strange reason. Which may end up getting archived. The Tubes have never gotten the log wet. Except when cachers don't close the lid correctly. Thats one other thing too... NOT everytime a log gets wet is it the fault of the container. Sometimes geocachers don't replace lids correctly, or tightly enough TGC

My wife has family in the PA area. We travel over 15,000 miles or more a year in travel. I just shot off an email as listed on their website to the City council, letting them know how important GEOCACHING is for TOURISM AND TOURISTS. I simply informed them, that when I am in the area, that I will simply make sure I bypass their town & thus they won't get any of my tourist dollars. Hotel, food, gas etc... I will simply process to the next town so that I don't spend any of my money in their town. If they get enough out of town tourists telling them that they will simply bypass their town. They may think otherwise. Then again... Who knows. Remember this country is a capatalistic society. We get to VOTE with HOW we spend our dollars. TGC

isn't that a contradiction of terms? Not at all. Next time I make one & get ready to place it. I will take a pic of it & post it. By waterproofed.. I mean the log will stay dry Plastic as that is what the container is made out of, so it won't leak water, nor will it rust. Magnetic, because somewhere on the thing is a magnet that can hold it to something made of iron. TGC

You mentioned that powertrails are micros. Since I haven't honestly found to many powertrails, I can't say if thats entirely true or not. What I can say is this. I have 3 Powertrails that are: 1. Include Regular & small sized caches. 2. Aren't just traditionals, but also include Mystery, & multi caches as well. One of the powertrails which I am still currently working on. (I have 20 more caches to place) Is really being setup to be mostly a MYSTERY powertrail. 10 caches placed, and 1 is a small, but of the 20 that remain to be placed. There will be 2 regular sized, and 5 more small sized. Of the 20 remaining. At least 15 of those caches will be multi's or Mystery's. In regards to one powertrail of mine. While each cache individually doesn't really take you anywhere special... the Powertrail itself ENDS at a location that I DO want you to go to and discover. At that location another geocacher has placed quite a few caches as well. The POINT of THAT powertrail WAS Where the ENTIRE trail took you. Hopefully along the way, you were challenged by the individual caches themselvs as they included caches of several sizes, of the Mystery & multi type, not just Traditionals. However... I can't deny... there are alot of geocachers out there who don't take the time and effort with any of their cache containers & placement either. For whatever factor you geocache for. (Search, Kid, Swag, Where it takes me, Numbers,etc..) TGC

Why? What makes them special? Yeah I would like to know too! LOL.... Honestly, some of my micro hides are specifically made for those who want to make "numbers" runs. Most however are not. In any event, I would like to think I take great care in producing quality & well camoed Micros. Most are all painted with multi-tone paint to match the location it is being hidden in. I don't currently have any nano's, and the micros I do hide are all very clever containers. Or so I have been told many times. Some of my hides are MORE about the RETRIEVAL factor then they are about finding it. Eash to find, but you have to use your brain on how to succesfully retrieve it. (Check out my fishing series) Except for one micro I have hidden none of them are needle in a haystack type hide. I will soon be making adjustments and turning that current needle in a haystack hide into a night cache where a UV (Black Light) will be required. The whole reason for this thread, is that I can make changes to any current micro hide to make it better, and any micros in the future will be quality hides. Since for me, I am partly about the numbers when I go geocaching sometimes. I will always have some caches for those numbers hunters. But just cause your a numbers hunter doesn't mean that they will be easy! TGC P.S. As a whole.... here is my take on micro's/nano's.... I too hate having to pull the log out and put the log back into nano's. Thank god for my "Pocket Leatherman" on being able to pull the log out. I have yet to come across a nano that wasn't placed on something man made. ie no nano's in the bushes etc... Most were well hidden and a nice challenge to find. Although some were hidden in a lame manner which made it good for those who want the "numbers". I do remember one nano, searced for 10 min, before I realized it was right in front of my face! I haven't seen a problem (yet) with nano's leaking. Thats one nice thing. Micro's... I for the most part like them. Just like with any other size cache though (Other than maybe nano's currently) there are some very bad containers. Sadly though, I do think that in general Micro sized containers hold the record for having the most "BAD" containers. ie 35mm film canisters as an example. I will say though, that I do not and will never use a 35mm film canister as a container for any cache I have allready hidden or will hide in the future. Other than the occasional BAD container, most micros that I have come across have always met one of my 4 geocaching factors. I geocache for the "Numbers" factor, the "Search" factor & the "Where it takes me" factor, & the "Retrieve" factor. I love all the feedback and the reponses that have been given in the thread. Thank you... keep it up. I want to hear more. I do enjoy placing a cache as much as I do finding one. Even when I place a cache for the "numbers" factor, I still try to make it at least a little challenging. I am also always looking for better ways to improve the caches. So thanks! I typed up a reply to this post earlier but once again the system seems to have eaten it. Where do those posts go? Anyway the gist of it was that I don't doubt that you hide some interesting caches. However, when someone says so&so or such&such is the best I'd like to know why? What is the special quality that sets so&so or such&such apart from the rest? Hell, I may want to copy it. Or bottle it and sell it for a profit if I can. Oh I am sure you do. I didn't take any offense to it at all. I am curious as to why he has enjoyed them as well. Gives good insight as you say to repeat the positive parts of those caches. TGC BTW if I hadn't said before. I am not fond of 35mm cans either.

Cool! Go for it. Would love to know what kind of response you get back from gc.com. Just for laughs. TGC